What do you think about the Essaic Story?
http://www.healthfreedom.info/Cancer Essiac.htm
The Truth About Essiac
Rene Caisse and her Herbal Cancer Treatment, ESSIAC
Authentic, Original Essiac Tea Formula Documentation
On a fateful day in 1922 Canadian nurse Rene Caisse happened to notice some scar tissue on the breast of an elderly English woman. The woman said that doctors had diagnosed her with breast cancer years before. However, the woman didn't want to risk surgery nor did she have the money for it.
The English woman had met an old Indian medicine man in the 1890s who told her that he could cure her cancer with an herbal tea. The woman took the medicine man's advice, and consequently she was still alive nearly thirty years later to pass on this herbal remedy to Nurse Caisse.
About a year later, Rene Caisse was walking beside a retired doctor who pointed to a common weed and stated: "Nurse Caisse, if people would use this weed there would be little cancer in the world." Rene later stated: "He told me the name of the plant. It was one of the herbs my patient named as an ingredient of the Indian medicine man's tea!" [I Was Canada's Cancer Nurse] The "weed" was sheep sorrel. In a 1974 letter to Dr. Chester Stock Rene Caisse stated: "Who in the world would ever think to find a solution to cancer in a common meadow?" [THE ESSENCE OF ESSIAC, p. 127]
In 1924 she decided to test the tea on her aunt who had cancer of the stomach and was given about six months to live. Her aunt lived for another 21 years, cancer free.
Rene Caisse (pronounced "Reen Case") later gave the tea to her 72-year old mother who was diagnosed with inoperable cancer of the liver, with only days to live. Her mother recovered and lived without cancer for another 18 years.
In the ensuing years Nurse Caisse refined and perfected the original "medicine man's" formula. She tested various herbal combinations on laboratory mice and on human cancer patients. She eventually reduced the tea to four herbs: burdock root, sheep sorrel, slippery elm and turkey rhubarb. She called the formula Essiac, which is her surname spelled backwards. [Read "I Was Canada's Cancer Nurse" for more details.]
Rene Caisse devoted over fifty years of her life to treating hundreds of cancer patients with Essiac. So effective were her treatments that in 1938 her supporters gathered 55,000 signatures for a petition, amongst other petitions, to allow Rene Caisse to continue treating cancer patients. A bill was introduced in the Ontario legislature to (allegedly) "authorise Rene Caisse to practice medicine in the Province of Ontario in the treatment of cancer and conditions therein". Due to the machinations of the medical establishment, the bill failed to pass by just three votes.
However, Rene Caisse made her views known regarding this bill which would set up the "Royal Cancer Commission" to investigate all possible cancer cures. She told the press: "The people of Ontario will be paying a group of men to develop something that was developed and discovered 15 years ago. I have developed and proven a cure right here in Bracebridge, and I am running a clinic where hundreds of cancer sufferers are being treated and helped. Why then should I be asked to give my formula over to a group of doctors who never did anything to earn it?" [CALLING OF AN ANGEL, p. 59.]
WHAT DID DOCTORS SAY ABOUT RENE CAISSE'S TEA?
Rene Caisse operated her cancer clinic under the supervision and observation of a number of doctors. Based on what those doctors saw with their own eyes, eight of them signed a petition to the Department of National Health and Welfare at Ottawa, asking that Nurse Caisse be given facilities to do independent research on her discovery. Their petition, dated at Toronto on October 27, 1926, read as follows:
To Whom It May Concern:
"We the undersigned believe that the 'Treatment for Cancer' given by Nurse R.M. Caisse can do no harm and that it relieves pain, will reduce the enlargement and will prolong life in hopeless cases. To the best of our knowledge, she has not been given a case to treat until everything in medical and surgical science has been tried without effect and even then she was able to show remarkable beneficial results on those cases at that late stage.
"We would be interested to see her given an opportunity to prove her work in a large way. To the best of our knowledge she has treated all cases free of any charge and has been carrying on this work over the period of the past two years."
Initially, Rene was not aware of the control that the medical/pharmaceutical establishment had over governments. After the petition was delivered to the National Health and Welfare Department, she was continually threatened with arrest until she finally withdrew from public view. Unlike Nurse Caisse, the medical establishment was more interested in making money than in helping people. Essiac was cheap. It could cut into the lucrative profits from radiation, chemotherapy and surgery--treatments that often do more harm than good. Essiac is non-toxic. Rene said, "Chemotherapy should be a criminal offense."
The story of Rene Caisse's struggle to make Essiac an official cancer treatment was told by Dr. Gary Glum in his book CALLING OF AN ANGEL: ESSIAC, NATURE'S CURE FOR CANCER. In a telephone conversation Dr. Glum stated that people who take Essiac on a regular, preventive basis do not get cancer. Dr. Glum interviewed JFK's personal physician, Dr. Charles Brusch, who stated: "I know Essiac has curing potential. It can lessen the condition of the individual, control it, and it can cure it."
Dr. Ralph Moss was appointed to the Cancer Advisory Panel that evaluates alternative cancer therapies for the government. On his web site and in his book CANCER THERAPY, Dr. Moss points out that each of the herbs in Essiac has been scientifically shown to contain anticancer substances. In his "Cancer Chronicles" [www.ralphmoss.com/essiac], Dr. Moss notes Essiac's rising popularity by comparing Essiac's low cost to a $150,000 bone marrow transplant.
ESSIAC--MORE THAN JUST A CANCER TREATMENT
Dr. Frederick Banting, the co-discoverer of insulin became interested in Essiac and even offered Nurse Caisse research facilities to test it. According to Rene, Dr. Banting stated that "Essiac must actuate the pancreatic gland into normal functioning". Even today diabetics are using Essiac to improve their condition and many have gone off insulin entirely. (For more information on diabetes and Essiac read the Dr. Marijah McCain interview.)
Essiac has become widely known for its remarkable ability to boost the immune system and detoxify the body. Many people who drink Essiac tea regularly report feeling healthier with less incidence of colds and flu. Burdock, for example, has a well-established reputation for detoxification and support of the liver and organs of elimination. To read about additional benefits of Essiac, CLICK HERE to read the interview with Dr. Marijah McCain.
BURDOCK ROOT
(Arctium lappa)
For centuries burdock root has been regarded as an effective blood purifier that neutralizes and eliminates poisons from the body. Burdock contains a volatile oil--especially in the seeds--that is eliminated through the sweat glands, taking toxins with it and alleviating skin problems. Burdock contains niacin, which is known to eliminate poisons from the body, including radiation. Burdock also supports the bladder, kidney and liver and has been said to dissolve kidney stones. It also contains an abundance of minerals, particularly iron. Studies have shown anti-tumor activity in burdock. Japanese scientists have isolated an anti-mutation property in burdock, which they call the "B factor". The Japanese grow burdock root for food as well as medicine. A memorandum from the World Health Organization revealed that burdock was active against HIV.
SHEEP SORREL
(Rumex acetosella)
Rene Caisse isolated sheep sorrel as the main Essiac herb that caused regression of metastasized cancer and reduction of tumors. She used the whole herb including sheep sorrel roots. Dr. Ralph Moss points out that sheep sorrel contains aloe emodin, a natural substance that shows significant anti-leukemic activity. Sheep sorrel contains antioxidants, is diuretic and has been used to check hemorrhages. Sheep sorrel is a traditional food of native cultures and is still served in fine restaurants along with other sorrels. CLICK HERE for more information about sheep sorrel.
SLIPPERY ELM
(Ulmus rubra/fulva)
The inner bark of the slippery elm tree is well-known for its soothing and healing properties. It reduces inflammations such as sore throat, diarrhea and urinary problems. It has been regarded as both a food and medicine. Dr. Moss noted that "slippery elm contains beta-sitosterol and a polysaccharide, both of which have shown [anti-cancer] activity.
TURKEY RHUBARB ROOT
(Rheum palmatum)
Turkey Rhubarb has been shown to have anti-tumor activity. It is diuretic, anti-inflammatory, anti-bacterial and has been used extensively to relieve constipation. It is medicinally more potent than garden rhubarb root and is more palatable. CLICK HERE for more information about the rhubarb root in Essiac tea.
CAVEAT EMPTOR*
Due to the ever-increasing popularity of Essiac, numerous entrepreneurs have jumped on the Essiac bandwagon with their own four, six, or eight-herb products. Unfortunately, Rene Caisse was very secretive. She never published the formula and it appears that she experimented with different herbal combinations. Therefore, it is understandable that there would be controversies over who has the correct formula or the best product. Curiously, ESSIAC didn't become a trademark name until several years after Dr. Glum published the Essiac recipe. Yellow dock or garden sorrel is sometimes substituted for sheep sorrel. Imported turkey rhubarb may be irradiated, fumigated or both. So how do you know if you are buying the real, unaltered Essiac?
Many people become confused about Essiac tea after visiting various web sites with conflicting information. Unfortunately, Rene is not alive today to remind people that it's all about "helping suffering humanity", not money. As Rene stated in "I Was Canada's Cancer Nurse", "respect and love of our fellow man are more important than riches." Sheila Snow, author of THE ESSENCE OF ESSIAC and co-author of ESSIAC ESSENTIALS and ESSIAC, THE SECRETS OF RENE CAISSE'S HERBAL PHARMACY, knew Rene Caisse personally and fortunately obtained a great deal of documentation to dispel much of the confusion about Essiac tea. Sheila Snow has passed on the Sheila Snow Fraser Essiac Archive Collection to Mali Klein, author of THE ESSIAC BOOK, 2006.
Essiac is truly a multi-cultural phenomenon. So here are the plain, non-commercial facts:
1) Essiac marketers often claim that Essiac is an Ojibwa Indian formula. In "I Was Canada's Cancer Nurse" Rene Caisse referred only to "a very old Indian medicine man" without naming any specific tribe. Sheila Snow and Mali Klein have researched this issue extensively from the Essiac Archives and found that "There is absolutely no evidence to support the popular assumption that he was a member of the Ojibwa tribe. There were six different tribes living in Northern Ontario at that time, including Algonquin [Anishinabeg], Cree, Cherokee, Huron, Iroquois and Ojibwa as well as the refugees from other tribes in the United States, who were fleeing north of the border from the Indian wars."
2) Turkey rhubarb (Rheum palmatum) is native to China and Tibet, not northern Ontario, so it appears unlikely that it was a part of the original medicine man's formula of indigenous herbs in the late 1800s. Even today turkey rhubarb has still not established itself as a wild herb of North America [North America was originally called Turtle Island before the European Invasion and subsequent Holocaust]. "The [Turkey] rhubarb rhizome official in the British Pharmacopoeia, 1914, must be collected in China and Thibet. English-grown rhubarb is inferior to the official rhubarb in medicinal qualities."* Even the 1931 edition of A MODERN HERBAL reports that "We still depend upon Northern China and Thibet for Rhubarb."* In Rene's Caisse's "I Was Canada's Cancer Nurse" she stated that the original formula came from an "old Indian [who] showed her certain herbs growing...in the the wilds of Northern Ontario." So far I have not seen any evidence that the Chinese herb Turkey rhubarb was growing in the wilds of Northern Ontario in the late 1800s. It is quite possible that Turkey rhubarb may have been an Asian-sourced modification made by Rene Caisse in her efforts to refine the formula.
It has been suggested that Turkey rhubarb could have been purchased in Canada in the late 1800s but Rene Caisse specifically stated that the "old medicine man's" herbs were growing "in the wilds of Northern Ontario", not purchased. Rhubarb first appeared in North America in the late 1700s but only as a garden plant. Rhubarb does not have the invasive potential that burdock and sheep sorrel do as it needs to be planted and tended as a garden vegetable. Therefore, it is unlikely that it would have somehow naturally established itself "in the wilds of Northern Ontario" in the first 100 years of being introduced to North America.
However, there is an edible plant that is mistakenly called "wild rhubarb" that is indigenous to Canada. When cooked, the juicy, bright red stems that appear soon after the snow melts resemble rhubarb. However, it is does not belong to the same genus as Rheum palmatum or Rheum officinale, but rather to the Polygonum genus. It is known by many names in many places as Knotweed, Bistort, American Bamboo (though not a bamboo either), Heartweed, Smartweed, Snakeweed, Serpentgrass, Lady's Thumb, Water Pepper and, of course, "Wild Rhubarb". "The delectable member of the family known as Polygonum bistorta thrives in the dry tundra of Alaska and northern Canada, even north of the limit of trees where Polygonum viviparum is also to be found. Extremely common in the Yukon and Northwest Territories, on the long McKenzie River and its tributaries as far north as the tree line, is the P. alpinum, which is more usually known there as Wild Rhubarb." [Field Guide to Edible Wild Plants by Bradford Angier] This is a plant that could have been part of the original "old medicine man's" recipe for the English woman with breast cancer. It is then conceivable that either the English woman or Rene Caisse switched to the true rhubarbs from Asia as a substitute--Or perhaps Rene Caisse didn't realize the difference between the native "Wild Rhubarb" and Asian/European rhubarb and she may have always used true rhubarb. After all, she was a mainstream medicine nurse, not an herbalist. The term "wild rhubarb" has even been applied to burdock and yellow dock, so pin-pointing the exact genus and species of this particular herb is difficult at best. There are many different plants that have similarities to rhubarb. Western Dock (Rumex occidentalis), for example, is also called "Indian rhubarb" [TRADITIONAL PLANT FOODS OF CANADIAN INDIGENOUS PEOPLES, p. 225]. Nurse Caisse also used "Rheum officinale" which is often called "Indian rhubarb" because it came from Asia by way of the trade route through India. Unfortunately, Rene was so secretive about the Essiac formula we will probably never know the whole story. CLICK HERE for more information about "Turkey rhubarb" and "Indian rhubarb".
Since the modern North American diet of over-processed foods can cause chronic constipation which can promote cancer, the addition of turkey rhubarb in the formula appears to have been a wise one. One of the first benefits that I noticed when I first began drinking Essiac tea was that my bowel movements normalized. After drinking Essiac tea for four years, I embarked on a thorough colon cleanse and discovered that my colon was already clean from daily use of Essiac tea. Several well-known American herbalists believe that 80 to 95 percent of all illnesses are due to unclean colons. Turkey rhubarb is now being grown commercially in North America, and that may very well be due to the ever-increasing popularity of Essiac tea.
3) Burdock and sheep sorrel are not native to North America. It appears that both burdock and sheep sorrel were brought to this continent from Europe by early settlers who then passed on their knowledge of these two herbs to the local tribes. Burdock and sheep sorrel eventually spread throughout North America where water was sufficient. Unfortunately, they are often referred to as invasive "weeds". Rene Caisse indicated that sheep sorrel was one of the original herbs, so it appears that sheep sorrel had migrated to "the wilds of Northern Ontario" before the 1890s. Burdock could have also established itself in Northern Ontario by then.
4) Slippery elm is the only Essiac herb native to North America.
In spite of the numerous, conflicting claims as to what the original Indian "medicine" man's formula was, no one has yet offered any verifiable evidence to settle that issue. Some claim it was a four-herb formula while others claim it was an eight-herb, six or seven-herb formula. Many of these claims state that turkey rhubarb was one of the original herbs, which did not grow "in the wilds of Northern Ontario". Rene Caisse did experiment with a number of herbs and changed the formula through time. It does appear that she gave different Essiac tea formulas to different people to try to find the best one. She also appeared to "thrive on intrigue" to throw people off the trail to guard her secrets. [See THE ESSIAC BOOK by Mali Klein]. Therefore, it is easy to see why so many people are marketing different versions of "Essiac" tea, all claiming to have the right one. However, she finally settled on her four-herb formula before she died. This four-herb formula was demonstrated by Rene Caisse and untold cancer patients to be an effective, health-giving remedy that has stood the test of time . However, Mali Klein, now the custodian of the Sheila Snow Fraser Essiac Archive Collection, reveals more untold stories, more Essiac mysteries, and sheds new light on the Essiac phenomenon in THE ESSIAC BOOK.
The only person Rene Caisse trusted to help her make Essiac tea was her best friend, Mary McPherson. Mary had worked alongside Rene since the 1930s and knew the formula by heart. According to Dr. Gary Glum, Mary had promised Rene never to reveal the formula to anyone. The Essiac formula might never have made it into the public domain had it not been for Dr. Glum. He purchased the formula for $120,000 from one of Rene's former patients. Dr. Glum could have kept the formula secret and become very wealthy selling bottles of Essiac. However, he unselfishly released the formula into the public domain in 1988. At first he offered the formula on a video tape that he advertised in his book, CALLING OF AN ANGEL, but the feds unlawfully seized the tapes before he could sell very many of them. He then gave out the formula and recipe free of charge to anyone who mailed him a request for the Essiac formula.
When Dr. Glum met Mary McPherson in Bracebridge, Ontario and told her what the Essiac formula was, she was more than a little surprised. According to Dr. Glum, Mary eventually revealed the formula in 1994 because it was no longer a secret, and she wanted to end the controversy over the Essiac formula before she died. Therefore, on December 23, 1994 the "Essiac" formula & recipe was officially entered into the public domain with the recording of Mary McPherson's affidavit.
In "I Was Canada's Canada Nurse" Rene Caisse stated one reason why she wanted to keep the formula secret: "I wanted to establish my remedy, which I called ESSIAC or my name spelled backward, in actual practice and not in a laboratory only. I knew it had no bad side affects, so it could do no harm. I wanted to use it on patients in my own way. And when the time came, I wanted to share in the administration of my own discovery."
Another reason why Rene kept the Essiac formula secret was that she didn't trust people to make it properly and she thought that it would be altered. For example, several years after Dr. Gary Glum published the four-herb Essiac formula and gave it away free of charge, Canadian talk show host Elaine Alexander marketed an eight-herb formula, which included the four herbs that Dr. Glum published. Her marketing campaign proclaimed that Essiac's "new name was "FLOR ESSENCE" [R]. She subsequently died of cancer. Even today a common misconception still exists that Elaine Alexander's formula is Rene Caisse's authentic Essiac formula. However, Mary McPherson's recorded affidavit settled that controversy in 1994. This eight-herb formula appears to be Dr. Charles Brusch's own formula, not Rene Caisse's Essiac formula.
Furthermore, it appears that there were unethical activities made in the marketing of Elaine Alexander's and Dr. Brusch's formula. Claims were made that Dr. Charles Brusch knew the formula. However, researchers Sheila Snow and Mali Klein stated in their book THE SECRETS OF RENE CAISSE'S HERBAL PHARMACY (p. 13): "Considering Sheila's 16 years' association with Dr Brusch and his wife, and examining the evidence of the letters exchanged between them and with Mary McPherson, we must conclude that we do not believe that Rene ever gave Dr Brusch the Essiac formula. Therefore we must question any subsequent claims by people associated with Dr Brusch as having access to the original Essiac formula." Rene Caisse told Sheila Snow: "I didn't give it [the Essiac formula] to Doctor Brusch and I'm not giving it to anyone else." [THE ESSIAC BOOK, p. 74] It also appears that Dr. Brusch's name was forged on false documents. Dr. Brusch's wife, Jane, stated: "I am infuriated over all the different things I am hearing. I can't believe that so many people are using Charlie's name and the things they are coming up with -- old signatures etc -- requests for peoples' records and histories -- all lies. I turn all these over to our lawyer -- I am dumbfounded." CLICK HERE for more information about this situation.
Every herbal formula has its own synergy and therefore creates a specific effect. Rene Caisse spent her life refining the formula with her hands-on research. No one else has done such extensive research on Essiac tea. The formula below was the final formula that she settled on after more than fifty years of experimentation and research with real cancer patients. Rene Caisse stated: "If it works, don't change it." [ESSIAC ESSENTIALS, p. 84]
THE FORMULA
The following formula and recipe for Essiac (in italics) is a word-for-word transcription of the Essiac formula from the affidavit which Mary McPherson filed with the Town of Bracebridge. CLICK HERE to view a certified true copy of Mary McPherson's two-page affidavit. The formula below is also the one which Dr. Gary Glum released to the public in 1988 when he published CALLING OF AN ANGEL: ESSIAC, NATURE'S CURE FOR CANCER.
Essiac
6 ½ cups of burdock root (cut) (upper left)
1 pound of sheep sorrel herb powdered (upper right)
1/4 pound of slippery elm bark powdered (lower left)
1 ounce of Turkish rhubarb root powdered (lower right)
Mix these ingredients thoroughly and store in glass jar in dark dry cupboard.
Take a measuring cup, use 1 ounce of herb mixture to 32 ounces of water depending on the amount you want to make.
I use 1 cup of mixture to 8 x 32 = 256 ounces of water. Boil hard for 10 minutes (covered) then turn off heat but leave sitting on warm plate over night (covered).
In the morning heat steaming hot and let settle a few minutes, then strain through fine strainer into hot sterilized bottles and sit to cool. Store in dark cool cupboard. Must be refrigerated when opened. When near the last when its thick pour in a large jar and sit in frig overnight then pour off all you [can] without sediment.
This recipe must be followed exactly as written.
I use a granite preserving kettle (10 – 12 qts), 8 ounce measuring cup, small funnel and fine strainer to fill bottles.
ADDITIONAL TIPS & INFORMATION
The preparation of Essiac is as important as the formula itself. Essiac is a decoction, not an infusion. An infusion is what people make when they put a tea bag in a cup of hot water. Generally speaking, an infusion tends to extract vitamins and volatile oils. A decoction is used to extract minerals, bitter components, etc. from hard materials such as roots, bark or seeds by boiling for a few minutes and then allowing the herbs to steep for several hours. Entrepreneurs often sell Essiac imitations in tincture form (herbs in alcohol) or in gelatin capsules; neither form is Essiac because Essiac is a tea and, more specifically, a decoction that must be made in a certain way in order to achieve the kind of results that Nurse Caisse was demonstrating.
People often substitute stainless steel for an enameled pot and lid. The main concern is not to use an aluminum pot. Also, be sure not to use unfiltered, chlorinated water. The formula above can be reduced to 1/2 cup of herb mix to one gallon of water. [Optional: Dr. Glum suggests adding 2 or 3 cups of extra water to replace water lost through evaporation during boiling. Also, the dry herbs will absorb water as well.] After boiling for ten minutes, let the tea steep about 12 hours. Then heat up tea to steaming, but not boiling. (Do not boil twice.) The remaining pulp can be used for healing poultices.
Don't use cheese cloth to strain Essiac. Likewise, do not use a kitchen sieve that has a very fine mesh as this may filter out the slippery elm. Slippery elm gives the tea a slight viscous consistency when poured. If you do not notice this "slippery" consistency after refrigerating your tea, you may be using a sieve that is too fine. Don't worry about herb particles in your Essiac; they will settle to the bottom of the jars. Some people drink the Essiac dregs (particles that settle on the bottom), others don't. Some people give the Essiac dregs to their pets or farm animals as a health food. Many people have reported the same or similar health benefits with their pets that humans are reporting. The dregs can also be used topically as a poultice.
It is best to refrigerate the Essiac tea as soon as it has cooled. Discard the tea if mold appears on the surface or if the tea does not taste right. CLICK HERE to learn about dosage.
Make sure that the sheep sorrel you use is the small, wild variety of sheep sorrel and not a substitute like yellow dock or garden (French) sorrel. Imported turkey rhubarb root could be fumigated or irradiated. Many Essiac merchants are unaware of the quality of their herbs. The best way to insure that you're getting true Essiac is to grow the herbs yourself. This puts you in control of product quality and takes out the commercialism. Burdock root is harvested in the fall of the first year. Slippery elm bark is wildcrafted or organically-grown and is easy to buy. Turkey Rhubarb is the only herb in Essiac that cannot be wildcrafted in the US. The Chinese use six year old turkey rhubarb roots for maximum potency. EssiacUS.com usually has some Essiac herb seeds.
*Quotes about Turkey rhubarb are from A MODERN HERBAL, first published by Jonathan Cape, 1931
The article above was written by Lanny Messinger, the original webmaster for this web site, who is now retired.
"We all have the right to benefit from Essiac because no one can stop us making it, no one can stop us taking it and no one can stop us deciding how and when we're going to do it." [THE ESSIAC BOOK by Mali Klein, 2006]
The Essiac tea in the snow on a foggy January morning (picture above left) was made using the Essiac formula given above. Compare the tea color in this picture to the tea that Rene Caisse herself holds in her hand in this YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k_nW-b-XmQ.
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ESSIAC QUESTIONS? The Essiac trilogy by Sheila Snow and Mali Klein, ESSIAC ESSENTIALS, THE SECRETS OF RENE CAISSE'S HERBAL PHARMACY and THE ESSIAC BOOK are necessary to understand how to use Essiac to treat cancer. These books are the most researched and documented books available that reveal the secrets of how Rene Caisse successfully treated so many cancer patients. These books cut through most of the disinformation on the internet about Essiac tea and are usually available through EssiacUS.com. ESSIAC ESSENTIALS and the SECRETS OF RENE CAISSE'S HERBAL PHARMACY are no longer in print and are now collectors' items. THE ESSIAC BOOK will soon be going out of print to become a collector's item as well. However, Mali Klein is editing a compilation of the Sheila Snow/Mali Klein Essiac Trilogy entitled THE COMPLETE ESSIAC ESSENTIALS. The US edition may be available by the end of 2010.
* ESSIAC INFO * * ESSIAC FAQ *
* CLICK HERE to find the proper herbs to make Essiac tea *
Rene Caisse stated: "My decoction is a non-toxic drink made from herbs which are of definite benefit for cancer." [THE ESSENCE OF ESSIAC, p. 122-3]
According to the American Medical Association, drugs approved by the FDA kill over 100,000 Americans every year! According to a 174-page report by the U.S. National Poison Data System the number of people killed in 2009 across America by vitamins, minerals, amino acids or herbal supplements is exactly zero!
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Comments
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I drink it. I started at diagnosis. The MRI/US and mammo all said I had a 3 cm mass. It was 1.9cm at excision. I am convinced it was the tea.
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I lived about 20 minutes from Bracebridge and never heard of her. Never heard of the "Canadain host Alexander" either. But, I do live in Alliston now and have known for a long time about Banting and Best and their insulin discovery. That was certainly accepted by Canada. If there was a cancer "cure" I guarantee you that it would be presented to the world! After all, aspirin is from birch bark, and that is cheap.
Why would Rene's patient have a "scar" if she had no surgery? And how the heck did they get a You-tube of someone who would have to be dead for quite a while now?
I am always leery of the "Big Pharma" conspiracy stories. They could make this tea and still charge us $1,000's and we'd still pay it! The fact that it is made from cheap materials doesn't lessen it's validity. If it works. I would think that no one in Ontario would have cancer if her story was that good. I live in Ontario.
Hey, I'm just sayin'......
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I don't believe it is a cure but it can't hurt and I think it helped me.
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I'm with you Barbe - live in Ontario now and have lived off and on all over Canada - Best and Banting - very well known - Essaic never heard of it till now and frankly does anyone know if it is, in fact, dangerous - once again - run it by your onc before trying.
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There have been several threads in the past about Essaic and FlorEssence. In the thread "Anybody using essaic tea as complementary therapy" NativeMainer posted the following: There hasn't been much scientific research on Essiac, but the little I can find indicates it may promote breast cancer growth rather than prevent or reverse it. Here's the site for the report:
http://www.cbcrp.org/research/PageGrant.asp?grant_id=2101
My personal experience is in line with the report and is the exact the opposite of BarbaraA's experience, my tumor went from initial 1.5 cm measured size to over 3 cm when removed, all the while using Essaic,
Here's the report:
Evaluation of Essiac Tea to Prevent Mammary Tumors
Institution: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Investigator(s): Kristen Kulp , Ph.D. - Award Cycle: 2001 (Cycle VII) Grant #: 7IB-0003 Award: $182,593 Award Type: IDEA Research Priorities Prevention & Risk Reduction>Other searches for the causes
Initial Award Abstract (2001)
Breast cancer will be diagnosed in 18,000 Californian women in 2001. Preventing breast cancer, both primary tumors and recurrences, is preferable to treating disease. The purpose of this research is to determine if Essiac tea, a complementary therapy widely self-administered by breast cancer survivors and patients, prevents breast cancer. Complementary therapies are not always discussed with physicians. When alternative approaches are discussed, counseling is hindered by large gaps in knowledge about safety, efficacy, and potential drug interactions. Essiac Tea, an herbal mixture introduced in the 1920's to treat cancer, is commonly used today by breast cancer survivors to try to prevent recurrence. The biological activities of the individual herbs used in one Essiac tea formulation have characteristics associated with decreasing cancer risk. Many herbs used in Essiac tea have long histories of use in Asian diets and medicines. In spite of its potential benefits, Essiac tea is not the subject of any published reports evaluating its efficacy to prevent breast cancer. Because it is widely used, it is important to fill the knowledge gap about the ability of Essiac tea to prevent cancer.The central question addressed by this application is: "To what extent does Essiac tea treatment reduce mammary tumor development in rodents?" The ducts of the mammary gland, through which milk is delivered to the suckling newborn, can be visualized as tree branches. We expect that Essiac exposure will reduce tumors and that this reduction will be associated with changes in the branching pattern of the mammary tree.
Two mammalian models (models with mammary glands) will be used to determine if drinking Essiac tea can reduce cancer development. Mammary tumor inhibition by Essiac tea will be studied in rats that are treated with a chemical to induce tumors. This approach is well-described and its use in tumor prevention studies is well-accepted by the scientific community. A mouse model will be used that develops mammary tumors because the Neu oncogene (a cancer gene) is overactive which results in uncontrolled cell growth in the mammary ducts. Thirty percent of breast tumors make too much of the Her-2/Neu cancer protein; patients with this type of breast tumor have lower survival and an increased risk of metastasis than other breast cancer patients. In this study, the number of animals with tumors, the average number of tumors per animal, and the complexity of ductal branching will be compared between Essiac tea treated and untreated animals.
This proposal is unique because it will rigorously test Essiac tea for its ability to prevent mammary tumors in well established animal models. In addition to the evaluation of Essiac on tumor development, ductal branching patterns will also be studied. If Essiac tea does not inhibit or increases mammary tumor development, this information could be used to direct patients to other complementary therapies. If mammary tumors are inhibited by Essiac tea, this would open doors to perform studies in cancer survivors to evaluate the ability of Essiac tea to prevent recurrence and to determine how our daughters might benefit from its use with population studies. In addition, studies would be designed to determine how Essiac tea works, what affect it has on the body, and if there are herbal-drug interactions. These studies would be necessary to develop science-based recommendations for its use among Californians.
Final Report (2003)
Women diagnosed with breast cancer often self-administer complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) to augment conventional treatments, improve health, or prevent recurrence. Approximately 50% of patients using CAM don't inform their physicians and if they do counseling is often hindered by the lack of scientific knowledge about CAM. Breast cancer patients and survivors use herbal tonics like Essiac® and Flor-Essence® Herbal Tonics because of anecdotal evidence that they can treat or prevent disease. Flor-Essence® is a complex mixture of eight herbal extracts. The eight individual herbs have estrogenic, cytotoxic, anti-tumor, anti-mutagenic, anti-oxidant, and anti-inflammatory properties, among others. There have been no scientific studies done to evaluate these herbal tonics in cells, animal models, or clinical trials.This project had two specific aims:
- To determine if Essiac exposure reduces mammary tumor incidence and/or multiplicity in rats treated with dimethylbenz[a]anthracene (DMBA), a well-recognized mammary gland carcinogen. The DMBA rat model of mammary carcinogenesis is a well accepted model in which to study mammary tumor prevention
- To determine if Essiac exposure inhibits mammary tumor development in (MMTV)c-neu transgenic mice, a mouse model in which mammary tumors develop spontaneously due to c-neu oncogene over-expression. This model is relevant to humans because patients whose breast tumors overexpress Her-2/Neu have reduced survival and an increased risk of metastasis compared to patients whose tumors do not. Approximately 30% of breast tumors overexpress the Her-2/Neu oncogene
We made progress in both aims as follows:
- Specific Aim 1: This aim has been successfully completed. Female rats were given water or a 3% or 6% solution of Flor-Essence® Herbal Tonic for 23 weeks beginning at one day of age. They were given a single oral dose of DMBA (40 mg/kg body weight) at 7 weeks of age to induce mammary tumors. At the end of the study 82% of the Flor-Essence® treated rats had palpable tumors compared to 71% in the control group. Pysiologically relevant concentraions of Flor-Essence® did not inhibit mammary tumor development but instead appeared to promote it.
- Specific Aim 2: The animal work for this aim has been completed. (MMTV)c-neu transgenic mice were treated with 3% Flor-Essence® in utero, from birth to weaning, over their lifetime, or not at all to determine if timing of Flor-Essence® exposure had an effect on mammary tumor development in this model. Although the data have not been analyzed for statistical significance, preliminary results suggest that the mice consuming lifetime Flor-Essence® had fewer tumors than the other groups. However the overall survivability of this group suggests that the Flor-Essence® had a negative impact on their health.
The results from Specific Aim 1 suggest Flor-Essence® promotes the growth of DMBA-induced rat mammary tumors, although the results from Aim 2 suggest that in some instances some part of this complex mixture may be protective. Women who purchase Flor-Essence® after having been diagnosed with breast cancer use it in hopes that it will cure disease or prevent recurrence. It is important to understand the biologic consequences of self-administration of commercially available CAM on the breast. These studies are necessary for consumers and physicians to make informed decisions about CAM use.
Symposium Abstract (2003)
Women diagnosed with breast cancer often self-administer complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) to augment conventional treatments, improve health, or prevent recurrence. Physician counseling about the use of these products is often hindered by the lack of scientific knowledge about CAM. Breast cancer patients and survivors use herbal tonics like Essiac® and Flor-Essence® because of anecdotal evidence that the tonics can treat or prevent disease. Essiac® is a combination of four herbal extracts and Flor-Essence® adds four additional extracts to the basic recipe. The individual herbs have estrogenic, cytotoxic, anti-tumor, anti-mutagenic, anti-oxidant, and anti-inflammatory properties, among others. There have been no scientific studies done to evaluate these herbal tonics in cells, animal models, or clinical trials.We are using cellular and animal models to evaluate the consequences of Flor-Essence® and Essiac® exposure on the breast. Cell proliferation assays in estrogen receptor positive (MCF-7) and estrogen receptor negative (MDA-MB-436) breast cancer cells demonstrated that exposures ranging from 1 to 8% Essiac® and Flor-Essence® stimulate growth up to 180% compared to untreated cells. There is no significant difference in growth stimulation between Essiac® and Flor-Essence® in either cell type. In estrogen receptor activation assays, Essiac® and Flor-Essence® stimulate estrogen receptors to levels similar to physiological estrogen and genestein. Flor-Essence® also stimulates the growth of DMBA-induced mammary tumors in Sprague Dawley rats. Female rats are given a 3% or 6% solution of Flor-Essence® or water alone for 23 weeks beginning at one day of age. DMBA is administered at 7 weeks of age to induce mammary tumors. At 16 weeks of age, control rats had a palpable mammary tumor incidence of 16% compared to 40% in the 3% and 27% in the 6% Flor-Essence® treated groups. At the end of the study 82% and 86% of rats treated with 3% and 6% Flor-Essence® had palpable tumors, respectively, compared to 71% in the control group. The average number of tumors observed was approximately 2-fold greater in the treated compared to control group. Preliminary results suggest that Flor-Essence® administration does not affect tumor development in mice with a mutated Her2/Neu gene. However administration during gestation has a persistent influence on body weight of the female offspring.
Both Essiac® and Flor-Essence® have growth promoting effects on some breast cancer cells and Flor-Essence® promotes tumor growth in DMBA treated rats. These studies are important for the development of science-based recommendations for CAM use among women in our communities. This work was performed under the auspices of the U. S. Department of Energy by the University of California, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory under Contract No. W-7405-Eng-48. The work was supported by the California Breast Cancer Research Program # 7IB-0003 and LDRD funding #02-FS-006.
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Wow. Hey, I'm just sayin'....
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Barbe,
I really wish you'd head over to the fungal theory thread going on now. It just gets more and more "out there," if you know what I mean, and it's basically just a conversation now between two women who are bound and determined to prove everyone wrong. I guess people want to believe what they want to believe, but if there were a miracle cure, I think we'd know about it.
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digger...first..I don't know if you realize that I started this thread on essaic. I am also one of the people that you speak about on the fungal theory thread although there are more supporters than myself who have commented there. I consider your above statement slanderous and a real put down. The fungal thread is not offering the cure for cancer. It is rather a discussion on fungal theory in relationship to cancer. It is not about being right. I am very open to correction if someone can actually prove I'm off track. I have no problem with saying I'm wrong, when I can see truly I' am. Impositive is merely answering the questions that come up on that thread and I feel she has done it well. I have done a lot of study in regard to that theory lately due to the candida infection I had...just happens to be relevant to me right now.
I hope that we live in a free country where we have the right to discuss such a theory. You and a few naysayers of holistic medicine think such a discussion apparently shouldn't happen here on bco. Apparently anything outside of conventional medicine is wacko for some people. I' came to that thread sitting on the fence about that theory, but more and more study proves to me that there is a strong connection between fungus and cancer. John Hopkins even noted that fungi lie in cancer cells.
I would hope that on the alternative threads especially in regard to whatever treatment or ideas we have that we would show the upmost respect for one another. This is only human kindness.
I hope that on this thread that those posting would stick to the Essaic story. This is not the thread to bash the fungal theory or anyone who comments to the essaic story one way or the other.
Since I now have bc, I am hoping that those who have tried essaic will share their story. I haven't made a decision one way or another if I'll use it along with other treatment.
We are human beings who all have suffered enough with bc. We don't need to come to BCO to be bashed or hurt with sarcasm or rude comments.
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I'm not bashing you, barry, and I must say I don't understand your saying "I now have breast cancer." What did you have the previous two times? People are trying to save your life, barry, whether you realize it or not.
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digger...The first two cancers were removed by a lumpectomy. After the lumpectomies, I felt that I was cancer free. My goal after the first two cancers was cancer prevention and careful screenings. The new cancer that I was dx with last week has not yet been surgically removed...so yes, I now have cancer in my breast. The cancer I now have is a new primary cancer. So, I did have cancer a few years ago, and I now presently have cancer. I usually visit the boards around screening time (Spring & Fall) and while here I got hooked on the fascinating fungal theory thread. Also my screenings were delayed do to change of docs.(my second breast surgeon moved out of state).
I also want to say it's been a two year journey to come to grips with why my body broke down in the first place. I've learned since second dx I'm hypothyroid and a lot more. Taking charge of my own health has given me the motivation to change for the better.
Now to share with you how I felt put down or bashed.
When you said...basically that what' we are talking about is
1. "Out there" ... implies that we're off the wall? crazy?
2. Conversation between two women ... in truth there have been several people who have contributed either nay or yea or just given an opinion.
3. We're trying to prove everyone wrong...when in reality we're answering questions or
for myself, looking more into the fungal theory. I've thanked those who corrected me when I've been in error.
4. Assuming we believe only what we want to believe implies that we are ignoring facts. I just refuse to regurgitate what I'm suppose to say by what is commonly told us to be "politically correct". Since, doctors have made a few major mistakes with me (my family too) and leaving me with a permanent disability in my right hand (artist), I've learned to think for myself. And, I was given two prescriptions this summer at the same time that could had adversely affected me. I went home and researched the two drugs and saw for myself that I was at risk taking them both together. The pharmacy had no problem taking one of them back. I think most women who come to the alternative board are here because we're researchers, and we are looking for more than what we can find in conventional medicine.
I also feel that everyone else has the freedom to believe whatever way out ideas they have as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. There's nothing suggested in the fungal thread that is going to kill anyone...good food? supplements? Medicine prescribed by our doctor? I've read nothing strange on the fungal theory thread or anything that is going to hurt the human body. We are not trying to kill people in killing the yeast in our bodies. Also no one on the fungal thread is telling people not to do conventional treatment.
5. Miracle cure...I don't think anyone on the fungal theory thread is promoting a cancer miracle cure. There are anti-fungal foods and medicine that can help. I wish there was a miracle cure...we're just looking at studies or foods (herbs) that will help us ...
This all should had been answered on the fungal thread...I hate answering it here, but wanted to respond to your question and since this was brought up here, I felt I needed to answer it.
Last...who is trying to save my life? I've learned that I am my best advocate. I am not going to blindly follow anyone. How I live and what treatment I chose is solely my decision...not my doctors or anyone on this thread. This has been an emotional day so you're getting two emotional responses. -
Hi Barry,
How are you doing today?
I'm sorry you felt "bashed," but I'd be willing to bet that isn't what anyone meant. From my perspective, you're in a very serious situation, being diagnosed with breast cancer for the third time. You're choosing a treatment path that goes against the grain of evidence-based scientific/medical protocol, so it naturally brings a strong emotional response from those of us who care. In this case, it's not us versus them or right/wrong, and it doesn't mean I/we don't respect your right to choose your own path - it's just that if you were my sister/mother/aunt/friend/whatever, I'd definitely want you to know that there are evidence based treatments (both conventional and integrative) that can help improve your odds for successful treatment. And there are scams, hypothetical "theories" and just plain nonsense "treatments" that will do nothing for you or even cause harm.
You asked "what do you think about the Essiac Story?" My personal opinion is maybe this tea has some beneficial overall health benefits and maybe not. I'd certainly read the warnings and investigate the potential risks, but it isn't going to cure your invasive cancer. You need serious, proven, evidence-based cancer treatment. Leave the experimentation to the researchers or those in more benign situations, who have nothing to lose. You do.
You're in a very unfortunate situation, and some of us feel strongly that you should be aggressive in your treatment. You know how I feel, and now I'll butt out and respect your choices ;-D You have my sincere support whatever you choose.
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thenewme, if it wasn't what digger meant then she should explain herself...because I could read it no other way.
You said...
You're choosing a treatment path that goes against the grain of evidence-based scientific/medical protocol...
ok..the problem I have here is that I see no evidence-based scientific/medical proof for aggressive cancer treatment. Women are constantly put through trial drug and chemo studies. I do not wish to ever be a guinea pig. Science does not have a long term track record for the new drugs coming out. And...when I went through menopause they gave me a prescription for premarian which probably caused my breast cancer in the first place.
I'm not placing my life into the hands of science. Agree, there is good in the medical establishment (I love my doctors)...not throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Plus, I've had friends who suffered through cancer treatments...horrible deaths. I've read through a lot of the stage !V threads and see how many have suffered.
Have you ever seen the movie COMA ... I would feel like one of those victims if chemo ran through my veins. Gives me the shivers to think about it.
Last to say, I know that my life and times are in God's hands. I am not worried about dying. I would prefer living while I'm alive...quality of life is more important than longevity.
Thank you thenewme for your sincere support. I appreciate it...honestly. EB -
thenewme...thanks for your comments about the Essiac Story. If I were to drink essiac tea, I would do it along with the other immune boosters. I find the story interesting, and would love to chat with someone who has tried it.
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I was on Essiac Tea for about one and a half years. A long term stage IV survivor I know said it was one of the first alternatives he researched and has taken for years. Unfortunately way back when, when he was first diagnosed, sheep sorrel (one of the four ingredients) was banned in Australia. He moved for a spell to Canada because he was hopeful, intrigued and impressed with the teas history. Not long after, the tea was finally being sold in a small town in Australia. He has always maintained that it made him feel great. Actually his wife developed stage 1 breast cancer, and also takes it...she is a 9 yr survivor. I ran out of it several times...but didn't rush out to but it. Why? Well, because it kind of smells like a dirty ashtray...to me anyway. But know reading what BarbaraA wrote...my story is similar. My MRI/Mammo/US all said I had about a 3cm mass...and it was a little over 1cm after excision (Quite a coinkydinky. It's readily available now in most health food shops - Might just start back on it...it keeps well in the fridge.
Victoria
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Barry, I'll be 53 this year and knew that hormone replacement therapy for menopause can cause breast cancer. I've known that for at least 20 years. How could it not be known by your doctors? I don't get it.....
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I see that there are several websites (mostly commercial ones) about Essiac. I've known about Rene Caisse and her formula ever since the Ontario government was petitioned to provide funds to study its effectiveness in the 1970's. The research took place at the Ontario Cancer Institute in Toronto. Since Ms Caisse would not release her exact formula, the studies used variations of the same 8 ingredients, but found that none were effective in causing either remission or cures for its patients at Princess Margaret Hospital. BTW, the government would have been absolutely thrilled if Essiac was actually cancer's magic bullet, since Canada has non-profit universal healthcare and it would have saved billions of dollars.
Now, moving on to present-day. I have a nephew who lives in the Bracebridge ON area, who was dx'd last year with bone cancer (which started in the prostate, with absolutely NO symptoms). His wife has a close, much older friend who prepares Essiac tea from Ms Caisse's original recipe (which was handed down to her by her mother, who worked alongside Ms Caisse) and provides it to him on a weekly basis, for free. Along with hormone therapy, he is doing exceedingly well, is pain-free and is having good scans. Is the tea a contributing factor? They don't know, but he will continue with it.
As for the products out on the market, it's anybody's guess if they are effective at all, but if you can afford it, and it makes you feel good, keep drinking it!
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Very interesting article...I'll have to reread it to get the full gist of it. My husband and I used to use Essiac (The original, her face on the box, 4 ingredients) back in the 90's as it was marketed as a blood purifier and for cancer prevention. I actually like the taste. I see people still confuse Essiac with FlorEssence and it drives me mad, LOL. Red Clover is in FlorEssence and it's a powerful phytoestrogen that none of my research claims any benefit to breast tumours (unlike flax). Anyways, ahead a few years and my husband gets colorectal cancer. I cooked the Essiac religiously for him as well as fed him an alternative diet/supplements. To my huge disappointment, none of it worked, but then again it was designed for breast cancer not colorectal cancer. I have not used it for my breast cancer because I'm still looking for convincing studies that it will help, not hinder. That's all the info I have about it. Thanks for the article, I'll save in my research file.
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digger wrote:
"Barbe,
I really wish you'd head over to the fungal theory thread going on now. It just gets more and more "out there," if you know what I mean, and it's basically just a conversation now between two women who are bound and determined to prove everyone wrong. I guess people want to believe what they want to believe, but if there were a miracle cure, I think we'd know about it."
I totally understand WHY Barry feels as though she is being bashed and from my perspective SHE IS being bashed by you certainly digger and I imagine Barbie is doing her fair share of bashing as well.. Barry is very cautiously and carefully trying to work with both conventional and alternative medicines to discover the best treatment for HER.. your comments are not meant to "save her life" as "thenewme" suggested above they are said only to belittle her! That needs to stop! She asked a ligitimate question and if you don't have an an answer or if the direction of the thread isn't exactly the way YOU see the world that's fine you don't need to degrade someone else for suggesting different solutions - you don't have to take Essaic Tea..
She didn't ask for your opinion about her cancer and she didn't asked for your opinion about her treatments.. She asked what you think about the Essaic Story - once you have stated that - really is there anything else you need to say? Digger if this is "out there" for you - well quite frankly you don't need to read it or comment on it just push the "hide" button and be done with it. But certainly don't shoot down people or their ideas because you can't find merit in them or you wouldn't interpret the scientific research the same way...
Barry, I'm so sorry that your thread has been attacked this way, you have every right to ask question as you make your way through this maze of cancer to find the best solution for your selection of the best treatment for you... Take care, Deirdre
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Barb...this is not a thread on HRT.
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Barry,
My daughter was dx with cancer in 1994. At some point we met someone who knew the daughter of Rene Caisse's nurse. She was still making the original essiac with hand picked ingredients. It came in brown beer bottles wrapped in newspaper to keep the light out. It had to be prepared exactly as directed. Heated to a certain temp, in a specific type and size of pan etc. Cassie, (my daughter's name was an anagram of essiac) hated the taste but took it as directed.
Unfortunately, it did not have any positive effect on her tumours. However, she would get her platelets tested 2ce a week and would always surprise her onc with the results. Her counts would be nil and there would not be the usual symptoms of bleeding and bruising. This was one of the effects that Rene described in her work, especially with lung cancer patients.
When it was clear that the battle was lost, Cassie asked not to take it anymore as she really couldn't stomach anything by that point. Within 2 weeks she started to show bruising for no apparent reason. Testing would show that her platelets were low, (in the 30's-Canadian measurements)but not nearly as low as they had been when she was symptom free. I do believe that the essiac was responsible for that.
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Thanks for your comments. Prettyinpink, sorry to hear about your daughter. Tough losing a child.
About 14 years ago, we purchased loose essac tea from Canada. We made it for a woman who was dying of cancer. It was a lot of work to make it just right, sterlize the bottles, and so on. The woman at that point could hardly swallow. Sadly she wasn't able to drink it. She died a few days later. We didn't know what to do with the tea so we tossed it. My husband asked me to consider taking it. I remember it tasting bitter. I don't know how much out there is the real McCoy or if it really works. Right now I'm leaning more to taking something that has a good amount of active resveratrol in it.
Thanks Deirdre, you have always been an encouragment and support to me. Your presence on BCO has brought balance, wisdom and encouragement to women on the BCO board.
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Barry, YOU brought up the hrt not me. I just commented on your doctors lack of info. That was support.
Diedre, you "imagine" I'm bashing Barry!?! Please, don't make those kind of comments in a thread that is flowing quite nicely. No one has bashed Barry, if you read all the posts, you'd see that rather than "imagine" that. You'll also notice I didn't go to the fungal thread as it doesn't interest me. This thread did.
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Oh yes you are correct Barbie I do apologize it was Digger that made it appear that you and she were collectively bashing Barry - you were in fact just condescending to Barry..
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Deirdre.....sigh....I was NOT condescending to Barry. Please don't look for trouble where non exists. Please, leave me and my posts alone. IF you can read, please read over what I have posted on this thread. I live about 20 minutes from Bracebridge and found the story quite gripping.
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This is exactly the problem Barbie, you make a statement "if I can read" and you don't find that problematic???
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Oh, Diedre, I AM being condescending to YOU!!! I find your post is trying to rustle up trouble on a thread that I originally found VERY interesting until you intruded on it with some ulterior motive!
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<shaking head in disbelief>
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Oh Barbie, let's just block each other !
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I had to block you about a year ago. I'm happy to do it again! Go find trouble somewhere else.
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barbe...Hmmm...I scanned back over this thread and couldn't find where I mentioned HRT. I have brought it up on other threads.
Peace
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