How to boost white blood cell and NK cell count?

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Before I started radiation (didn't have chemo), my white blood cell count was fairly low.  I was told I'm probably naturally pretty low.  However after starting tamoxifen, my white blood cell count has dropped even lower.  Natural Killer cells are also fairly low.  I have been doing the following since being diagnosed:

Eat organic (much raw) fruit and veggies, beans, whole grains, nuts, organic yogurt and little fish, milk, eggs - all hormone free.  Juice veggies and fruit each morning.  Eat shiitake mushrooms (just recently discovered they need to be cooked).  Eat nothing white (flour, sugar, pasta, rice, potato)

Drink organic green tea and water.

Exercise each day - 20 minutes Qi gong, 30 minutes cardio, and about 15 minutes weights.  More on weekends

Took Reishi supplements then switched to Astragalus root.

Take Anti-oxidant supplement, vitamin C as well as others.

Since taking tamoxifen, my sleep has been poor.  For 3 months, normal sleep was about 3 to 4 hours.  If very lucky, 5.  Some nights no sleep.  I suspect my lack of sleep is the problem.  Though I think my side effects from T are finally diminishing and sleep is improving.

Anyone have any luck boosting their white blood cell and NK cell count?

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Comments

  • Husband11
    Husband11 Member Posts: 2,264
    edited November 2010

    Experimentally, maitake D extract has increased levels of NK cell activity.

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited November 2010

    I heard an interesting theory on the weekend about the immune system.  It goes like this:  People who have 1 or 2 colds per year actually have a very healthy immune system, because the B cells and T cells are activated (engaged) in fighting off foreign viruses.   Those of us who haven't had a cold in years (for me, it's about 7 years) have difficulty with low white cell counts (because our NK cells are out of condition, so to speak!).  During chemo, I was getting 12 neupogen shots between tx  to keep up my white counts.

    Sorry that doesn't answer your question.  It would be great if maitake D extract works in humans -- heck of an improvement over neupogen or neulasta, I should think!

  • Husband11
    Husband11 Member Posts: 2,264
    edited November 2010

    I'm not sure its been shown to increase white blood cell count.  But they have demonstrated that it increases various markers of the immune system.  Memorial Sloan Kettering did work with breast cancer patients to determine experimental dosages for use in further trials.  At this point they say the effect is "of unknown clinical significance".  Hopefully it is of therapeutic value.  Even better if its of great therapeutic value.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2010

    Thanks so much for your input!  I'll ask my naturopath about maitake D extract.  I'm sure taking it would be safe and if it helps..terrific!   I did read in another forum about the importance of digestive enzymes for the immune system.  Will have to consult naturopath about that too.  I'm thinking lots more sprouts will help.  Will see what my onc. says too - though I don't want any chemicals/medications.

  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited November 2010

    Just wanted to add that you might want to try Melatonin for the sleep issue.  It also has some benefit for bc prevention. 

    I just pulled up this link for you and see that it also mentions low platelets:

    http://breastcancer.about.com/od/generalsideeffects/p/melatonin.htm

    Deanna

  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited August 2013

    The cold theroy doesn't work as I always got colds and had bronchitis at least 4 times.  I assumed it was because I had a weak immune system and also tended to have low normal WBC counts.

  • apple
    apple Member Posts: 7,799
    edited November 2010

    Molasses has many minerals, including iron to boost red blood counts... don't know if that helps.

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited November 2010

    apple, that does help, but honestly I don't know how to add it into my daily diet. If you have any ideas I would love them. I have been on Synthroid for years, and with now getting the cancer am beginning to fit the pieces of the puzzle together.

  • MsBliss
    MsBliss Member Posts: 536
    edited November 2010

    Molasses and probiotics.  Molasses for the minerals and probiotics because the GI tract is a huge part of the immune system.

  • CrunchyPoodleMama
    CrunchyPoodleMama Member Posts: 1,220
    edited August 2013

    Doesn't IP-6 boost NK cell activity?

    As for sleep, I second Deanna's melatonin suggestion. Also, are you sleeping in 100% complete darkness (no bits of light coming from a clock radio or streaming in through the blinds)?

    apple, I love molasses, so that is good to know. I was thinking of making an organic hot cocoa out of raw organic cacao, grass-fed milk, and stevia or some other natural sweetener... maybe molasses (I know that will make for an unusual flavored hot cocoa, but I love the taste of molasses so it might work).

    When I was a kid, I used to eat teaspoons of blackstrap molasses by itself... I'd just stick a spoon in then savor it for several minutes. Maybe I should've kept up that habit!

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited November 2010

    Julia, The idea of coco and molasses I will try.Other than ginger bread cookies I have no idea how to use the stuff. Any other ideas on how to add it to my diet I would appreciate.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2010

    Apple, Thanks for the suggestion of molasses. Sounds like a great idea! 

    I did a quick search for molasses recipes and found these:

    http://www.ifood.tv/recipe/ginger_molasses_pancakes

    http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/molasses-bran-muffins/Detail.aspx

    http://www.ifood.tv/recipe/molasses-sweet-potatoes

    I also found that you can just put it in tea, coffee, or water.  Worth a try!  I find that my taste buds adjust to almost anything.  Now that I'm eating healthier - sugary, processed foods seem really unappealing.

    I did try melatonin but it made me weepy.  I still take it periodically but not for more than a night or two at a time.  I will try making the bedroom darker though.  Oh no, full moon tonight!Surprised

    Thanks so much for all the suggestions!

  • CrunchyPoodleMama
    CrunchyPoodleMama Member Posts: 1,220
    edited November 2010

    After I posted that, I went and made some (hot cocoa)... I sweetened it with molasses and a few drops of stevia... SO GOOD! It's a cold night so it was the perfect thing to end my evening with. Raw cacao has magnesium so that's another good cancer-fighting nutrient. And this full-of-nutrients version tastes a million times better than the packet of Swiss Miss chemicals I used to drink!

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited November 2010

    Thanks for the suggestions. I will give them a try. As far as the melatonin, it makes me sad. I have to be careful of things that bring me down. I have had depression issues all my life. Not something I care to think about.

  • CrunchyPoodleMama
    CrunchyPoodleMama Member Posts: 1,220
    edited November 2010

    Kira, I've had depression issues too (a 7-year-long bout in my 20's, and several years in my 30's). I tried all the anti-depressants and one did work for me for a while, but ultimately two dietary things helped me: iodine and eating pasture-raised eggs. I know I was iodine-deficient and I also believe I was depleted of essential fatty acids. Exercise has also been a BIG part of my depression recovery, as well as getting sunshine exposure every day and not sitting in front of an LCD screen for too long. Ironically, I was massively depressed before my breast cancer diagnosis... but after my dx, I cleaned up my diet and lifestyle, and lo and behold, my depression cleared up! Totally wasn't expecting that at all. If anything, I should have been MORE depressed. But eating whole foods, pastured eggs, exercising, etc. really does help with depression (for me, FAR more than anti-depressants ever did).

    Green, it's worth looking into black-out curtains and/or shades if any moonlight is able to stream in. I had insomnia my entire life. (When I was three, I remember assuming it took everyone two hours to fall asleep every night -- it was such a shock to find out most people fall asleep easily.) I thought my bedroom was pretty dark, but one night I went around with black electrical tape and put little pieces of it over every tiny little light on the stereo, clock radio, etc.

    Amazingly, it made an IMMEDIATE difference. I slept so well and so deeply that first night, and have slept so much better ever since. BTW, sleeping in complete darkness also helps infertile women get their hormones back into balance. And did you know blind women have a significantly lower incidence of breast cancer?? It's crazy how that one factor can make such a difference in our health!

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2010

    CrunchyPoodleMama,

    That is very interesting about blind women.  A quick google search uncovered a couple studies confirming that  - apparently sleeping in complete darkness corresponds to having more melatonin.  I get a daily email newsletter from Dr. Mercola who also confirmed the importance of sleeping in complete darkness.  It is 1st on his list of things to do to improve sleeeping:

    "Optimizing Your Sleep Sanctuary

    1. Sleep in complete darkness, or as close to it as possible. Even the tiniest bit of light in the room can disrupt your internal clock and your pineal gland's production of melatonin and serotonin. Even the tiniest glow from your clock radio could be interfering with your sleep. This will help decrease your risk of cancer.  Close your bedroom door, and get rid of night-lights. Refrain from turning on any light at all during the night, even when getting up to go to the bathroom. Cover up your clock radio.

      Cover your windows-I recommend using blackout shades or drapes." 

    Dr. Mercola says exactly what you said.  There are no phantom energy drains in my house - all appliances are powered off or manual and without little lights.  I'm not "Green" for nothing.  But I will put dark sheets over my windows tonight. 

    Sleep is terribly important yet more difficult to control than diet and exercise.

    Thanks for the info!



     

  • asschercut
    asschercut Member Posts: 159
    edited November 2010

    It's funny, I'm the total opposite...I simply have to fall asleep gazing at the stars, and having a little moonlight glow in my bedroom. We all sleep like babies with the windows open almost all year round....and the breeze seems to lull us to sleep. I couldn't ever imagine sleeping in total darkness, without the fresh air rejuvenating my lungs throughout the night and keeping the air in my home crisp.....it's like a comforting blanket.

    I remember when I was a little girl visiting my nana in Greece....she lived on a top floor apartment in Athens, and in the summer months she had some beds out on the balcony overlooking the Acropolis - absolutely breathtaking. We would sleep out there...and she emphasized the importance of sleeping under the stars, when one could...or by an open window, as her family had done for centuries. I love it...it's part of my upbringing.

    We're all different...I guess.

    Victoria

  • CrunchyPoodleMama
    CrunchyPoodleMama Member Posts: 1,220
    edited November 2010

    Green, I'm not surprised Dr. Mercola so strongly recommends it too. (We power most things down too, but dh can't sleep without music; so the stereo plays all night... blech.)

    Victoria, that is definitely interesting... BUT, I believe (haven't looked into this for proof) that starlight puts out a different wavelength of light than artificial electronic lights. (In fact, they recommend that if you have to get up in the middle of the light, to use a certain color of light that mimics the more natural light spectrum -- red maybe? or maybe red is the color to avoid.) I would imagine that sleeping under startlight doesn't interfere with sleep or melatonin output the way artificial lights do. (And the fresh air is obviously a great idea for all of us!)

    Also, I mentioned the sleeping-in-complete-darkness thing for fertility earlier... what I didn't mention is that, interestingly, as ovulation approaches (or is supposed to), this theory (called "lunaception") recommends sleeping WITH some light for several nights.

    Apparently, this brighter-than-normal light prompts ovulation. Ideally, a woman would cycle with the moon cycle, and the light of the full moon is what helps prompt ovulation. (Obviously, most women's bodies override this light effect, but for many women, they can't conceive or even ovulate unless they return to this light-driven cycle.) So, it makes sense to me that your nana was a big believer in sleeping under natural skylight, and how it's unhealthy for people to sleep with blaring nightlights etc. incessantly every night.

    The more I learn about the human body, the more amazed I am at how God designed it to work so perfectly with nature. It's a shame the modern age had to remove us so far from our natural cycles and nutritional/physical needs.

  • asschercut
    asschercut Member Posts: 159
    edited November 2010

    Stars emit a range of wavelengths and colours.....they're like glistening diamonds.

    I don't know of anyone that sleeps with blaring lights on. Just that it's restful to sleep with a little breeze and starlight/moonlight throughout the night. For me personally, closed windows and complete darkness feels stuffy, and unhealthy. Also you don't need an alarm clock because you will wake up with the birds....then you can close the drapery, if you wish to sleep in.

    I walk 5k in the evenings along the beach, as the sun is going down and the moon is coming up. I'm pretty tired by the end of the day. Then as the stars come out to add some bling to the sky....I'm already yawning.....its hypnotic, and mesmerising to watch.  Day and night.... I don't want to miss a thing.

    *yawn stretch*

    Victoria

  • CrunchyPoodleMama
    CrunchyPoodleMama Member Posts: 1,220
    edited November 2010

    Well, maybe "blaring" was the wrong word, but many people do sleep with clock radio lights and other lights emitting artificial lights, and unfortunately many city-dwellers have city lights/street lamps streaming through their window rather than starlight (not to mention night owls like I used to be, who stare at their LCD screens or flickering television until the wee hours of the morning). The point is that even small amounts of artificial light have proven to be unhealthy -- not the natural moon and starlight you're talking about. The way you sleep, with fresh air and natural nighttime light without contamination of artificial light, is the ideal.

    And btw, as you know, the fresh air component is key too. All too many people (at least in this country) spend the entire year with windows firmly locked shut. Add to that the stuffy, recirculated air they breathe in their offices and gyms... we would all do well to follow your example and open those windows wide, and make sure much of our exercise is done outdoors in the fresh air and sunshine (I know all the women on this particular forum already aim to do that, but I haven't been sleeping with the windows open... thanks to your post reminding me, I shall begin doing so tonight!)

  • Kadyann
    Kadyann Member Posts: 53
    edited November 2010

    I have been having accupuncture treatments once a week to boost my wbc.  I have gotten through 3 of 6 treatments of TCH without needing the shots to boost counts.  My treatment is in 3 week cycles and counts do dip in the middle but have always come back up well within normal range.

  • asschercut
    asschercut Member Posts: 159
    edited November 2010

    That's really good to hear, Kadyann.

    Good going Julia...x

    The very idea that the mere opening of a window has become a concept, in this day and age...speaks in volumes. Our homes are a breeding ground for bacteria. I mean just think about all the stale pollutant air, people breath in their homes when they have indoor cats...with litter boxes, smokers, dirty carpets, cleaning products...and let's not forget the man shtoonk in the morning....or when someone's had a cold or flu, and they're exhaling their toxins and germs....and those windows are closed... then rest of the family takes it all in. Yuk! Open those damned widows...and breathe in some fresh air. And for people that live in the city...perhaps an air purifier is something to think about? I have a couple of air purifiers...just in case I need them in the winter months.

    Health benefits of fresh air...

    http://www.natural-health-restored.com/fresh-air.html

    Victoria

  • flannelette
    flannelette Member Posts: 984
    edited November 2010

    Lovely about sleeping in the starlight and moonlight - I recently pushed my bed against my big windows which look out to almost total natural dark (exept i can see a few Xmas lights in the distance) and have never felt happier about my sleeping arrangement. I'm lucky - live in the country.

    BUT - back to the immune boosting ideas. I have a book called The Complete Natural Medicine Guide to Breast Cancer: a practical manual for understanding, prevention and cure. Author Sat Dharam Kaur, Naturopathic Doctor. ISBN paperback 0-7788-0080-6. See if you can get this from the library, maybe on interloan. I borrowed it from the Nurse Navigators' display of reputable books on breast cancer, at my hospital, when I was first diagnosed. It's a Canadian book. Whole chapter on this topic, including rebounding, lymphatic dry brushing, herbs Western, Chinese and Ayurvedic. In fact, a hugely useful book, bought my own right away.

    I use  purchased mushroom extracts (Nikkon - 14 kinds) but do make my own astragalus tincture - as per the American herbalist Susun Weed, whose books you might already know. She also has a book specifically on breast cancer, called Breast Cancer - Breast Health. Making the tincture's fun, easy & cheap! You buy the dried astragalus root from a reputable possibly even local organic herbalist, and the rest is vodka  - don't worry, you end up consuming the teeniest amount of alcohol!

    I once took part in a scientific study, 20 yrs or so ago, when i had a mysterious illness (then) called Chronic Fatigue and Immune dysfunction syndrome - now often called fibromyalgai, i believe. All tests blood & urine were normal except I had NO - ie zero - natural killer cells. So no patrols at all, scouting about. The dr. told me it was an indication a massive viral battle had gone on inside - and I felt like a huge battle had gone on, for years.  I often wonder aboout that, in connection to my 4 inch tumor......hm... I guess will never know.

  • MariannaLaFrance
    MariannaLaFrance Member Posts: 777
    edited November 2010
    I am now dreaming of sleeping with windows open, with stars, by the beach! I live in Texas and that sounds soooo beautiful! If I slept with windows open, I'd have HUGE, monstrous mosquitos eating me alive!  Smile  I have a peaceful, starlit beach scene to visualize now!!!
  • MariannaLaFrance
    MariannaLaFrance Member Posts: 777
    edited November 2010

    P.S. I have added zinc to my vitamin regimen, based on my nutritionist's advice. I think it has helped boost my immunity greatly. I know that I won't be able to take higher doses for the long term, but in the short term, I've been taking 35mg daily. I suffered IBS-D for 5 years, so making up for lost nutrients and time....

  • sdstarfish
    sdstarfish Member Posts: 544
    edited November 2010

    I used maiatake to boost my count before I started chemo, and it worked. I also used what grass.

    Visit me at Pink Kitchen 

  • AmyIsStrong
    AmyIsStrong Member Posts: 1,755
    edited November 2010

    My integrative physician that I saw during chemo had me take whey protein during chemo and rads to help build WBC. Not sure if that is the same thing. I never needed the neupogen/neulasta shots! I mixed it with some applesauce and ate it every morning. Not too bad.

    I did find that  my sleep gradually improved 6 mo or so into tamox. I stopped waking during the night, or if I did, i would just go to the bathroom and then go right back to sleep. It might take your body a little while to get used to it. 

    And finally re melatonin, which my natura-doc wanted me to take as well (for BC prevention) - I take 6mg and go right to sleep and don't feel any different during the day. BUT one time the store was out of the regular kind and I bought time-release. HUGE difference - I had a terrible time getting up in the morning! Went back on the regular kind and no problem. So that might be worth considering.

    Amy

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited August 2013

    Amy, Do you think the Whey protein helped you sleep during the night? My Onc. wants me to get more protein in my diet while I'm healing from surgery. This might be a good way for me to up my protein.

  • apple
    apple Member Posts: 7,799
    edited November 2010

    you have to brush your teeth..

    for molasses, i just drink it straight.  a big tbsp every early afternoon. ... sometime i stir it into hot milk or water, both delicious.  i just pretend it is whiskey.

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited November 2010

    apple, you just drink it? I never even thought of that. I don't think I could take it straight, but maybe with milk.

    As far as brushing your teeth, I would sure hope so.

    Boy I'm really having issues with spelling since starting Femara. Not good!!

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