Can I get lymphedema 2 1/2 years after treatment

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kdholt
kdholt Member Posts: 229
edited June 2014 in Lymphedema

Hi all! I am wondering if any of you have experienced this. I tweeked my arm pretty good about a month ago-side I had surgery and rads on. It got puffy and sore and I assumed I pulled a muscle. Well the soreness is gone but my wrist and hand are still very puffy-I can't wear my watch on that side anymore. I am a little freaked out. I saw my dr. yesterday. He is hoping it is still just healing from the injury and has prescribed pt for 10 days. If the swelling is still there he wants me to go back to my onc. That's why I'm freaked out. If it is lymphedema so late after surgery does that mean cancer is back? If anyone has had a similar experience I would love to hear from you. Thanks!

Comments

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited November 2010

    Lymphedema can happen even 10 or 20 years out. Don't panic yet but you are doing the correct thing by questioning this. Also remember that not everyone gets severe cases. Many times, if caught early it can be managed well.

    This site has lots of info regarding lymphedema: http://www.stepup-speakout.org/

  • kdholt
    kdholt Member Posts: 229
    edited November 2010

    What do you mean by don't panic yet? Are you saying that if I've developed LE now it means my cancer may be back? That is my biggest worry.

  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited November 2010
    LE does not = cancer. LE is caused by surgery that disrupts the lymphatic system. A mastectomy and lumpectomy disturb the lymphatic system.
  • calamtykel
    calamtykel Member Posts: 1,187
    edited November 2010

    lymphedema has nothing to do with cancer being back - it happens when the lymph fluid in your arm/shoulder makes a new "path" since nodes have been removed and disrupted, and the new path goes into the arm.

    When you injure your arm or hand,  the body sends lymph fluid to it --white blood cells and such.  That's why an arm injury can trigger lymphedema.  I have a friend who just got lymphedema from an infected spider bite on her mastectomy arm four years later. 

    It does NOT mean your cancer is back - it has nothing to do with it -- relax and just try to hang in there!  I know it's hard not to panic at every new thing, for sure ......but Lymphedema is treatable!  

  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited November 2010

    kdholt,

      Lymphedema is very rarely associated with a return of cancer: much more commonly, our lymphatic system is impaired, even with just a few nodes out, and when there's an "insult"--like tweaking your arm, it gets overwhelmed and you swell. 

      Any of us who has had nodes removed is at risk for the rest of our life--for lymphedema.

      Before you go to PT, where the repetative exercises may cause worsening of lymphedema, I'd suggest you see a PT who is trained to evaluate and treat lymphedema.

    http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Finding_a_Qualified_Lymphedema_Therapist.htm

    You'll need a referral from your doctor for the evaluation to be covered by insurance. 

    There was a great "patient perspective" in a Lymphology Journal about a woman who smacked her hand on a car mirror in a parking lot and developed lymphedema over 10 years out from her surgery.

    You can have reactive swelling to the injury, but persistent swelling suggests the possibility of lymphedema, and the sooner you check it out, the sooner you'll have an answer and early treatment gets better results.

    Lymphedema is very, very rarely tied to recurrence.

    Kira

  • Suzybelle
    Suzybelle Member Posts: 920
    edited November 2010

    So sorry to hear you're having some swelling, but hopefully it will resolve itself...and if it is lymphedema, it's not the end of the world.  I have it and I still manage to have a good time most days.  Tongue out

    And the other ladies are spot on - lymphedema doesn't mean your cancer is back - it just means your lymphatic system isn't operating efficiently.

    Hang in there and let us know how you are!
    Suzy

  • kdholt
    kdholt Member Posts: 229
    edited November 2010

    Thanks ladies, I don't know why I panic so easily. I appreciate the feed back. If it is LE it is mild as i can still wear my wedding rings,but i don't want it to progress. What can i do to prevent that and is it ever reversible?

  • Suzybelle
    Suzybelle Member Posts: 920
    edited November 2010

    Well, if the swelling doesn't go down, I would recommend asking your doctor to get you in with a qualified lymphedema therapist.  She can show you techniques for you to self-manage lymphedema, and you can successfully keep it from progressing.  And many times, most of the swelling is reversible, but you have to work at it daily.  This is the yukky part of LE - if I don't treat it daily, I swell up. 

    Good luck to you!

    S.

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited November 2010

    Here is a list of what you can do to reduce your risk:

    http://www.stepup-speakout.org/riskreduction_for_lymphedema.htm 

  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited November 2010

    kdholt,

      Let me second Suzy--the best thing to do is to get evaluated by a qualified lymphedema therapist who decide if this is lymphedema--but the swelling definitely sounds like it could be--and they will teach you the things you need to know to control it: special massage, risk reductions, garments if needed, and special exercises.

    Yes, some people swell up due to an issue, and it resolves with treatment, but they're always considered to have Stage 0 lymphedema--latent lymphedema.

    Early treatment is the best way to get it to resolve.

    Have a great holiday, and here's a guide to what to do while waiting for a lymphedema therapist evaluation: on the web page, there are links:

    http://www.stepup-speakout.org/How_You_Can_Cope_with_Lymphedema.htm#while%20waiting

    What to do While Waiting for Your First Appointment with a Qualified Lymphedema Therapist


    DO NOT try and treat this yourself!!! Proper professional treatment is essential to getting control of lymphedema and preventing its progression. Treatment can be expensive and inconvenient, but this condition is life long, potentially disfiguring, disabling and possibly life-threatening (if you get an infection known as cellulitis) so professional evaluation and treatment as soon as possible is essential.

    1) Get evaluated promptly by your doctor to rule out other causes for the swelling in your hand/arm, and get a referral to see a well-trained lymphedema therapist;
    2) Drink plenty of fluids -- staying well hydrated helps dilute lymph fluid and keep it moving freely;

    3) Elevate the swollen arm or hand as much as possible during the day and on pillows at night; support the arm well so that it doesn't tire;
    4) Several times a day pause and do some deep breathing -- this helps stimulate the largest lymph vessels in your body;

    5) Raise hands over head as high as is comfortable for you, three times a day, and pump fists 20 times;
    6) Call for medical help immediately if you have severe pain, redness, fever or feel ill;

    7) You can try mild compression gloves by either Sammons Preston or Isotoner® Fingerless Therapeutic Gloves if your hands and/or fingers are swollen until your appointment with your lymphedema therapist. Be sure to bring them along to your appointment;
    8) Do NOT use ACE wraps or any other wraps without the advice of your lymphedema therapist after your evaluation and your treatment plan is scheduled.

    Kira

  • inspiewriter
    inspiewriter Member Posts: 876
    edited November 2010

    2 1/2 years after surgery is exactly when my LE symptoms began.

  • Member_of_the_Club
    Member_of_the_Club Member Posts: 3,646
    edited November 2010

    I developed LE 4 1/2 years after surgery.  You should go see a certified LE therapist so you can get a handle on this.

  • kdholt
    kdholt Member Posts: 229
    edited November 2010

    Happy Thanksgiving ladies! Hope all of you have a blessed holiday with your loved ones. Thanks for all the information about LE. I am glad to know LE doesn't mean the cancer is back, but Kira I have to ask what are some other possible causes for arm and hand swellling if not cancer- your guideline number 1- see that's the kind of info I get freaked out by. Sorry, I'm just a little bit of a worry wort.

  • Binney4
    Binney4 Member Posts: 8,609
    edited November 2010

    KD, another cause of sudden swelling that a doctor would check out with a doppler if he was worried about it is a blood clot. That's an emergency, though, and you'd be in trouble by now if that were the cause. Part of diagnosing LE is our medical history, and unfortunately by that criteria you "qualify" for LE.Tongue out The problem is that our doctors don't always know enough about LE to realize prompt treatment can save us a whole lot of trouble (shorter therapy time, easier managing long-term), and they take a wait-and-see attitude when they should at least get an evaluation from a well-trained LE therapist.

    So, have a very happy Thanksgiving weekendKiss -- and, come Monday, talk to your doctors (any one on your team will do) about a referral for LE evaluation.

    And, KD, we ALL panic easily after bc. Undecided I slammed my finger in the back door one day, and the next morning woke up with the fingertip feeling very tender. For several panicked seconds, until I remembered the door incident, I actually wondered if you could get cancer of the fingernail.Embarassed A sense of humor is our only defense!

    Keep us posted!
    Binney

  • kdholt
    kdholt Member Posts: 229
    edited November 2010

    Thanks Binney! I am going for PT next week and I believe the person I am seeing had dealt with LE before. Someone on here said many times most of theswelling can be reversed. Does that take time ? How soon should I be able to notice results?

    Debbie

  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited November 2010

    Debbie--everyone is different.

    When I read your original post, I noticed that the swelling has been hanging around for a month, so I definitely would get it checked out, and let us know how you're treated, as a PT with some knowledge of LE is not the same as a qualified LE therapist (they get 135 hours of training and supervision).

    Hope you see swift results.

    Kira

  • manatee64
    manatee64 Member Posts: 20
    edited December 2010

    I developed LE 8 years after mastectomy and TRAM reconstruction

    I was stunned though I'd heard that it can develop many years after.

    Each time I go back for treatment when it gets out of control, I learn something new.  What I'm learning now is that there is a cumulative effect from scar tissue and each time we have more surgery, it adds to the possibility of LE developing.   So no matter how much my shoulders hurt from shoulder impingements, no surgery!

    Donna, recently diagnosed with bc on other side and in treatment to head off LE on that side

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2013

    So what is the percentage of mastectomy and lumpectomy victims get LE?   Are there any stats on this?  Does more nodes removed equal greater chance of LE?  Will I ever be comfortable with myself again?  This sucks!

  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited December 2010

    Donna: So sorry to hear about the new diagnosis--glad you're taking a pro-active approach. Best wishes for an uneventful treatment and recovery--let us know how you are, please?

    There was one study of ALND patients--followed for over 20 years, and there was a burst of LE developing in the first 5 years, and then 1%/year, so at the 20 year mark, over half the women had LE.

    Pasofino: there is no standard definition of LE, that's why you'll see ranges of 6-50%, there really is no "gold standard" agreed upon diagnostic criteria. Even the risk factors--like more nodes vary between studies--and lately, there is increasing evidence that some people have less robust lymphatic systems and also a tendency toward inflammation that puts them at higher risk.

    Personally, as a world class worrier, I'd say--know the risk reduction guidelines, and please don't let the risk of LE weigh heavily on you. You can only do what you can do. Do consider a compression sleeve with flying--but even that is debatable for women at risk. Here are the NLN guideline papers:

    http://www.lymphnet.org/lymphedemaFAQs/positionPapers.htm

    It does suck, and I hope you never have to deal with it.

    Kira

  • dreaming
    dreaming Member Posts: 473
    edited August 2013

    If they removed several lymph nodes, yes you have to be very protective of that side arm, not for lymphedema, but infections, I always carry antibiotic cream , if I cut,or burn, use mosquito repellent not to have a bite.

    Also it is a good idea to keep the exercises for the arm , if you had a mastectomy, to prevent freezing of the arm[s].

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