From Breast Cancer Action: To Estrogen, or Not to Estrogen?

Yazmin · April 2011

Estrogen and breast cancer: science behind the headlinesPosted on April 8, 2011 by Caitlin C.Earlier this week, a new report by the Women’s Health Initiative (WHI) took many by surprise. Mainstream media coverage of the report’s findings suggested that estrogen (without combination with progestin) could reduce breast cancer risk in women who have undergone hysterectomy. The Seattle Post-Intelligencer, for instance, reported, “Estrogen lowers risks of breast cancer, heart attack”. The reality isn’t so simple. As usual, we must look past the headlines to understand what this new information really means – and doesn’t mean.We agree with the National Women’s Health Network (NWHN): Claims that estrogen will reduce breast cancer risk in women who’ve undergone hysterectomy are misleading.The WHI study involved postmenopausal women who’d undergone hysterectomy and found no association between estrogen use (for a median of 5.9 years) and risk of coronary heart disease, deep vein thrombosis, stroke, hip fracture, colorectal cancer or total mortality. But although dozens of other studies have shown a link between long term use of estrogen and increased risk of breast cancer, this study also indicated a decreased risk of breast cancer that persisted through the time of follow up.The contradictory findings about breast cancer must be explored and answered before estrogens are touted as a means to reduce breast cancer risk. When we look at the total body of evidence about estrogen use and breast cancer, we agree with the NWHN that it’s premature for women to make decisions about how to reduce risk based on these results alone.We encourage a deeper look into these findings and we will continue to monitor new reports. As always, we want everyone to know about the science behind the headlines.

Anonymous · April 2011

hi yazmin,

please take note there are good estrogen and bad estrogen in the same way there is good/bad bacteria and good/bad cholesterol.

so, before we dismiss this study all together.. let us read more and discuss..

one of the reasons why I agreed that my mother not take Tamoxifen or other endocrine theraphies to supprese the production of estrogen... is because our endocrinologist.. informed us that good estrogen is indeed needed by our body-- what we wanted to remove from the body is bad estrogen..

let me read through your links-- and provide my opinions later..

Anonymous · April 2011

aha! now I know-- the estrogen they are talking about in this study is not the natural estrogen produced by the body (or the ovaries) since these women in the study have no ovaries anyway and are post-menopausal

they are talking about PREMarin-- the estrogen derived from horse's urine -- developed by wyeth.. it is synthetic estrogen..! they are prescribed to women who have had surgical removal of ovaries to help them address hot flushes and vaginal dryness...

Anonymous · April 2011

I would agree with you that this new clinical study is supporting Premarin-- a CCE developed by Wyeth..this is really quite misleading. (remove ovaries to suppresss estrogen-- then add synthetic estrogen to address the SE of suppressing natural estrogen)

I also know that there are studies linking Premarin (syntheic estrogen) to higher risk of breast cancer..

be careful though about dismissing the benefits of good estrogen metabolites produced by our bodies naturally.

we want to have more of the natural protective estrogen metabolites (2OH) and less of the carcinogenic/active estrogen metabolites such as 16OH and 4OH.

Yazmin · April 2011

Hi, Nanay:

You wrote:

".............please take note there are good estrogen and bad estrogen in the same way there is good/bad bacteria and good/bad cholesterol.

so, before we dismiss this study all together.. let us read more and discuss..."

Indeed, I received this email this morning from Breast Cancer Action, and I am posting it for information. I am aware of the good/bad estrogen debate, and I expected some thoughts about that issue.

I agree with you: let's read more on this subject.......

Anonymous · April 2011

There is a lot to read on this subject but almost no one reads it. Most continue to want to believe estrogen is bad, depite the evidence. I've been taking estradiol and natural progesterone for years. Yes, I'm ER/PR+. My oncologist is onboard with it and has many bc pts taking bioidenticals.

I don't want to debate this subject.The debate is completely settled in the medical literature, just not the newspapers.

I only discuss hormones via PM because it upsets those who have made up their mind and are completely invested in their hormone blocking strategy. Good luck to all.

PS. There are many on BCO quietly taking bioidenticals. We don't want to be flamed so most are quiet about it or move to a different forum.

Anonymous · April 2011

hi lucy,

you wrote " I only discuss hormones via PM because it upsets those who have made up their mind and are completely invested in their hormone blocking strategy"

I really hope that no one gets upset over this discussion. I hope that we can support each other too in whatever mode of treatment we have chosen. if in the process of discussing or sharing what we have been doing-- we end up more informed and then choose a different path later on-- at least we will be more at peace with our decision.. (e.g. my mother agreed to take Herceptin instead of going 100% alternative or at least for her to take Tamoxifen than going all 100% alternative for estrogen dominance)

I guess between my mother and me.. she is more at peace with her decision than I do.. that is why I am in this thread..and investing time to research, post and dialogue..

so please I hope this will not be another thread for flaming and arguments (from either sides).

Anonymous · April 2011

hi lucy,

your estradiol and progeterone-- is that the cream form? you mentioned bioidenticals as well.. do you know from which these are derived from.. i see that estradiol bioidenticals will probably be helpful as it is being converted to 2OH (protective estrogen metabolite)

my mother's endocrinologist said-- he might also prescribe bioidenticals depending on the results of her 2nd urinary estrogen metabolite test.. (after 1 year of taking I3C/DIM)

by the way here is an image that depicts..what metabolites estradiol and estorene are converted into (either 2OH or 16OH) and how DIM helps by converting both estradiol/estorene to 2OH (the protective estrogen metabolite)

Anonymous · April 2011

Thank you for the diagram, Nanay.

To answer your question, I've taken estrogen in both the cream and oils forms over the years as well as the commercially available Estraderm patch. I've only taken natural P in cream form. I use testosterone cream occasionally also.

Good luck to you and your Mom

Yazmin · April 2011

Thanks for the diagram, Nanay.

rgiuff · April 2011

I have a question for those of you who are taking DIM or 13C. I've seen many are using these as natural AIs. Wondering if, by eliminating the bad estrogen, does your body feel the same as on AIs, with all the side effects of dried up tissues, joint pains, etc.. Or because you are keeping the good estrogen, do you avoid all the bad side effects and feel normal?

dlb823 · April 2011

Rose, from what I've read here, reactions seem to vary. Several have reported no issues, but mine have been so bad on I3C that I'm currently taking a little break from it and several other things I've been taking. It had gotten to the point where my fingers especially were just so painful that I was constantly massaging them. After about 2-3 weeks off I3C, they're fine.

In the past, when I'd tried to add Grape Seed Extract on top of the I3C, I couldn't do it due to the increased joint pain. When you think about it, anything that reduces estrogen is going to create those "aging" issues. But at least, as far as I understand it, they can't cause blood clots and bone loss the way the pharmaceuticals do. Deanna

Anonymous · April 2011

rgiuff and deanna,

my mother is taking a combination of I3C/DIM. she does not have those SEs that Deanna is saying.. actually there was a time when she stopped I3C/DIM for a month (because our endocrinologist ran out of stock)-- that she felt incomplete without it.. not sure if it is psychological.. she did not have any physical SE on or off I3D/DIM though..

a lot of other women seems to prefer DIM though..

for both I3C/DIM-- I really think that since we are protecting the good estrogen (protective ones), we do not have aging related issues that are common to those who use estrogen suppressors.

Member_of_the_Club · April 2011

These findings only apply to a very small, specific group of women who have had their uteruses removed and don't take progesterone along with estrogen because they don't have to worry about endometrial cancer. It is a surprising finding and it will be interesting to see how it plays out but for most women, this same large-scale study has found that hormone replacement therapy does increase the risk of breast cancer. So i agree with everyone that this is far more complicated than estrogen=good.

fairy49 · April 2011

I don't quietly take bio-identicals I am loud and proud! Kiss

painterly · April 2011

I have tried a few times to take DimPlus that I bought in the health food shop...after a few days of the supplements, I got bone pain in my left hip and knee,,,then I stop the supplement and the pain disappeared..This has happened about four times. I am beginning to think that DimPlus is not for me. Grape Seed Extract had the same affect on me. I see Deanna above has had similiar problems.

Anonymous · April 2011

hi painterly,

what is the dosage of DIM on DimPlus?

painterly · April 2011

The dosage of DIMPlus is 100mgs, to take 2x daily. (I only took one per day and the bone pain began at day 3.)

From Breast Cancer Action: To Estrogen, or Not to Estrogen?

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