Looking for Alternative to Tamoxifen

hi bc86210,

try to explore I3C/DIM or Myomin..  first get your self tested on

Urinary Estrogen Metabolites-- refer here

or the Saliva Hormone Tests

note that I3C/DIM or Myomin works differently from Tamoxifen...

your estrogen receptors act like a glue to which estrogen sticks to. Tamoxifen acts by binding tiself to the estrogen receptors so that the estrogen cannot stick to it.

I3C/DIM/Myomin balances ensures that you are metabolizing estrogen towards the protective (good) estrogen metabolite..

how specific is your ER+/PR+ diagnosis-- can you let me know the percentage??

note that there are good/bad estrogen in the same way there is good/bad cholesterol or good/bad bacteria

2OH = good estrogen metabolite

16OH = bad estrogen metabolite (carcinogenic)

DIM/I3C/Myomin helps by metabolizing estrogen towards 2OH (good estrogen)

when making a decision to forego tamoxifen please do so with the guidance of your oncologist or an integrative medicine practitioner..

in Singapore- we have endocrinologists who orders the urinary metabolic tests-- and analyze the results for us-- then prescribe I3C/DIM or Myomin 

a lady named Steph-- who Ive met in this board also told me that there is an ob/gynae practicing integrative medicine who also orders these tests and prescribe I3C/DIM or Myomin.

however, both of these doctors-- would not really say you forego Tamoxifen-- as it is against their ethics to do so...(though they would say they are not a fan of Tamoxifen)

you need to find registred practicitoners in your area who can order these tests and prescribe I3C/DIM or Myomin to you..

Hi

What supplements did Dr. Magaziner put you on?

I've heard of him but don't know anyone who went to him.

I lasted three weeks on tamoxifen.  Week three landed me in the ER with such severe vertigo, I thought I was having one of the dreaded "strokes" from tamox due to blood clot risks.  The dizziness lasted for two weeks after I stopped the drug and was accompanied by severe SEVERE panic - all day long.  I was unable to function, eat or sleep.  I have never had such a thing happen to  me before.  I was on three different medications to try to control it  (again, 41 years old - never had such a thing before...)  I had brain fog to such a bad extent that I would forget who I was in the middle of the night...I now understand how alzheimer's patients feel.   

That being said, I did have post partum depression and pretty bad PMS every month (crying and brain fog) so I think I must be very hormone sensitive. 

I decided to ditch the tamoxifen and my ND tweaked my supplements program (been going to him for three years, even before the BC.)  I ditched the lexapro (I know, dangerous to do cold turkey, but I was gaining weight on it and I was starving all night long and unable to sleep) and ditched the ativan an xanax.  I went only with neurotransmitter and seratonin natural support that he gave me.  Within 48 hours, literally, it turned around and I went back to normal.

My oncologist is extremely unhappy with me. 

I went to an osteopath and he's doing hormone testing on me as well as a thyroid panel.  Progesterone cream (natural) is very protective of breast cells, from the bad estrogen, so having your hormonest tested isn't a bad idea.  Meanwhile my nutritionist has me on several different things.  I'm on a cellular support including coQ10, spanish black radish for "drainage", lots of B vitamins, one in the form of flaxseed, a turmeric/green tea/rosemary supplement (turmeric has a lot of good research behind it for bc!), an iodine supplement (thyroid disfunction and BC are related according to some research), and a powdered sprout shake called Total Green (you can get it on line, Nutri-west makes it.)  For a while I was on ganoderma and shiitake mushrooms but I'm on a break from that for a little while.  I'm now off of the anti-anxiety supplements I was taking and I've had no withdrawl. 

I exercise and really watch my diet (blew it this weekend.)  But I am staying away from red meat and sugar and wheat-- the later two can tax the pancreas with insulin spikes.  The pancreas has something to do with secreting enzymes that can attack cancer cells and I can't remember what it is.

Yes, many people skip the tamox . I would be dishonest if I told you I feel confident that I am and will remain cancer free.  I get scared almost every day.  But tamoxifen is not the magic bullet they make it out to be -the side effects are not minor.  I was prepared for hot flashes; I was not prepared for a total 100 percent upheaval to my entire life.  I told my doctor I'd rather have more chemo that tamox and I was serious; the tamoxifen was worse than the chemo in my case.

My friend helped me make the decision when she asked "What's the worst that can happen if you don't take the tamox?"  My answer was "metastic BC" (of course.)  She said "Well, what's the worst that can happen ON the drug."  I rattled off my list of symptoms, along with the risk for blood clots, liver cancer, uterine cancer, etc."  She said "AND you could still have mets....right?"  Yes.  Women on tamoxifen DO have recurrence -it DOES fail.  Otherwise it would be considered a "cure" and it's not.  You had a small tumor, stage 1 with no lymph node involvement.  If you check Lifemath's website, calculate your odds for a recurrence with or without.  I bet it's around 2-3%. 

You have to come to peace with your own decision--for me that peace was in taking back my own health into my own hands and feeling like I'm "Doing" something -not just skipping the tamox.  I would recommend yoru reading Shane Ellison's articles on his work within the pharmaceutical company on the drug tamoxifen and why he quit his job (He was a big pharma chemist.)  Google his name and tamox and you'll pull up his story. 

It's not an easy decision; cancer is so awful because you just never KNOW.  But you have to come to that place of peace about your own decision.  

Erika - have you tried natural progesterone cream?  My ND has me on Ver Vita's balancing cream.  If you read the book "What Your Doctor may Not Tell you about Breast Cancer" it goes into how natural topical progesterone is very beneficial.

I have lots of hot flashes also --chemo put me into menopause (can't say that I'm upset - my periods were so bad!)  The progesterone cream helps.  Even if you are PR positive it is beneficial - I found some studies on it a while back - if you Google it there is lots of info.  

Clamitycal - I'm looking into progesterone creams and the book you recommended. Thank you!

TonLee - Normally, if a women went through hysterectomy doctors will immediately put them on hormones, but because of my cancer history my onco will not put me on any hormone medication. She said that hysterectomy acts like tamoxifen (lacking te body of estrogen) therefore I don't need the 5 years of either tamoxifen or arimidex which is great but all the hot flashes and side effects of surgical menopause is unbearable. Now I'm looking into every possible natural alternative.

Yes - we call them hot flushes over here

Thanks!!

Diagnosed 2 Breast lumps 3mm - grade 2, 4mm 10mm spread grade 1 no nodes, no family history.  56% re occurrence, havent been told by oncolog about % if not taking Tamo, but have had problems namely very dry skin, occassional flushes.  How long on Tamo before some symtoms settle down, or do they stay the whole 5 years.  No interested if my % is slight without it, and would consider comming off them, to many nasty stories about.

Heard flaxseed oil with cottage cheese, wheatgrass, low fat diet, no sugars (or little), organic as possible, grapefruits, figs, plenty of veg.

Vitamins C in abundance apparently

Best to all

Pinkie

Tamoxifen does NOT remove estrogen form your body; it is a selective estrogen receptor modulator..did you know that it is prescribed for some women as an infertility treatment?

And even after removal of uterus and more specifically, ovaries, your body still makes estrogen via your adrenal glands - it is converted by an enzyme called aromatase.This is why you still need an AI  after menopause, whether surgical or natural, if your bc was ER+.

There seems to be some misunderstanding about how these drugs work.

CYP2D6 testing -- for those who wants to test how your body responds to Tamoxifen

hi MOC,

can you explain the rationale of studying CYP2D6 enzymic activitity and differentiating

- ultra metabolizers

- extensive metabolizers

- intermediate metabolizers

- slow metabolizers

what is the premise for categorizing women amongs those 4 categories?

and why did the group who conducted the study-- decided to pull it back =?

jsut askin.

This metabolism test made a big stir a few years ago and a few oncs embraced it but most were hesitant and subsequent studies failed to support its utility.  There have been a bazillion threads about this and I really don't want to get into it because it just isn't a useful issue.  I think you should be careful about finding something on google and just throwing it out there.