My Fellow Deletees and The Cyberbullied Sisters
Comments
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Hi Nicki .. I'm so glad to see you. Sending you a big hug.
love ya,
Bren
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Chemosabi: Please note we (the regulars of this thread) usually don't fight or even get hostile with each other normally. It's when troublemakers from "outside" come on here particularly to start a battle that you would see the problems. I really don't like it that the troubles that come from outside can give "us" a reputation of not getting along with each other. I think we have a very good and strong bond here. The next time you think you see a "fight" going on, please take notice of how it started and who is doing it. We may be defending one of our own and get involved but the fight usually isn't with each other, imo. We have great respect for each other and their opinions.
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deleted by sunflowers
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((((Nicki)))).
I think I understand where you are coming from. There's a lot that is a whole lot more important that bickering and bullying. The problem is that the bullying and deleting is still going on, just as it did in the days when you spent a lot of time on the board. And now it's not just happening in the social threads but it's being carried over into the threads where women are trying to offer support. So the reason for this thread was to try to find the solution. BCO needs to make some technical changes to this board - hopefully just one or two really easy/inexpensive changes will be all that's necessary to eliminate 95% of the problems. When that happens (please please let's get these changes made already!), then this thread can disappear and this issue won't need to be raised again. And then those of us who want to offer support and those who need support can be here without concerns about being stalked and bullied and deleted.
xoxoxo, Beese.
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Beese hi to you. Haven't talked to you for along time. You understand exactly what I was trying to say. The best way to feel love and peace is to avoid any threads that cause anxiety and stress.
Chemosabil
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Chemosabi, we have never met, but I am glad you are posting here.
At first, I conceived of this as just a fundraising thread for moderation improvements. Then, all hell broke loose right here. I tried to "keep the peace" or "sweep things under the rug" (depending on your point of view) but failed miserably. Now, I am glad, in a way, because this thread is both an appeal for funds to improve our system of checks and balances and, by the looks of it, also a place where the need for those reforms is felt and discussed.
I do remember reading about your story and I am very sorry about what happened to you. I am also sorry to hear about how ill you are. Hopefully, we can make cyberbullying at the very least a more difficult thing and less of a pervasive one here on BCO. I am here because I am sick of having my voice silenced by the deleters. I am also angry at what was happened to people like you and Beesie, whose biggest crime is that she likes to help others....it's never the bad people that get targeted.
Melissa, I was curious to know if you had an update for us on anything?
Also, folks, this is a fundraising thread, so if you have any pennies to give to this cause, much appreciated - as long as BCO acts on it.
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Athena: PENNIES?? PENNIES?? I have lots of "pennies" but they would cost a lot to mail. I am still working on a way to donate incognito (whatever). To be perfectly honest, I am especially waiting until I see if and when Melissa comes through on her part as to what she is doing about the changes to our thread. I know it is the weekend but this week I feel we should get an update so we can know we are not just being put on stall. Will be watching for any posts from Melissa.
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Mail a money order.
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1Athena1 wrote:
"....it's never the bad people that get targeted."
Please do explain who the "bad people" are.
I've seen many instances of people who have expressed intense feelings, and some who have even done things that they shouldn't have, but please tell me how you determine who is a bad person on these boards as opposed to a basically good person who may have done something you don't like.
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There are no bad people, just bad acts, by those people.
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Hey Chemosabi,
I dont hang out alot at the stage 4 threads anymore but I do post sometimes if I think I can help someone. I am so sorry to hear u r having such an awful time. You have always been one of the stronger of us and I so admire that. If I had what u do and I was strong enuff for surgery, I'd probly at least have the rod put in the leg. Since recovery time is so long and possibly painful for the vertebrae..I'm not sure I'd have that done right now. I just hate it that it has spread everywhere and all I can do is to tell u that I am praying for u. I hope you prove your docs wrong and that on March 3, 2012, you will be here laffing at them. This crap really is unforgiving and ruins lives. Those of us who are stage 4 cant take as many risks as others do such as trying a new supplement, diet etc etc. We are pretty much stuck with what is tried and true to be the best treatments. I remember the cyber bullying issue. Nicki..Its hard to let it go when it keeps happening to others. It was not outsiders who did it to me. If you have any suggestions I know I would luv to hear them and I bet Melissa would too. Nicki, feel free to PM me anytime. God bless, Mazy
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Chemosabi.. I've always liked your screen name and avatar. It is interesting to me how an image comes to define a person in cyberspace.
I kind of know where you are coming from. We stage 4 gals REALLY need the comfort and support this place offers and may not like to see it's intent or investment diverted from what is important to us. Bullying is a disease in itself that needs to be addressed all over our society. It's hard to imagine that people still bully in light of the enormity of a cancer diagnosis. Fortunately we who suffer to death are a relatively small subset here..(thank goodness), and can take comfort in the fact that many people still feel normal*.... YAY.
It is important to be happy and friendships make us happy.
* (that doesn't say much about the 'human condition' tho, does it?)
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There are over 70,000 topics in 67 forums and people want this thread removed .. why? There is plenty of support and comfort given all over these boards. I was pushed around and finally pushed off these boards in my First year of treatment by 'oldies'. Imagine what that is like when you are trying to still reconcile it all and come to find out that you have to contend with mind boggling behavior at the last place you'd imagine to find it. On top of everything else the stress and hurt brought about by your 'sisters' can be devestating. This isn't about stages. We all should be able to be supported and comforted and need this topic to stay until it is finally addressed. I was naive when I was dx'd four years ago today. I've learned that the internet is a great place for anonymity and that people can be who they want to be. In other words, things aren't always what they seem. Just because someone has breast cancer and is on a support board doesn't automatically make them nice. They are who they are and you will find every personality type on here. It's tricky to figure that out and read between the lines to find who is genuine. I was probably the first person abused by the new 'report this post' power by my 'sistahs' but I didn't go to the news. Maybe I should have because at the time nobody understood that someones posts that were removed by the 'community' could possibly be innocent .. it was assumed that if a post was deleted that the post must have violated rules of the board. I had a post removed on a support thread for a dying sister and another one where I was just saying hello. The content didn't matter. There were people who just didn't like me and found the power of that button. Although most of my posts were reinstated the automatic software did me in because it never removed all the strikes against me. After over 3 years of much heartache to more women then you know caused by the report power given anonymous crazies, it's high time this subject be given the attention it deserves until it is properly addressed.
Melissa, I too would like to know how the changes are coming along. Thanks!
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Athena's comments seem to imply that she thinks there are "bad people" who somehow deserve to be targeted. The attitude that there is an "us" and a "them" (who are somehow less than us) is how bullying starts.
In this forum, there is only a "we", and we all are equally qualified to participate here by having received a diagnosis of breast cancer. We each need to be aware of how inclusive or exclusive our words are of other women who have every bit as much "right" to be here as we do.
It is not okay to tell someone to go somewhere else, or to gloat when you think you've driven them away. Those things too are forms of bullying behavior.
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Cyberbullying isn't just a problem on BCO. It's a problem on lots of websites, and while we don't have any control about what is written elsewhere now or in the past, we can make some changes in how we post on BCO.
As Blah stated, I have been the target of cyberbullying in the past. It is very hurtful and not easily forgotten. It's best for my peace of mind to stay away from sites that don't moderate cyberbullying. And I'm not talking about someone voicing an opinion different than mine, I'm talking about outright bullying.
I too hope Melissa and the techs are working to solve the problem on BCO.
Bren
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I feel there is no reason to be mean and spiteful, regardless of whether you agree with the post or not. If I see a post that is mean or nasty, I will usually state my opinion that the post is mean. I do this instead of hitting the delete button.
I really feel if the deleters are listed, along with the reason for deleting, the bullying will decrease exponentially.
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Blue: I disagree with you. I think enough "bad" acts can turn a nice person into what "I" consider a "bad" person. If one is hurting another and has no concern for the consequences of their "bad acts" that means they are playing around with becoming a "bad" person imo. "Bad" is the opposite of being "good" and has many different meanings in the dictionary. I think when a person crosses the line and is bad enough, they become worse which is "evil". Personally, I don't think we have that many real evil people in society unless we count people who murder and do such acts. What goes on in these threads is more on the level of basically decent people doing "bad" acts. I agree with you if you mean it that way.
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Thats how I mean it Medipal.
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Just wanted to clarify, Bluepal.
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I suspect everyone is still in the learning stages of internet use and the kinds of behviour that are acceptable and unacceptable.
Anonymity is a big factor in allowing bad behaviour, somewhat like sending anonymous notes that say nasty things about the person in question, and not getting caught.
Then there are things that one would never even consider saying within a group, but feel it's okay to write in a post.
In group discussions, we depend so much on our senses -- watching expressions to see how are words are received, watching (and feeling) group reactions etc. All of that is impossible over the internet.
Of course, we can also encounter sociopaths -- over the internet and in real life -- and sometimes it takes awhile to recognize them. But, like Medigal, I like to think they're very much in the minority.
But one of the most wonderful things about the internet is meeting people from around the world, and personally learning about their way of life and their perspective on things. Thanks to BCO, I've made many new friends that I know I shall cherish for a lifetime. I have laughed at some posts til my sides hurt! I've learned so much more about BC than I would ever have thought existed. I've privately grieved for those who succumbed to it, and I've felt great joy when hearing about someone's clean scans and NED.
All the more reason to make the unsociable behaviour of some posters much more difficult to happen!
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I completely agree Linadasa with everything you wrote! Many of my bestest of friends were found on this site. Unfortunately I'm sure I encountered at least one, most likely two, sociopaths right here on BCO. Yes, thank goodness they are in the minority! Were they not, I certainly wouldn't be back here. I think of what happened to me could happen to any newbie (or oldbie, too). This community should not allow that and that is why it's important to ensure it cannot happen so easily!
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blah, congrats on reaching 4 years of survival.
nikki, I remember your posts from the days when your name was chemosabi. I loved your avatar, you found the cutest illustrations to include in your posts. It must be disheartening to you especially to see all these years later that people can still be locked out with just a threshhold of 5 reports.
I saw a news story last week stating 1 in 5 teenagers are the target of cyberbullies. This is a problem that isn't going away. It is of special importance in matters of health to reduce all unnecessary sources of stress.
In light of kadeeb's insights from a geeky point of view (please know I consider geek a term of endearment!), it sounds like many of the suggestions posed would be costly and time consuming.
Kadeeb, I wonder if you're still reading, could you comment on the level of difficulty that would be involved in changing the threshhold of 5 reports to something higher?
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Thank you much, Althea!
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Congrats Blah .. we were diagnosed at the same time four years ago! Hope all is well with you.
Bren
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Thanks Bren, and you as well. I certainly don't mean to hijack this thread!
Later I may post elsewhere about my four year survivorship .. or not! kadeeb, I'm also interested in the level of difficulty/cost involved in not allowing "new" posters the ability to report posts, since therein lies the biggest problem with people making up ID's simply to have the ability to post anonymously as well as give themselves enough posters to have a post removed by the "community".
edited because I bumped the submit button accidentally before I was done!
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I agree with PatMom, that dividing posters into "us" and "them" is counter-productive at minimum. Continually harping on people being "outsiders" "coming here" is wrong. If someone posts here, they ARE us. And it really doesn't matter where else on the web they choose to post.
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Riley, I think when a new poster comes here and deletes and deletes and deletes, they can be considered an outsider. That is exactly what happened on this thread.
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I just looked back and we have been discussing these changes since about the first of Jan, 2011(maybe before). It's been well hashed and some great ideas have flowed from "us", meaning the members of bc.org. I keep hoping Melissa will be comming forth with new information about when and if the changes we have suggesed/requested will be put in place. I will be so excited to see something good come from all this effort.
edited by dotti for clarification
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Riley: I am the one who has referred to certain people as "outsiders" and I stand by that reference. Maybe you have not been a part of this group long enough to know who I consider the "outsiders" but they are posters who come from a well know cancer forum just to start trouble on this thread and get us deleted. I don't consider "troublemakers" as a part of our usual group. Just posting here does not make a poster one of "us" if their intention is to start trouble. They can post on 200 other places on the web and I could care less. What I do care about is if their intention here is to start trouble.
I am surprised at Patmom's post because she is a regular and should be aware of why I make certain remarks about these people and why Athena made her remarks. We certainly are not in a position to tell people where they can and cannot post. If someone feels more comfortable posting in another group then, imo, that is where they should be. I feel the group of regulars we have seem to be happy posting here. However, there is always room for others, if they join for the right reasons. Just my opinion. Have a good night.
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This "us" versus "them" charge sounds like a big Red Herring from the little I can gather. No one has anything to worry about if they report posts with integrity and honesty and act in accordance with BCO rules, rather than reporting posts to either bully someone or because you disagree with their point of view, or out of malice, or because you have created ten accounts just to go after someone.
Seeing things as divided into two camps isn't helpful, and I disagree with Medigal (my Medi-pal) on that point. The problems on BCO come from many years and are not limited to one subplot, as posters like chemosabi and blah can attest to. The problems with people on another site is just one of the narratives and one that we, here, cannot really control.
It boils down to this for me, personally: I don't care where you come from, including Pluto, Mars, or if you are homegrown BCO, we need transparency and fair rules for moderation. This is not needed out of revenge or the need to create two camps, but out of fairness and to protect people who are being bullied, harassed and stalked here. For that, we need money. Hence this thread. And suggestions, hence this thread.
Another reason why there is no us versus them: If you have a history of BC or a special interest in it, we all belong to the same camp. Some of us are nice and some are not. Welcome to the world. That is why we need rules.
Edited to add: If this and any other post of mine this morning sounds irritable, I apologize. I have been listening to ambulance and fire trucks non-stop for some unaccountable reason and those sounds have a way of making my brain go haywire. Add to that the fact that there is someone at work acting like a Gestapo agent/schoolteacher.
Off to my onc, now. If he tells my I have mets, off with his head. 
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