Outraged by TSA

Thanks, the site is very informative. 

Carol1949 ~

Head coverings and tent dresses? I find many pictures of the Virgin Mary, who by the way Muslims refer to as a perfect woman who is promised paradise, dressed as you described.

In reference to the treatment of women in Islam,  I challenge you to post the rights and fair treatment of Christian women from the Old and New Testament and I will do the same from the Quran and Hadeeth. This challenge is not exclusive to Carol1949 but I extend it to any of you so called authorities on Islam and Muslim women. Many of us were practicing Christians, priets, nuns and even rabbis before becoming Muslim so the teachings of your books are not mysteries to us and many of us know them better than you do.

When you talk about Muslim women in black veils and long dresses you are describing me and my daughters. I assure you that my husband never imposed it on any of us and your attempt to portray Muslim men as imposing figures lurking over us forcing us to cover is absurd and you should be ashamed of yourself. You and your ilk are an arroogant lot to assume that we want or need you to rescue us. Know that we Muslim women have never asked you or your men to  free us from Islamic practices and dress so stop using us a pretext to invade our countries, steal our resources and kill our people.

Learn to speak the language? As a Muslim who also has native blood, I find it odd that the common language of America is English.

Muslim terrorists & 911? If you saw Osama Bin Laden standing in your front yard you could not have him arrested for 911.  Did you know that he is on the FBI's most wanted list but not wanted for 911? Not enough evidence to have him indicted which is amazing considering young men like your son are fighting a war based on his "crimes.

I am appalled by some of these post and I can't believe they are festering on a BC discussion board. Someone needs to answer for this.

I noticed the info given was only on the "backscatter" type scanner.  I would also like to see the numbers on the other scanner, for comparison purposes. 

I've been following the story about Sharon Cissna, looking to see what would happen next - and I was wondering just what it was about the pat down that upset her so.  But I found this article - where Ms. Cissna tells exactly what happened during the pat down she got about 3 months ago:  Article

I found it shocking that the TSA agent put her fingers inside Ms. Cissna's bra to feel her mastectomy scar.  I simply cannot accept that doing that was necessary.  It gives me the creeps.  I mean... it's one thing if the TSA screener had seen something that looked like a gun or a knife... but just a breast prosthesis?

So far the TSA's response to this has just been to say that there's "nothing inherent about a mastectomy that would set off security alarms." - so OK.  Why (after she'd been through the xray) did they pull her aside for the pat down - not once but twice?

The state legislature in Alaska got on board right away, passing a resolution to back her: Article

Today I found another interesting article about a bill introduced in New Hampshire which would make TSA patdowns a felony if the screener didn't have probable cause:  Article

The focus of Cissna's objection seems to be that the pat downs are upsetting to people who have been victims of sexual assault.  The New Hampshire bill seems to be coming up on the side of illegal and unjustified searches (ie: they upset nearly everyone).  I'll be surprised if that bill goes anywhere - and even if it gets passed, probably won't do any good as state laws don't trump federal laws.  Still - at least someone's trying to do something. 

Then - to cap it off - there's a report about how someone got not 1, not 2, but 3 box cutters through TSA checks last Saturday:  Article

I have a trip coming up soon - one that will take me through several major US airports.  Sure do wish I could do this trip without flying.

I've seena few news videos of TSA agents with the blue gloves on.  I've never seeen them cleaning or changing the gloves.  Does anyone know if the agents change gloves and sanitize thier hands before every pat down?  If I fly again I will opt out of scanning, but I don't want to be infected with something someone ahead of me had.  How much ruckus will I make when I insist the agent change gloves and santitize his/her hands before touching me or my things?

Too many people are blaming the TSA screeners, let's not forget they have to stand by these radiation machines and push a button zapping passengers with radiation, over and over and over, and we worry about US.  Who is speaking out for them regarding this issue? They have noone.

I travel all the time and I ask them, what about you? What about your health? They tell me the same thing. They cannot have radiation dosimeters, there are NO safety measure for them. They are not allowed, they have no voice and I heard they are treated awful. Shame on us for blaming them.

I wish some of us would come out of our own house and ask questions so that others never have to go through what we went through. I had the invasive surgery, I had the chemo and now I have the cloud over my head. I feel awful that in this great nation we have people that are protecting us and noone is protecting them, it is shameful!

 I know that noone will respond to this, I am fully aware of that, but I wish we would think about others, some cancers can be avoided. We should not be exposing the very people that are trying to keep us safe.

Enough with the blame already, let's actually do something preventative to help them like call our congressmen and women and start asking questions, if not now, when, when it's to late?

 Just my 2 cents

Native Mariner. I got an answer back from TSA last winter on the glove question.  They do not routinely change gloves.  They states that there are gloves available to change, but, would not answer my question about whether or not we are allowed to request anyone patting us down or putting their hands under our clothes change their gloves first.

Just saw this on cnn.com.  I still don't understand how so many people trustingly walk through these machines just because they are told they are safe...

 http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/11/tsa.body.scanners/index.html?hpt=T2#

I had three separate round trips to the US from Canada in February so on my 3rd, I was a special selectee leaving Canada, probably because someone in US immigration suspected me of stealing jobs from Americans or something. The inspection was very courteous back-of-the-hand once over my clothing (I always fly in full-body Lululemon outfits, no belts, jackets fit close enough that they don't have to come off.) I told her I had a prosthesis and another type of medical implant elsewhere on my body, and she was unflustered, courteous, and quick.

Coming back from Orlando, we were directed into an express lane that had no backlog as it had just reopened after a staff break or something, and lo and behold there was the backscatter. The first few people were just metal-detected as the operator was booting it up, but then it was running by the time my party arrived. I let my husband and daughter decide for themselves and they did the backscatter, but I told the officer if it wasn't too much trouble, I'd prefer the pat-down as I'd had a lot of Xrays lately (my case: stereotactic core biopsy, wire guided lumpectomy, then uni-mammogram post mastectomy, plus multiple dental xrays for diagnosing and fitting crowns for all the molars I'm crushing under the stress). (I know it's my right to have the choice, but asking graciously doesn't cost me anything.)

They courteously summoned a female agent, and I waited only about 30 seconds for her arrival. I engaged her with the courtesy I hoped she would show me. I said I had a prosthesis and she asked if I had any pain she should avoid causing. She asked if I had any other medical conditions and I explained the other implant. She asked if I'd had a pat down before and I joked that I'd just had one coming from Canada but I did not know if they do it the same here in the States. As she was patting along the back, over my shoulders, I said "I ran a half marathon yesterday and kind of appreciate the free massage" and she smiled and asked how my time was and whether it was a pleasant event etc. and while she was finishing the pat-down, I shared a few highlights.

She did not touch me in any way that I would perceive as "too" personal, and definitely not inappropriate. Certainly less than the bra fitter at the prosthesis place does, or someone fitting you for a swimsuit, costume, or tailored uniform. She could not have been more considerate, personable, and professional.

In summary, whether or not you think that the scan or pat-down policy is necessary or pointless, that policy is outside the hands of both the TSA personnel at the airport and the boarding-pass holder. For myself, I'd actually probably prefer being on a plane where everyone's body and luggage has been examined than nobody's, and agree that even these procedures leave other unsecured gaps, but rather than backing off passenger screening and opening up all the gaps, I'd rather see the system continually improved to secure the remaining gaps. What actually becomes policy is a matter between American voters and your political candidates and the bureaucrats that they appoint, and none of those are me.

But back to the thread, I have plenty of capacity for outrage, but I am NOT outraged by TSA and have not been in any of my encounters since BC. Sure, I'd prefer the metal detector line too, but sometimes we'll end up in the scan or pat-down lane. Having chosen the pat-down this time, I think whether the experience is outrageous depends a lot on the temperament of both people involved. I don't mean to suggest that people who have been molested or roughed up by bad TSA apples brought it on themselves, but I can see how just being in a different frame of mind could have made being selected for special inspection on two consecutive flights could have made a passenger feel singled out, picked on, intruded upon etc. especially being someone so demographically opposite every stereotype of security risk, and especially if one had philosophical objections about the policy. But they don't know me, and I don't know them, and I figured if it might make the process go more smoothly by treating them as people who cared about me, then I'll try that.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/118121019.html  

I think this says a lot, my prediction is, that this prediction is a huge understatement.

So for how long should we look away and not do anything?

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/category/nude-airport-body-scanners/

I flew out of Canada two weeks ago, went through the scanner, no problem moved right on. Then we flew back through Phoenix, i chose the scanner again, didn.t pass, the female security asked if I wanted a private pat down, and I said no, go ahead, she put on new gloves and politely felt the middle of my chest, under the prosthesis, and in the back , only took a few minutes and was not intrusive.  Just found it strange they recognized the prosthesis for what it was in Canada, and passed me through because I didn.t look dangerous or in US, they figure anyone is going to wrap explosives in their bra, I forgot to mention she tested my hands in Phoenix for powder residue. They run some kind of gun over your palms. It was interesting, to go through the procedure. I guess if we want to fly, we follow procedures, better safe then sorry.

I find anyone touching me, without my permission, to be not just intrusive, but frightening and humiliating. Being touched, even on top of my clothing would cause me emotional harm. If I had to be patted down at an airport, I would ask for my luggage back and not fly. Fortunately, it hasn't come to that. I love to travel and have been all over the world, but the last few years, especially when I travel to the US, it has been a nightmare. Even when I visited Israel, and expected the security to be intrusive, it wasn't. They concentrate on asking questions and then watching your facial reactions and body language. They are expert face and body readers.

I read a story yesterday that detailed all the lost revenue because people are electing not to travel one to three times per year because of TSA. The losses for airlines, hotels, restaurants, retail and the US government was in the billions of USDs. There's got to be a better way.

http://img.thehill.com/blogs/transportation-report/tsa/149875-group-recommends-tsa-create-trusted-traveler-program-

JustJudi--that's exacty why US airport security doesn't really work.  They're prohibited from using the tool that will really help (profiling) and not taught how to question people while watching body language.  Even notice how all the changes (taking off shoes, limiting amounts of fluids) come AFTER someone gets something dangerous onto a plane? 

Thanks for clarifying, Judi.  The word "under" had me worried.  I was used to getting a separate screening because of my knee replacement, but haven't flown since the new scanners were installed.  I can't walk thru the regular metal scanner because my knee sets it off, and won't use the new backscatter machine because of my skin cancer history, (as well as BC).  So I guess I'm destined to know a few TSA screeners "up close and personal."  It's just how up close and personal it might get that worries me.