I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited January 2011

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/opinion/11brooks.html

    Dotti, I reposted your link so you could get to the article directly.  The following was copied from that link.

    "These accusations - that political actors contributed to the murder of 6 people, including a 9-year-old girl - are extremely grave. They were made despite the fact that there was, and is, no evidence that Loughner was part of these movements or a consumer of their literature. They were made despite the fact that the link between political rhetoric and actual violence is extremely murky. They were vicious charges made by people who claimed to be criticizing viciousness.

    Yet such is the state of things. We have a news media that is psychologically ill informed but politically inflamed, so it naturally leans toward political explanations. We have a news media with a strong distaste for Sarah Palin and the Tea Party movement, and this seemed like a golden opportunity to tarnish them. We have a segmented news media, so there is nobody in most newsrooms to stand apart from the prevailing assumptions. We have a news media market in which the rewards go to anybody who can stroke the audience's pleasure buttons.

    I have no love for Sarah Palin, and I like to think I'm committed to civil discourse. But the political opportunism occasioned by this tragedy has ranged from the completely irrelevant to the shamelessly irresponsible."

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  • Alpal
    Alpal Member Posts: 1,785
    edited January 2011

    I also like David Brooks. He might eat brussel sprouts, but surely not turnips!

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  • konakat
    konakat Member Posts: 6,085
    edited January 2011

    Sharon is the goddess of veggies!  She brought me lunch, including veggies from her garden, for chemo all summer long!

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  • pip57
    pip57 Member Posts: 12,401
    edited January 2011

    Thanks for posting part of the article.  I cannot read it unless I create an account.

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  • konakat
    konakat Member Posts: 6,085
    edited January 2011

    I am in a snit thinking about those Westboro people coming to picket that little girl's funeral.  That is beyond horrible.  How could someone do that???  I just want to crawl back into bed and get up to a better world. 

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited January 2011

    Elizabeth .. I posted this at the top of the last page.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/11/arizona.funeral.westboro/index.html?hpt=T1

    Angel wings to be used at funeral of 9 year-old girl to create barrier to Westboro Church protesters.

    "They're planning an "angel action" -- with 8- by 10-foot "angel wings" worn by participants and used to shield mourners from pickets. The actions were created by Coloradan Romaine Patterson, who was shocked to find the Topeka church and its neon signs outside the 1999 funeral of Matthew Shepherd, a young gay man beaten and left on a fence to die in Laramie, Wyoming.

    "We want to surround them, in a nonviolent way, to say that our community is united," Gilmer said. "We're a peaceful haven."

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited January 2011

    Also, Obama is attending the memorial service on Wednesday, so security should be pretty tight.

    Bren

    PS .. Elizabeth .. I love your new avatar .. you look so pretty!

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  • worldwatcher
    worldwatcher Member Posts: 205
    edited January 2011
     

    "Nearly six in 10 Americans say the country's heated political rhetoric is not to blame for the Tucson shooting rampage that left six dead and critically wounded U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, according to a CBS News poll."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20028105-503544.html?tag=cbsnewsMainColumnArea

    Related site:

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bringing-Sarah-Palin-to-justice-for-instigating-hate-and-murder/179050885461729?v=wall

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited January 2011

    WW ... why did you post that FB link about Palin?  It had nothing to do the the CBS news link you posted.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited January 2011

    It's refreshing to know that atleast 6 out of 10 people aren't looney.

    That FB page needs to be shut down. It's horrible and disturbing. Hopefully someone who knows the person who created the page, will seriously consider whether or not the person needs a psych eval.

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  • worldwatcher
    worldwatcher Member Posts: 205
    edited January 2011

    The CBS link shows six out of ten Americans think the rhetoric is not to blame....yet the rhetoric against Palin continues unabated. 

    For example:, "Charge Sarah Palin and Jesse Kelly with manslaughter by inciting violence re: Giffords"

    Some here are citing articles by Krugman.  I think that exposing a FB site with the title "Bringing Sarah Palin to justice for instigating hate and murder" is as germane, and the  CBS poll is a counterpoint to it.

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited January 2011

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/there-was-a-shooting-in-arizona-sarah-palin-is-not-the-story/

    Sara Palin is not the story in Saturday's shooting.  Maybe it's time to move past Palin in this discussion.

    "Let's be honest about it. The only reason that Palin may pay a political price because of the shooting in Arizona is because the media will have decided that she is the focus of the story, not because of anything she did. There's no evidence that Jared Lee Loughner was any kind of a Palin follower or fan; in fact, his politics over the past several years seem to have been a bizarre mixture of far left, far right, and conspiracy theories. There's also anecdotal evidence that he is, at least in some sense, mentally disturbed.Finally, it's becoming clear that this individual had some kind of obsession with Giffords long before anyone outside of Alaska ever heard the name Sarah Palin.  How, exactly, Sarah Palin is responsible for the actions of such a person is beyond me, and I'm a guy who has very low regard for Palin to begin with."

    Bren

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited January 2011

    No offense Bren, but why should anyone posting here have to explain the reason for their post? This is an open forum. WW's post was well within the "rules".

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited January 2011

    I was curious .. no other reason than that.

    Bren

    Edited:  Please .. feel free to continue the discussion on Palin.  I'll politely bow out of any further comments regarding her.

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  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited January 2011

    Bren, thanks for the copy of part of Brooks' piece. I sometimes agree with him and this is one of those times. Worldwatcher may post whatever she wishes but the relevance of the the Palin link coming right after the CBS link failed to make a connection for me. Now that she explained she offred it as a counterpoint, it makes a little more sense to me but my synapses aren't getting the relavancy.

    Sometimes reading this thread, it seems some are suffering from PDS (Palin Derangement Syndrome). She won't get elected for anything so give it a rest! Let's allow that an insane person for his own insane reasons shot and killed people in AZ.

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  • worldwatcher
    worldwatcher Member Posts: 205
    edited January 2011

    Bren, I agree with your thought, "Sara Palin is not the story in Saturday's shooting.  Maybe it's time to move past Palin in this discussion"

    I just wish some media outlets would agree with it..

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited January 2011

    Barbara, Tupelo and WW .. I agree as well.  Time for the media to drop this hot potato!

    On a good note, I read that Giffords was off the ventilator .. fabulous news for her recovery.  I hope she continues to get stronger everyday, as do the other victims.

    Bren

    Edited: typo

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  • Alpal
    Alpal Member Posts: 1,785
    edited January 2011

    I've watched MSN, CNN, and all 3 major networks today and everyone I've seen has said that Palin had nothing to do with this. However, they've all pretty much said that the rhetoric needs to be turned down. And, hopefully, that's what will happen. I don't watch Fox but on Morning Joe (is he really a Repub.?) it was reported that the head of Fox has told his people to tone it down. Is that correct? Please don't assume I have an ulterior motive for asking - I just want to know and I think those of you who watch Fox will know.

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited January 2011

    Alpal .. I'm going to tune into CNN and see what's going on.  I also watch Matthews on MSNBC and I hope he's stopped talking about Palin too.

    Bren

    Edited: I'm disappointed in MSNBC .. just tuned in and Matthews is still going on with all the rhetoric and ragging on Palin, even showing that stupid ad again.  Going to switch to CNN.

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  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited January 2011

    Alpal, Fox wants who to tone down what? The following are by Bob Beckel - a dem on Fox, then Krauthammer, O'Reilly and Goldberg.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/01/11/krauthammer_shooter_was_psychotic_with_severe_thought_disorder.html

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/01/11/bill_oreilly_on_gross_exploitation_of_murder_in_arizona.html

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/01/11/democratic_strategist_beckel_stop_politicizing_giffords_shooting.html

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/01/10/bernie_goldberg_to_sheriff_dupnik_keep_your_mouth_shut.html

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  • Alpal
    Alpal Member Posts: 1,785
    edited January 2011

    BarbaraA - I got the impression they were talking about the rhetoric prior to the shootings. Specifically, Beck and O'Reilly were mentioned.  

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  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited January 2011

    Alpal, my DH likes O'Reilly so I listen to him (as I do other stuff). I have to say I find him to be very fair but he will nail people who dodge his questions. And that seems a little personal-attackish to me and I find it off-putting. Beck, on the other hand, has some good ideas and some very bad ideas. I can't listen to him. I do buy some of his books. The Common Sense book was excellent. Broke, not so much.

    I enjoy the Fox Report at 6 and the all star panel at 6:35. This is made up of folks like Juan Williams, Bob Beckel, Charles Krauthammer, AB Stoddard, Bill Crystol, Fred Barnes, Mara Liasson, etc. I enjoy the different views and a lot of the time they all see it the same, which is the case with the AZ shooting. They all agree the media is in a frenzy and the Goldberg link in my prior post says it like only he could, having been a journalist for 40+ years.

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited January 2011

    Barbara .. thanks for the links .. I watched a couple of them.

    Bren

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  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited January 2011

    No prob Bren. As I said, I take my Fox in limited doses, as I do the rest of my news/opinion viewing. Mostly I read...a lot. I read probably 16 hours a week, work and life permitting.

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  • Alpal
    Alpal Member Posts: 1,785
    edited January 2011

    Thanks Barb - like you, I take my MSNBC in very small doses, but do like Morning Joe on occasion. I just wanted to know if the head of Fox (I don't even know his name) really had told Beck and O'Reilly to chill. The head of MSNBC obviously needs to tell Matthews to chill.

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  • Medigal
    Medigal Member Posts: 1,412
    edited January 2011

    One of my favorites is the Fox Report especially with Dr. Krauthammer.  I find him to be laid back but he gets his opinions across in the way I like to hear.  I have a lot of respect for him.  Some of these people just babble whatever they think the public wants to hear.  I'm watching Wolfe Blitzer now and even if he isn't a favorite with some on here, I find him to act very professionally.  They are of course discussing the killer.  I wonder how long this will go on?  I just don't like the idea that he is getting all this national publicity for such an evil act.  I think it feeds the evil within him.

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  • worldwatcher
    worldwatcher Member Posts: 205
    edited January 2011

    Fox News' Roger Ailes: "Tone it Down"

    In the wake of the tragic shooting in Tuscon, Ariz. that left six dead and 14 injured, including Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, Fox News President Roger Ailes is saying that his network and others in politics and the media need to "tone it down."

    -SNIP-

    "I told all of our guys, shut up, tone it down, make your argument intellectually," the Fox News president said. "You don't have to do it with bombast. I hope the other side does that."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20028077-503544.html

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  • worldwatcher
    worldwatcher Member Posts: 205
    edited January 2011

    Medigal

    Your comment: "I wonder how long this will go on?  I just don't like the idea that he is getting all this national publicity for such an evil act." 

    At the risk of sounding cynical...(who, me?) just think, there is a presidential election coming up. Just think of all the democratic campaign ads that can use this tragedy. 

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  • revkat
    revkat Member Posts: 763
    edited January 2011

    I am so confused. I thought Gabby Griffords was the one who had been attacked, not Sarah Palin. But a lot of the posts today seem to indicate that Palin is the victim. What kind of head injury did she have?

    This is all very confusing. First the right said there wasn't any violent rhetoric, then that it didn't matter, now that both sides need to tone it down? Which is it?

    And Roger Ailes is telling his entertainers to be intellectual? Doesn't he know Fox viewers think intellectuals are elitist commie hippies who drink lattes, eat quiche and wear Birkenstocks? (I think most elitist commie hippies have switched to Tom's, but don't tell).

    What is the world coming to? 

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  • kadeeb
    kadeeb Member Posts: 305
    edited January 2011

    Rosemary - Beautiful poem.

    Pretty - I don't want to be telling on anyone, but if you think the attitude here about brussel sprouts is bad, you should have seen what they posted about pigs feet and hog's head. Smile

    Worldwatcher - I'm sure you already know and were just kidding but some may not, Brussel sprouts are from the cabbage family but are not actually "baby cabbages". They grow on a stalk and the "baby cabbages" grow around the stalk. Real strange looking but if you plant them early enough,(Early march) you can grow them even in Alabama.They really prefer cooler climates.

    Medigal - Loved the "Poor Shot" quote. I wonder if anyone has accused him of incitement to violence.

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