Newly diagnosed DCIS
I was diagnosed just over a week ago and have many questions.
A recent mammo found calcifications which lead to a stereotactic guided core needle biopsy. The pathology report says:
Tumor type: Ductal Carcinoma In Situ
DCIS grade: intermediate
Nuclear grade: 1-2 (with focal grade 3)
Necrosis: present
Calcifications: dense and fine calcifications present
Pattern: cribriform
quantitation: at least 1.0 cm DCIS present
Estrogen receptors: positive, 3+, >90% of cells
Progesterone receptors: positive 2+, 80% of cells
Myosin heavy chain: positive
p63: positive
I believe I understand all of this with a few exceptions. "Nuclear grade: 1-2 (with focal grade 3)" -- does this mean that most of the cells were nuclear grade 1 or 2, but a small amount was grade 3? And what is the significance of necrosis?
The doc says that the size of the affected area is 20 mm, but the pathology report says "at least 1.0 cm." I believe the reason for the discrepancy is that I also had an MRI, and I think the doc is using the MRI data rather than the pathology data. Does that make sense?
She has staged me at Stage 0 Tis, apparently because there is no invasion and no mass.
Those are my first questions (probably easy ones) and I'll follow up with the more in-depth ones tomorrow. Thanks.
Comments
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cycle-path, I'm sorry that you've had to join us, but I'm glad that you found us!
It sounds as though you have a really good handle on your diagnosis.
To your questions, yes, from the description it appears that your DCIS is mostly grade 1 and 2 but there is some grade 3. It's not uncommon to have more than one grade of DCIS.
Necrosis represents an area of dead cells. "When cancer cells grow quickly, some cells don't get enough nourishment. These starved cells can die off, leaving areas of necrosis." So generally if necrosis is present, the cancer is considered to be more aggressive. Grade 3 DCIS often has a lot of necrosis; grade 2 sometimes has a small amount. http://www.breastcancer.org/symptoms/types/dcis/diagnosis.jsp
As for the size of your area of DCIS, it does seem that your doctor is taking into account what was seen on the MRI. MRIs do tend to be more accurate than mammograms at identifying the full area of DCIS. However MRIs can be wrong so it's possible that your area of DCIS could be just the 1cm that was seen on your mammo, or it could be the 2cm that was seen on your MRI. Until it's all removed, there is no way to know for sure.
And finally, yes, Stage 0 Tis is the definition of pure DCIS, without the presence of any invasion. Here again, final staging can't be done until all your affected breast tissue is analysed under a microscope. In about 80% of cases, the preliminary staging is confirmed but in about 20% of cases, some invasive cancer is found in the final pathology and the staging is therefore changed. Hopefully that won't be the case for you.
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Thanks very much, Beesie!
The breast care practice I go to is owned by two female docs, a radiologist and a breast surgeon. I'm pleased with them and have no real issues, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to ask questions about what they recommend.
I saw the surgeon last week and she recommends a lumpectomy with partial breast irradiation (PBI). She indicates that Tamoxifen will probably be recommended later.
At this point I am scheduled for the lumpectomy on Jan 5. She says a temporary catheter for the PBI will be inserted during surgery but it will be replaced by a catheter for the actual PBI once the pathology is complete. Is this because there is some possible post-lumpectomy pathological outcome that will indicate that radiation isn't strongly indicated for me? Such as if the margins of the lumpectomy are particularly good? Or is it because the pathology results will dictate which catheter is to be used? Or for some other reason?
Partly what I'm asking is whether there are certain situations in which radiation is not necessarily recommended for a DCIS like mine, and what about my diagnosis causes radiation to be recommended?
I calculated my VNPI at 7 if there are >1 cm margins on the lumpectomy and if the affected area does in fact turn out to be >1.5 cm. I'm in my late 50s, which means that if I were just a bit older my VNPI would go down by one point right there.
http://poptop.hypermart.net/wksht1.html
I am really not keen on having radiation.
Thanks again for your help.
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I don't know why you would get a temporary catheter during surgery and the actual one for radiation later. I didn't have radiation (I had a mastectomy because I had too much DCIS in a small breast) so I don't know the process. Maybe that's what's always done. I'm sure that someone else can answer this.
Radiation is optional. However it's almost always recommended after a lumpectomy. So that's where you have to make your decision, based on your risk level and your tolerance of risk. Certainly if you have very good margins your recurrence risk will be lower; whether it will be low enough for you to be willing to forego radiation is something that only you can decide. But until you have the surgery and you know more about your tumor - whether it is all DCIS, what the actual size of the tumor is, whether there is any more grade 3 or if there is the presence of comedonecrosis, whether there is a single tumor or if there are several areas of DCIS separated by a few millimeters, etc. - it really isn't possible to guess what your recurrence risk will be.
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I should clarify one thing about the temporary catheter. The surgeon said that the catheter to be used for the PBI is expensive, but the temporary one is inexpensive. That indicates to me that there's some question in the doc's mind as to whether PBI will actually be done -- that they put in a temporary one as a sort of placeholder because they're not 100% sure they will need the expensive "real" one.
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Cycle-path,
You might want to consider getting a 2nd pathology opinion after your lumpectomy, before you begin treatments . Pathologists disagree up to 25 percent of the time. Since you can have radiation only once, it is important that your treatment choices are based on good solid pathology. You will also want to know what your recurrence rate is with and without radiation.
I consulted with Dr. Michael Lagios, a world renowned DCIS expert and pathologist, who has a consulting service that anyone can use. When they said I has positive margins after my lumpectomy, he disagreed with my local pathologists and estimated my recurrence risk at only 4 percent. With such a low rate of recurrence, it made sense to me to omit radiation, as the 50 percent risk recurrence reduction did not seem worth it to me.
Since DCIS is non-invasive you don't need to rush into anything. Take your time and make sure you are comfortable with whatever treatment options you choose.
Please feel free to send me a PM or check my website if you have questions or think any part of my story would help you:
https://sites.google.com/site/dciswithoutrads/home
Hugs,
Sandie -
Sandie, thank you. I had not thought about how pathologists would not necessarily agree about a specimen, but of course it makes sense. I looked at your web page and that of Dr. Lagios.
I also think you make an excellent point (which Beesie also touched on) about further reducing an already low risk. If one's risk of recurrence is pretty low, cutting that in half is not impressive. Cutting a 50% recurrence chance in half gives you 25%, and that's good, but if your risk is only 5%, half of that is 2.5%. Not much benefit. So I need to decide if it's worth the risk and cost of radiation to me.
I'm not sure about the mechanics of a second path opinion after the lumpectomy, though. I'll have a temporary catheter inserted and can't even bathe until it is taken out. Basically I'm told that the radiation has to start within a few days -- as soon as the path is received. I suppose I could request that Dr. Lagios do my pathology rather than the local pathologist, but even that is dicey time-wise. (Surgery on Wednesday with catheter insertion, pathology to be complete on Friday when the radiation catheter is to be inserted, and radiation to be done the following M - F.)
Any thoughts on that?
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