Troll psychology
Comments
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Susan,
I replied to your PM.
The automated email I got said the same. I do have a PM into Melissa. There was nothing stalking, harassing, abusive or threatening about my posts.
Susan remember you can add to your 5 posts by using the edit function too...
I can understand the need to protect the site from spam and abuse. But I also think it would be prudent to be able to challenge a probation by having a live human being revue any "reported" posts if a member of the community were unfairly reported just because someone disagreed with a few posts. Cuts down on the indiscriminate abuse of the "report" function
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Susan -- Do take AnnNYC's advice and contact the Moderator, asking her to review your posts. She will know who reported your posts and (we hope) will take the appropriate action. Unfortunately, there are posters here whose main source of entertainment is via upsetting others <sigh>
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Oh....if you folks knew how some of us have been trying to hammer that home too. I have never posted anything harassing, threatening, hateful, illegal, etc.... and have been deleted simply because it only takes five accounts to press the "Report this post" button (notice that I say five accounts - that may or may not be five people). And it happens to others too. Yet posts that are abusive and contain personal attacks routinely stay, as are those that make false accusations of trollism, cancer-ism, etc... or attacks against other countries or cultures.
As with too much else in life, it's all in who you know, I suppose...
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At first, I was entirely convinced she was a troll. Now, I think I just wish she was a troll.
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Athena, that is really unfortunate. I have been spending most of my time in the "Waiting for results" "Not diagnosed but Worried" area helping those who show up here in the very beginning of their breast cancer scares.
I figure it's my way of helping out everyone, including those like Beesie, who just aren't in an emotional spot to deal with newbies who are frightened.
I can handle that while others who are fighting BC deal with that. Sort of like guiding and supporting them thru the preliminary steps until they find out if they continue on this road.
To have a temporary probation based on two posts were pulled by an automated report feature (that were neither harassing or abusive, strongly worded yes, but not harassing or abusive) I find leaves those newbies with less support than they may otherwise have.
They end up on the short end of the stick of some really inanine behavior.
But I guess those who play games arent really thinking about the many women here who are in need. They dont see the bigger picture.
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No Marie .. they don't see the bigger picture. And it's sad.
I hope Melissa can get this mess straightened out.
Bren
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They have their own agendas.
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Just got a reply from Melissa. She deleted the thread. Everything should be ok now
Susan you should be ok now too.
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I hope those who reported the posts get reprimanded, but I will not hold my breath.
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I hope the deletion of the thread (and good riddance to that move!) gets folks who were unfairly deleted out of the penalty box, but I don't think that happens automatically. Anyone who hasn't specifically asked Melissa to end your 5/24 restriction, you might want to do so.
(And Marie, you can't add to your 5-post quota by editing previous posts. The program catches that. Sadly, I speak from experience.)
EDITED to correct a brain fart. (Good thing I'm not on restriction, or I wouldn't have been able to fix it!)
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Thank Lewing,
I was able to edit a few times with the temp account but perhaps I hadnt reached 5 yet.
Good point about asking Melissa to lift the probation if the deletion doesnt fix it. She can actually eyeball and determine which posts were truly abusive, if any, and which one's were not
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I just have to say, I think the whole situation is very sad. If I were a newbie and got "support" like the kind that poster received...I'm just at a loss to describe how that must have felt. Sure, no one agreed with her sense of entitlement, but to call someone a bitch? That's not abusive or hateful? Really? Many of the other posts (which I can't remember verbatim and now they are gone) were not necessarily abusive, but they were down right vicious and disrespectful. And for someone to say that even if she's not a troll, you wish she was? Really? Have our lives now been ruined by this person's one lousy post? Every single one of us here has dealt with facing our mortality, which is huge but we all dealt with or are dealing with it. Yet this one little post by someone who had self-medicated to escape the reality of her diagnosis has everyone so stirred up and nobody seems to be able to let it go and move on. It just seems like there would be bigger fish to fry for most of us.
I just don't get it I guess. This is supposed to be a place of support and the past few months it just seems like it's fight after fight, report after report, with no empathy at all. Sure, everyone has their own opinion and it's fine to disagree, but do the insults really have to start flying as soon as someone says something that someone else doesn't agree with? Why can't it be "I don't agree with you because in my experience, or according to this study...", and not "This bitch is a troll" or "You're a fool not to do chemo" or "So what if you've got cancer and you're scared, suck it up".
This site has become a source of entertainment instead of a place to go for support, encouragement, advice, and friendship. It's just really unfortunate.
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My post that was deleted was just a link to todd Rundgen singing "Bang on the drums all day" Doesn't seem to break any rules. Guess some people have no sense of humor.
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Seriously though I was very put off by her wanting to milk the system. She doesn't want to work that's her choice but to think everyone else should pay for her was what really got to me. Yes people come here for support but she posted with her hand out. Two very different things.
Granted name calling and the few nasty posts were just as bad.
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Twinmom,
It would be really sad if all the boards were like that. That was my first experience of seeing it happen.
We all bring all of our baggage with us where ever we go and with whatever we face. Which means a lot of wading thru not only our own, but other people's baggage.
Hopefully people have the emotional skills to navigate not only their own health issues, but can recognize when someone else is toxic to them, and vice versa.
But it's a fair statement that that is a learned skill and not a given. And any catastrophic situation, medical or otherwise, throws one into the fire with no regard to whether or not one is ready for it.
And fire burns, that is a fact.
People dont stop and drop their character or temperament just because they face a horrific diagnosis.
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The responsbility for the mess that thread became wasn't just with the responders. Face it, the original post was pretty insensitive to others on this board who are struggling daily with advanced cancer, physical symptoms and emotional trauma just getting their asses to work on a daily basis.
Granted, apparently she was medicated and probably wasn't thinking about all that being a newbie. I hope she will continue to post and find the help she needs.
Bren
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I have to say I agree with you TwinMom77- if I want entertainment I'll go on an entertainment site - or facebook. When I comment on someone's post I try to be honest and comforting but I have been known to take the bait. Sometimes it is just so hard to walk away from ignorance. I had never even heard of a troll or imagined someone would go to a site like this and pose as an imposter - talk about bad Karma! My office is a toxic place lately too - maybe it's me - or maybe we are all just really sick of winter and need some drama. Whatever the reason, it would be nice to think a new person just diagnosed will be able to come here and find solace and compassion, not belittlement and name calling. Ellie -
This seems to be such an easy fix to me. The mods should just post the screen name of the deleter (I think it's only one person). They're obviously abusing the board and their identity is hidden behind their screen name so what would it matter.? Looks like they can just come back on with another e-mail address anyway, but at least then everyone will know who it is, rather than accusing ad nauseum. Is that too simple?
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Gracie .. According to a note from Melissa awhile back, the tec's are working on implementing that very thing.
Bren
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Good to know, but I think the damage has been done. An "outing" post by the mods would go a lot further in restoring peace, rather than changing the tech side of things. Whoever is doing it will surely stop when it's implemented anyway and we'll never know for sure.
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Well, I got deleted after Anna said we were rich and didn't have to work. Designer Mom posted in and I did too saying "I am NOT rich. I do HAVE to work. Go back to work." Sorry, I don't get it. No rules broken. Stating an answer to a very insulting question followed by my personal opinion. ??
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Testing
Edited to add: Woo HOO! .... I'm off the naughty step.
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That is what I find bothersome. How easy it was for someone(s) to get other people's non-violating posts deleted, which for me lead to a temporary limited posting rights.
I know the idea of protecting the boards from spam and abuse is definately needed, just wish the procedure to do that could be fine-tuned to make sure THAT isnt abused
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HI SUSAN!!!!
"Free! Free! Free at last!!!"
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I agree Marie. Maybe it should take more than 5 "reports" to form a quorum around here.
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Yay susansgarden's back. I too agree that 5 reports seems a little quick knowing that people can abuse the system. One person could have 5 addresses/names and go around deleting based on her/his opinion alone. What too easy. 10 would be a bit more challenging.
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Barbara, you don't have to break any rules to be deleted. You just have to tick off 5 people (or fewer if we're talking about those who have multiple IDs) and they can click the "Report this Post" button. No one checks to see if the post did in fact violate the rules - the post is automatically deleted after 5 hits on the button. And you then receive the automated email.
The automatic deletion is not a bad thing when we are talking about spammers. We can get rid of spam in a matter of minutes but if we had to wait for the post to be reviewed, it could be hours or on weekends, days. So the system makes sense. Edited to Add: The 5 report criteria also makes sense. This past weekend when it wasn't busy it took a few hours just to get the 5 hits necessary to delete some spam. If 10 reports had been necessary, it might have been many more hours before the spam was deleted. The system was set up to address spam and it is effective at addressing spam. The system should not be made less effective against spam simply because there are a handful of people who abuse the system.
What doesn't make sense is that the abuse of the system has been allowed to continue for so long. Probably 2 years ago or more, several of us, including myself, proposed the idea of listing the names of those who deleted a post whenever a post is deleted. That idea was rejected and only recently seems to have come into favor. My suggestion more recently was that the "Report this Post" button should be disabled against any posts that come from established members. If an established member is posting something that is offensive, either let it stay (and let that person have to live by their words) or notify the Moderators, who can then choose to delete the post. This would completely stop the abuse. People would no longer be able to push the "Report this Post" button just because they don't like someone. Why can't the board create two levels of members, one that is a "Newbie" (or whatever word they want) and one that is "Established" (or whatever word they want). Newbies would have posting limits (as they do now) and their posts could be deleted. All spammers are newbies so this would address the spam issue. Once a certain number of posts have been placed successfully without deletion, the member graduates to Established status and no longer has posting limits and no longer can have posts deleted. That seems pretty simple from a programming standpoint and it would completely solve the abuse issue without affecting the management of spam.
As for the latest situation, while I understand why the whole thread was deleted, yet again some good posts and some good learning has been washed away. That thread provided the best possible example of why it's important to not rush to judgement and why civility is important. There was some good discussion about that - some lessons that everyone who posts on this board should learn. But now it's all gone. I guess I understand why but I find it frustrating.
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I guess that would be o.k., but I don't agree with being allowed to delete a newbie's post. Some have had to have their entire identity removed from the boards (username and posts) due to threats, harrassment etc., even some at their jobs. When they re-register, they're technically a newbie but have been members for years. Therein lies the problem, I think. It might be better to remove the button all together. It's much easier to ignore spam than personal attacks. If someone reallly has a "need" for that button, perhaps they could contact the mods directly and tell them the post breaks the rules, rather than just having the power to have it deleted on their own. JMO
Edited to add: I still like the idea of outing the person/s.
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Well I think some of my questions have been addressed here, and I learnt a lot by reading your replies. Thank you. I'm sorry how many established members have been upset by this, but now we can all understand a bit more of the forum processes, about things like deletions etc. Athena i think it was you who posted the rules of the forum here (it's on the first page and my cheap little computer can't keep both windows open at once) and reading that, i did wonder if our enthusiasm about the Solidea wavy sleeve on the Lymphoedema zone could be read as amounting to, "What a wonderful product this is, let's all go out and buy one" and be seen as a commercialisation, whereas this is just the place to find out if there is a good product out there, where do you draw the line? Who would be a moderator and take these decisions!
I've also been reading a bit today about purposeful writing: Writing to entertain (fiction), writing to persuade (propaganda), writing to inform (research reports), writing to instruct (manuals), etc, The kids in school now get this, and many of them also get taught critical thinking (pre-research skills) which is basically about asking the right questions - but sadly my generation was just left to figure it out, and i'm not finding it easy! One theory i had in the past about trolls, who do seem to come in waves, was that a classroom of kids had been let loose with an assignment to raise a reaction from strangers by pretending to be in trouble of some kind, or pretending to hold an extreme opinion and then having to defend it against the challenges. Probably they would have had to analyse the replies and "type" the respondents accordingly?.... Doubtless the politicians also get similar waves of letters when the class gets taught how to present a case, or write to persuade. Like you say though, it might be okay on facebook, it's not okay on a support forum for a life-threatening disease.
From what's been said above, I'm gathering the original poster on the deleted thread who posted as Annabanana28 has been deemed to be genuine, if a bit misguided, so I also echo the thought that i hope she does come back for a bit more support and to get her DCIS/BC situation in context and see the bigger picture. We have a wealth of experience on these boards and it's a huge resource so yes, let's not let it get abused by people who selfishly come here with their own exploitative agendas. I think in her shoes, after getting a reaction like that, a new identity might be justified....
BTW, I understand about the stalkers, but how did you spot the self-medication? that went completely over my head.... maybe shows another vital flaw in my up-bringing and things I accept as normal that really aren't, but that's another whole can of worms!
PS sorry if i seem to dip in and out this thread. Being as I'm roughly six hours ahead of you, it's just gone midnight for me, so i'm off to bed in a minute. Flipside of that is, on the nights when i can't sleep, it has been so great that you are mostly all wide awake at times when even the best of my local friends doesn't really want to be called up!
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Annabanana28 is back and has posted an apology. She was the one who requested her thread be removed.
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I agree with displaying members names that have reported the posts. If I was going to report a post for abusive, hateful, or threatening language... I wouldn't care if others knew.
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