Troll psychology
Not sure where else to put this. I know the general wisdom is, Don't feed the trolls, but there is a thread on the "Help me get through Treatment" forum that has had an astonishing following this afternoon attracting 90 responses in 9 hours. It got me wondering how this happened!
Not withstanding what i think about whether that partciular thread is trollish or not, it certainly presents a very unusual approach and has shot out a very strong reaction. I was led to wonder why people come onto forums with intent to provoke. Are they desparately lonely and need to get a response, or desparately argumentative but got more sense than to go out in the street and hit sombody or what? Are they trying an extreme stance with strangers in order to try and guage what might be acceptable in the "real world"? My friend suggested some are probably deranged and i think i have met a few of those in my time, but that others may be undertaking a project of writing-research "novel-ology" literatue mechanisms, the finer points of language skills, how best to provoke reactions how to extract sympathy advice facts depending how they present their case. Not just your usual manipulative personalities yuo get in every office or family, but people who set out to learn what words or patterns can get the best response. I can see a possible application for this in advertising or producing trashy fiction whatever. Obviously for us with BC or worried about it, getting wound up by an individual is not wise, stressses us out, and we don't want the forum to be an intellectual battle ground or we are being used as pawns in a game. It is nice to expect everyone here is honest and is what they say, but obviously a bit unrealistic and naiive of me to hope that.
Im starting this because in the unlikely event that the original poster on the other thread is genuine, she has had, along with a few sympathetic responses, a huge heap of disbeleif piled onto her, when most of it is about trollish behaviour and the stance she has taken and may not be helpful if she is genuine, however misguided. She has hit the 5 posts limit and has no current right of reply. I'm hoping to deflect that argument and any related discussions about trolls in general here, so that if her situation is genuine then her thread can be there to help her.
with my rose specs!
Comments
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Case in point:
littletower wrote: a few minutes ago.
I'm with Lowrider on this one...this post by [newbie] is pathetic. Makes me furious, particularly when you read the true stories on this board.
In her profile, Littletower tells us she is a policy analyst & lobbyist. I have no real idea what that means, but i think it means she is also a word-smith of some sort, used to putting sentences together, in person or on paper, to influence people's feelings and actions. My point is that, if she can be raised to a fury by the few words of a stranger, I think there is something odd going on.
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Hymil -- I've just read though most of the thread, and I'm sorry that some have rushed to judgement regarding annabanana. Any one of us on these boards could be posting something that is either half true or not true at all, and none of us would be the wiser. We might not agree with Annabanana's desire to quit work, but who are we to be the stone throwers? We don't know her story, only the tiny little bit that she has chosen to share.
"Trolls" usually reveal themselves -- sometimes with initial posts, and sometimes when they actually troll through threads looking for someone for whom they've taken an active dislike ("stalkers" is a good word to describe them). I noticed that on annabanana's thread, as did a couple of other readers.
I hope that annabanana will continue posting when she is able, and I hope that she gets the support here that she seems to need.
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I've read thru a couple of threads that talk about spitefulness (people getting other people's posts deleted just because) and some that refer to trolls.... but i've never seen a trollish letter - as far as i know. Of course, i've also never managed to see a letter that was then removed.
So - on the annabanana thread, were the posts that have been "deleted by the community" considered to be from trolls? Considering that there were some pretty strong opinions voiced (and *not* deleted), i'm wondering what the deleted posts were like ...
Edited to add: incidentally, i think starting this new thread would be a terrific idea, if the people who are so horrified by annabanana's letter would just move off that thread to this one. Assuming annabanana is serious, the outpouring of venom will probably dirve her off forever! And she clearly needs help: not to get what she wants, but to work her way to reality.
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I laugh when I see "troll-ish" threads become sooo long so quickly - then other threads, which I think are much more important and educational, end before reaching a second page. Oftentimes, my own comments will be the last on these threads. Over the years, I've come to believe that my words can jynx a thread to suddenly end! I could definitely learn something from the talented "trolls", lol!
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Mouser,
One of mine was and since I am not a troll I dont think that the ones that were deleted were thought to be from trolls
The one that was deleted of mine was pretty much similar to the other strongly voiced ones I made. Infact almost verbatim from another post I had made.
It could be that they were deleted not so much because they were offensive, but to calm the thread down.
Only a guess on my part but I think someone(s) went thru and "reported" posts for whatever reason they felt, and the moderators went thru and just took some of the more heated ones down. There certainly remains several heated ones left so I dont think the point of offense or discussion is really lost even with those removed.
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Linda, you spotted a "stalker" on the annabanana thread, really?
I think we are too quick to jump to judgement about who is a troll and who isn't. Sure sometimes it's obvious but when it's not, we really should show some caution and let things run for a while before the accusations start. On the other hand, there've been posters on this board who after days or weeks clearly are not legitimate and yet they have their staunch defenders. There are some members here who don't seem to realize that this isn't a safe private world of truth and goodness; nope, this is the internet and not everyone on the internet is who they claim to be. So it seems that it goes both ways... sometimes there is a rush to judgement and other times it takes forever to flush a troll out.
As for why the trolls do it.... I think there are two types - at least. First are the ones who post mean or stupid or provocative posts. The "Incredible cure for cancer" and "wearing bras causes cancer" types of post. I think their intent is to provoke and/or raise havoc. It's their way of having fun. I think most who post this way are just cruel people. If you watch kids, you sometimes find a kid who is cruel - who sneakily does something to get another child into trouble or who hurts an animal or whatever. I think the ones who post like this are grown-up versions of those kids.
The other type are the ones who come here with posts that try to make it sound as though they have breast cancer. Usually it's not run-of-the-mill BC (not that there is such a thing) but they have all sorts of problems and unusual health issues or side effects / after effects from treatment, etc.. Or maybe it's someone who is going through the diagnostic process but who then sticks around for a long time, with one problem after another after another. The first problem might have been legit but the later ones aren't. I think that these are people who are craving attention. They find a supportive little group here and they don't want to leave. So they keep creating more and more problems so that they get more and more sympathy and support. I've seen threads that go on for 5 pages or more, with well wishes and hugs and all sorts of sympathy and yet it seems pretty apparent from how the story doesn't hold together that none of it is real.
I guess the real reason that both of these groups of trolls do what they do is because they are not emotionally well, in one way or another.
Or maybe not.
FYI, Marie, I don't think that the Mods were involved with any of the deletions in that thread. If 5 people on this board push the "Report this Post" button, then the post is automatically deleted. No moderator intervention needed (except to put the post back if it was wrongly deleted and this is brought to their attention). I think a few people went through the whole thread and reported whichever posts they though were concerning. The ones that happened to get 5 hits are now gone.
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One of my responses was removed by the "community" also and I am not a troll.
There are three reasons to remove a post or so I found out today when I got the email from BCO. Apparently my response was either considered hateful or abusive. Not sure which since you can't respond back to the email.
In any case I decided to remove ALL of my responses to that thread. I will just have to be more careful in the future to not be so direct and offend someone. Out of curiosity I did go back and saw that responses by 7 different people were removed by the community and there were others that elected to remove ALL of their responses to the thread - me being one of them. At least I know I wasn't the only one that read that initial question as being odd. Now, I hope I haven't offended another person and that I may be able to stay on this board for another 2 years.
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I didn't post my true feelings on the thread because I was a bit outraged and at the same time didn't want to post something nasty. Yes I posted the video but that was to lighten things up… not really meant as a commentary.
I don't really think anna is a troll. At the same time I have to wonder why the first thing and only thing she posts after being diagnosed is I don't want to work and I want people or the system to pay for it…
From what I see (including myself) the first things I posted here was questions about the disease, treatment etc. not about getting out of work for a living. I know folks are cutting her some slack but to be honest I get the feeling she was a slacker before breast cancer.
Yes breast cancer is tough but I don't believe it gives someone the right to behave badly or milk the system.
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Thank you ladies for all your responses. I really appreciate those of you who have come over here, and those who over there have expressed the sort of welcome we would like and have all had ourselves, as well as helpful reflections of the scenario as presented and possible options.
I do agree the original post was odd (and then some!) and way out of line when set against a stage IV warrior who is having her disability stopped because "they" (her insurers) just know that she will be healed in september, or maybe she has had her year of having a year to live or however they set these rules, and they think she should be dead by now
How awful is that scenario. But nobody calls her bluff, although it seems, extraordinary, and nor do I. We are here to try and sort out extraordinary responses like that from our treatment teams that may be the results of genuine errors and to ask, Do you think this is normal or should I complain? or, Is this common but unacceptable and we should launch a petition against it and change the policy. Is my doc out of line, should i be getting a second opinion. In that context, though, what can you say to someone who just doesn't feel like working? Some of us may have to change jobs after a diagnosis or after SE's of treatment but I think most of us want to work and pay our way, that's my own gloss. But then, i come from a culture with a pathologically strong work ethic, i need to hang out a bit more, so yeah i'm biased! Beesie, thank you for your detailed thoughts too. My own BC experience is in a minority (2% pathology for mucinous BC, and another c.10% factor for being under 50) which is one reason i'm here over the pond learning your idiom
of our language, there is a similar UK forum for BC but it's just too small. LE in particular is treated so much better in the US and because you have the ethos of patient education and choice, here i can get the info I need, so just having an unusual story isn't in itself such a big deal for me, but I do take your point especially in regards to "Oh and another thing" syndrome - There are those who get one problem solved and immediately they produce another, attention seekers or poor copers. It's good to know about what some of these flag behaviours are and what an appropriate reaction might be, someone mentioned "support but don't enable" i think that may have been Janewell.As you can tell i'm no magic worker with words myself (- it would help if i could spell and type a bit better for a start) but I do work in a so-called caring profession (well, that may be about to change with the LE, I may need to take to a keyboard in earnest) but like many of the "benefit of the doubt" club I would hate to accuse someone who is actually in deep trouble, even if she has expressed it inappropriately or takes a line at variance with the mores of the majority. Wearing the hat of a potential future counsellor, I am trying to get my head inside this sort of thing why some people are trolls and how can you determine who to get wound up about.
I'm amazed how that thread is still growing, and i'm also impressed how with five posts such antipathy has been evoked, whereas I have interacted with several other newbies in the last two weeks who have produced just the opposite reaction. Truly our words have great power for good or evil! Thanks to y'all!
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Swimangel, I have killed a few threads too. Not that i insist on having the last word you know
Maybe i just ask the unanswerable. My daughter used to do this when she was a toddler, in the car, impossibly simple things like, Why is God? and then while you were struggling to know what to say, rabbitting on for twenty minutes, she, having got it out of her sysytem like an enormous mental belch, would be blissfully asleep! Sometimes we just need to express ourselves?
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I stumbled on that thread this a.m. in the active topics. Wow! I couldn't believe all the long time posters that were deleted by the community.
Is the OP a troll .. I have no idea. But since most of us had no choice but to work during treatment, it sure did touch a sore spot. The whole long thread was strange.
I thought only people in the political thread got deleted!
Bren
PS .. Beesie .. it's quite easy to identify the stalkers!
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Bren, yes I know. Sometimes I am out of the loop for a while on who's who but usually I catch up at some point! One of our stalkers recently gave herself yet another new identify. I think it took me all of 6 seconds to figure that one out.
I just wish that people would grow up! The stalking and the frequent name changes and the multiple identifies and the posts written with the sole purpose of picking a fight are childish and silly. I come to this board to provide what support I can to those who are going through the diagnosis process and those who are newly diagnosed, particularly those with a diagnosis similar to mine. I also sometimes enjoy participating in respectful adult discussions/debates about current affairs and politics. This childish behavior is a waste of time for everybody and certainly doesn't help those who are newly diagnosed and come here looking for support and information but end up getting caught in the middle of a junior high spat. Maybe we should just try one week where everyone agrees to an adult approach - ignoring those you disagree with or responding politely and respectfully with your counter-argument - just to see how it goes. Maybe it would catch on.
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Beesie .. not so sure it would catch on. Sadly. I think the folks with multiple identities have a purpose and they aren't willing to give up that purpose for being on the board.
Bren
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Well, perhaps they have no real friends, so their multiple identities are their imaginary friends. I deduce that from many of their posts.
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Interesting thread. On this topic in general, I find it concerning how easily assumptions and false accusations are made here about who is real and who is not, who has BC and who does not and who is a troll. In life -and even more so in a virtual world- misunderstandings are so easy that accusations should really be made more carefully.
Sometimes, what some see as trollishness may really be utter stupidity or self-centeredness, as we saw. It may be incredible naivete. Or problems getting you message across. One poster got accused of impersonating another simply because she omitted to note that she was posting someone else's message for her. We should always ask questions before making statements, and I remind myself to remember that too.
On the other hand, there are certainties, Beesie, and one is that you had a stalker on that thread who was very easy to spot!
Edited to add the "a" - from the world's worst proofreader and obligatory serial editor of her posts.
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I can't understand how they can possibly keep track of their multiple identities. It's mind boggling. It is a bit like an online version of munchausen by proxy.
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I was just shocked at how much attention that ridiculous post received! Yes, I thought the post was ridiculous! And I had a hard time feeling empathy for her even if she is/wasn't a troll.
And now I'm on a 5 post/24 hour probation?! Sheesh!
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Lol! Welcome to the land of the deleted/censured!
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What puts you on a 5 post limit? One of my posts was removed as well.
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I wasn't sure whether or not to be insulted or proud!!
Love your avatar!
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I guess two or more post deleted at once puts you on a limit? I had two deleted yesterday. Oh crap. This will be my 4th post....I will have to create another username! Hmmmm... how 'bout Susansgardenonprobationcontinuedsothatshecanmakesomeadditionalposts?
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I thought it was odd - I saw that my original post was deleted by the community. So I got ticked off and decided to delete the other 3 or 4 posts that I had on that thread. You can go back and see that only one of mine was deleted by the community yet...............
I get a 2nd email stating a 2nd post of mine has been deleted but if you look back I had deleted it myself!
I had no idea about this 5 post limit, I would have left my other ones out there.
Ok, color me confused, sick as all crap, running a high fever, shouldn't be posting in the first place but did I shoot myself in my own foot by deleting my OWN POSTS?
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Check other threads you posted on. Someone may have deleted one of those.
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I swear .. that thread was the worst one ever ... so many people got deleted! It just wasn't right.
We're going to have to get a new shipment in of 'deleted' t-shirts for everyone!
Bren
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How about:
SusansgardenForcedtotakeaTimeout
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I was stunned to be put on probation after only 2 posts that werent abusive. If people thought my posts were abusive then they have never lived with real abuse. OY.....
But I was stunned that it only took *2*...TWO...to be pulled.
Anyone know if there is any recourse to challenge the autmated probation? And how long the probation lasts?
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Marie5980dm,
you can send a PM to Melissa (her member name is Moderator) and ask her to review the content of your posts. If she thinks they were wrongly deleted, she will undo the deletion, which should end your probation. And if she thinks they should have been deleted, at least she should be able to tell you how long the probation will last.
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For the record, here are the BCO rules regarding deletions. Needless to say, these are rarely heeded or enforced (note my bold):
Please report any violations of our Rules of Conduct, including:
- spam
- solicitations to buy products
- threatening, abusive, or hateful comments
Posts that are NOT inappropriate include:
- comments which simply have a different viewpoint as your viewpoint
- moderator-approved solicitations for interviews or events
Are you sure you want to report the following Post
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And here are the rules we are supposed to go by when posting:
Rules of Conduct
You must abide by the following rules when accessing or using the Breastcancer.org Online Community, including the Discussion Boards and Chat Rooms:
- You agree not to use this website for any unlawful purpose.
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My email citations states:
"If you have multiple posts removed by the Community, you will be temporarily banned from the Community."
I should have picked SusansBannedGarden.
My posts were pretty benign, and definitely not "threatening, abusive or hateful".
How frustratingly irritating that a few could have this much (abuse of) power.
Okay... I'll go back to my timeout chair now!
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