Is it me or is this offensive?

Wow, this discussion is still going?

JB, you're right.  Women whine more.  We bitch more too.  Men don't whine and they don't bitch. They grouse, they grumble, they bellyache, they mutter, they mouth off,  they shutdown.  They do the same thing as women, they just do it differently. So yes, whining is a chick thing, but grousing and belly-aching is a guy thing.

I'm offended by the use of words like TaTas and Boobies and all the other 'fun' descriptors for breasts, certainly when they are used in the context of breast cancer but also generally. I've always felt uncomfortable with the North American obsession with breasts. I'm someone who's never been inclined to show off my breasts.  Most of the reason is that I'm modest but in all honesty a small part of the reason is probably because there was never much to show off.  But more than any of that, it was because I think women should be judged for who they are and what they've accomplished, not what they look like and particularly not because they happen to have large TaTas or because they put their TaTas on display.  The fact that our society puts value on something as ridiculous as breast size is absurd.  And it's sad. Sad for all the young girls who ask for breast enlargement surgery as a high school graduation present.  

What I particularly dislike about the use of all these 'fun' words for breast cancer causes is that it suggests that even when dealing with a serious life-threatening illness, the only way to draw attention to the condition is to focus on the sexual nature of our breasts.  Don't draw attention to the women who have this disease; focus the attention on the TaTas. The implication of that to those of us who have breast cancer, and particularly those of us who've lost one or both breasts, is really wrong.

So no, I wasn't looking for something to take offense at.  This is something that's offended me for a long time.  And JB, if you are not offended, that's great.  No one is saying that you have to be. But don't judge me or insult me or analyse me or label me because I am offended.  There's no rule that says that because you aren't offended, no one else is allowed to be, or if we are, we're wrong. Just as there is no rule that says that if I'm offended, you are wrong not to be.       

JB~

Why is it ironic to you that these women are getting reconstruction?  My personal opinion is that if I had to loose my breast than I at least would like another one in it's place.  I did the DIEP surgery and so they used tummy fat to recreate.  I think the message I am sending to my daughters is "when things get difficult you do the best you can."  A huge part of having BC for me was mental.  If having a breast there makes me feel better in my bathing suit etc. than so be it.  And if another women feels another way, that is her prerogative.

Stanzie - well said...

JB, no you haven't said that any of us who find the cutesy words offensive are wrong.  No, you've just said that we protest too much, we are whining, we are looking for a reason to find offense, we are inconsistent in our positions and arguments..... So let's not play semantics. You've said we are wrong.

I don't understand at all why you think it's inconsistent for someone with BC to want to save her breasts if possible or to want reconstruction if she has a mastectomy.  I would have preferred to have a lumpectomy but I didn't have that choice. I had reconstruction and the reason is because I know that the experience would have been a lot more difficult for me emotionally if I had not.  None of this is inconsistent with my dislike of the cutesy terms used for breasts, particularly when talking about breast cancer.

I know that breasts are sexual.  For me, the sexual pleasure that I get from my breasts is one of the reasons why I would have preferred to have a lumpectomy.  But that's my private business; it's not public and it's not something that I would ever discuss in a public domain (this website being an exception but my identify is hidden).  

As for reconstruction, I didn't get reconstruction in order to flaunt my breasts in public. I did have my reconstruction at least in part to "reconstruct" a particular physical image of myself but I suspect my reasoning is completely different than what you are thinking.  As I mentioned in my earlier post, by nature I'm modest.  I don't like to bring attention to myself. That's why I was never inclined to show off my breasts.  It's not the sort of attention that I would ever want.  Similarly, after a diagnosis of breast cancer, I still want to appear normal and not draw attention to myself. News Flash: The normal appearance of a woman is that she has breasts (not that she flaunts them or brings attention to them but just that they are there - women have breasts.) So going flat was not an option for me because I didn't want to look different and possibly draw attention to myself.  (And I had a single mastectomy so it might have looked quite strange.) That means either a prothesis or reconstruction. I did not think that I would deal well with having a prothesis. I was concerned that dealing with that every day would be a daily reminder of my breast cancer and I didn't want to face that.  Reconstruction was important to me because it allows me to dress and appear exactly as I did before; that helps me deal with my BC emotionally.  I wear the same clothes, even some of the same bras and the same bathing suits, etc. And reconstruction means that I can blend into the crowd just as I did before. So I had reconstruction because of what it meant to me; I didn't have it for society or for any other person. (As an aside, I worry when I see posts on this board where women wonder whether they should have reconstruction to please a spouse or partner or potential future partner. I strongly believe that the only person we should consider when making our surgery and reconstruction choices is ourselves.  We should not have surgery to please someone else.)

JB, you have some well defined opinions. You made your surgery decisions based on what matters to you.  That's great.  But please don't assume that my values are the same as yours and that the thoughts that went through my head as I was making my decisions were the same as yours - but then I just chose differently. You may have very strong feelings about why reconstruction would have been wrong and stupid and silly for you. But you cannot assume that your reasons for rejecting reconstruction are anyone else's reasons for choosing reconstruction.   

One last point, to some of your earlier posts in this thread and the other thread where this is being discussed.  No, I don't wrap myself in the pink ribbon. No pink ribbons around here at all.  I have never called myself a survivor and virtually no one knows I am one. In total only about 10 -12 people among all my family and friends even know that I had breast cancer and I only discussed my treatment & reconstruction choices with one very good friend. So again, don't make assumptions about what other people believe and how they act.

Accept it. Not everyone thinks like you. That doesn't mean that they are wrong or that they are whining or that they are inconsistent or that they are anything except individuals with their own minds. Stop being so judgemental and critical. And maybe read some of the responses you've been getting and take some time to think about them. You might learn something. Or you might even acquire a bit of empathy.

Edited for typos. 

Long before my daughter was diagnosed, my sister had a Save the Tata's sticker on her car. She doesn't mean to offend any of you. IF you knew her, you would know that she is a happy, light-hearted person who covers her feeling with what she sees as cheerful approaches to issues. Now, say what you will, but this girl has been many difficult trials in life and always comes out smiling. People have different personalities and see things differently. Some BC patients are offended by the term "survivor" - some by tata's -  others by the use of the word "cure" - whatever. We just need to get people involved whatever way works for them.

The first thing I did in my stupor after hearing my daughter's dx was to get a pink hat with a pink ribbon and the words "For my daughter" on it. We got bumper sticker saying the same and another one supporting health care for all. I take every opportunity to use my "props" to talk others - especially young women - about bc and the need to get mamograms.

Pink tells the world you are here, you are fighting for a cure, and we are here for you. Look how far BC awareness has come! I still have older freinds who won't say the word "breast" in public. How can you fight for research money for something you can't even say out loud? Thank God or Goddess for awareness and pink ribbons!

I think it's all in how you say the words.  There are nice ways to say things and still get your point across...I felt some hostility in JB's posts.  If you are going to say that all women should choose what is right for them, why be so hostile?

Your post is proving our point. YOU aren't the patient!! You have decided how to show support, that's fine. But it's not about YOU. And if a woman in the 21st century can't say the word breast, then there are more issues to worry about than breast cancer! Or, are you saying they're happy to say tit's or boobies? Juvenile words like peepie and dinkie....

We are saying that as patients of breast cancer, most of us don't like pink and the word tits. People keep posting saying "oh, but I did this" But those people aren't breasts cancer patients. So we are trying to say, if you haven't walked in our shoes, please respect our feelings on the matter and don't just consider us a bunch of whining women. The question was asked. We answered. Should have been the end.....

Oh Good Grief...I haven't visited here for a bit...Holy Buckets!  What happened?  Personally, I wouldn't want to see the poster in my BS office.  However, 'Save the Ta-Ta's' raises one heck of a lot of money since it appeals to men.  They want to save the boobs - the money goes to saving lives.  It is nothing more than a marketing slogan - they all are - the money goes to research that benefits every breast cancer patient in some way - the money IS about saving lives.

I had big tits all my life and I hated it - I didn't like having breast cancer either and losing one but I was alive.  Then I was dx'd with mets and was forced into having the expander removed so they could to the MRI necessary to guide the biopsy of my new bone mets.

I much prefer my new B cups over my one saggy D cup and one always being misplaced (or otherwise mis-located) - external protheses.  I had some fun with it - I put a pasty on it in Sturgis and 'flashed' it, I have fished it out of many an ice cooler when it flipped out of my top, I have retreived it from the bottom of a swimming pool on numerous occassions - they do not act as a 'floatation device', I have forgotten it, have thought I lost it to find it around my navel, and only once did it land in the potty - never had to fish it out of a port-a-pot or outhouse (thank goodness) but I did worry about that.  One of my ferrets ran off with it once and there were times it was buried in a pile of clothes that were taken off a bit too quickly (yes, that still happened). 

I prefer cheese with my whine and eat it a lot.  I hate pink october but I do like the color.  I have no respect for the 'marketing' of our disease - I haven't seen a cure yet, anybody?  I have seen kinder treatments for us at stage iv - I respect that we all have a difference of opinion when it comes to this particular body part.  Growing up, 'bra' was a word you didn't say.  Suddenly, in the 60's, braless was everywhere and with it, nipples - OMG (I am being very serious - I was mortified).  It did not take long to develop an insensitivity to words I had grown up being taught not to say and as I grew into the late 60's/early 70's and became a part of that generation - the shock factor was gone.  Breasts were out in the open and they will never go back under cover again.

Everyone views their bodies differently, takes losing a breast differently, finds different things offensive - if we were all the same and this disease were the same in each and every one of us - they would be a cure already.  It isn't and we aren't - I am not going to go mushy and say 'group hug' - but we should be able to agree to disagree without mudslinging - we can leave that to the politicians.

Hugs all...LowRider

Lowrider, I so agree with your post except for the big boobs sadly never had them, but must say reading you post made me smile.

JB~

I don't see why you would want to belittle the thoughts of others.  You may think this is a "silly, whiny, female issue" but not everyone agrees with you...

JB~

I do not "look for things to be upset or offended by."  I just call it like I see it.

Oh, JBinOK, I am sorry you don't feel female like the rest of us. Must be really hard for you to go on in a society that sees you as a female.

This is my pet peeve as time goes on. It didn't bother me in the beginning but it's starting to really grind on my nerves the past couple of months.

Breast cancer is not "cutesy" and going through it is no picnic.

My husband brews his own beer and we are having a celebration with friends about 4 weeks after my last chemo (which is this Friday  yeahhhh) My husband asked me what he should name the beer, he loves naming his beer. I dont drink it but I know others will and they will enjoy it. When I said that I hadnt a clue he told me he wanted to call it "Boobie Beer" to which I sighed and said, "There is nothing "cute" about what I'm (and all of you) are going through, that just makes me feel as if what I am going through is no big deal"

I have severely lost my sense of humor when it comes to this sort of thing. I didn't find it offensive till I started going through it.

How about we have a BBQ pork dinner and call it, "Porky for the fat piggies" and serve it to overweight people. To me its the same. Those who arent going through it would call it humorous, those who are overweight would find it rather offensive.