Has anyone had a masectomy because of dense breasts?
The path report from core needle biopsy states that I have intermediate grade DCIS. I haven't even seen the surgeon yet, but I'm contemplating a mastectomy even if a lumpectomy+radiation is an option.
It's not because I'm afraid of recurrence, although of course I am. I'm afraid that a recurrence wouldn't be picked up by breast imaging.
My breasts are difficult to read on imaging and therefore hard to monitor. Because my breasts are dense, nothing ever appears on a mammogram. I've had cysts, fibroadenomas and now DCIS and none of it has ever appeared on a mammogram. As for ultrasound, in my experience, the quality of the scan is only as good as the quality of the technician. The last time I had an ultrasound, two technicians and one radiologist had three different findings. Only one of them (the radiologist) picked up on the cancerous nodule.
Maybe an MRI can save the day, or in this case my breast, but all those false positives would drive me to drink.
Anyway, is this crazy talk? Has anyone had a mastectomy for DCIS just because imaging of their breasts are ineffective?
Comments
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That's exactly why I had a BMX instead of a MX. MRI found some suspicious areas that would have to be biopsied and watched and biopsied and watched… Ended up that there was a small amount of LCIS in that breast. Also my other breast had a 5.5 cm tumor and I had been doing regular mammograms.
I was actually considering the BMX before the MRI but the BS didn't feel we should remove healthy tissue but would support my decision… but after the MRI he did a complete 180.
What does your BS recommend?
Yes I had very dense tissue even at age 49
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It was one of the factors that influenced me, along with very strong family history....The whole picture needs to be considered, but the faith one has in imaging is a big component of "comfort level"..., IMO
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My advice is to wait until you have the MRI. I too have "extremely dense breast tissue" (the words of the radiologist on my mammo report). Yet for me, the MRI was very effective at seeing my full area of breast cancer, much more than what the mammo showed. Because the MRI showed that my breast was full of DCIS, it helped me decide that I had to have a mastectomy. But the MRI also gave me the "all clear" on my other breast - and this was despite having scar tissue from 2 previous excisional biopsies and 2 core needle biopsies (one done only a couple of weeks prior to that first MRI) and a known area of benign calcifications. So that gave me the confidence to stick with a single mastectomy only. I now get alternating mammos and MRIs every 6 months and so far, in 5 years, I haven't had one false positive from the MRI.
Also, don't underestimate the impact of having a mastectomy. It changes your body for the rest of your life. It might be the right decision for you, but it's not a decision to be taken lightly. If you have reconstruction, you end up with only a facsimile of a breast - something that looks like a breast - but it doesn't feel like a breast or have sensations like a breast or (if you have implant reconstruction) move like a breast. Reconstruction is not without problems or complications. Few women get through reconstruction without having one issue or another, some that can be resolved, but some that never can be. Additionally, most women are surprised by how much they are affected by the loss of their breast or breasts. Of course there are some lucky women who are never bothered by the loss, but at some point most women are struck by the loss. Usually this doesn't happen until after all the treatment is done and reconstruction is complete and often, until you've lived with the "new you" for a while. That's when it hits that these changes are permanent. These breast contortions when you move your muscle are permanent. The numbness is permanent (skin sensation may return but the breast itself has no feeling). The aches when you exert yourself too much are permanent. The lack of sexual sensation is permanent. The difference in feeling when you hug someone is permanent.
I had no choice but to have a single mastectomy. I am grateful every day that I still have one natural breast and that I only have to deal with reconstruction issues on one side. And I'm one of the lucky ones - I had an easy time with reconstruction with no pain and few issues and pretty decent results.
If you know that you can't live comfortably unless you have a bilateral mastectomy, then it probably is the right decision for you. But don't make the decision out of fear; make an educated decision. Take a read through the Reconstruction Forum to get an idea of what it's all about. And wait till you have the MRI and till you talk to your surgeon. Then do whatever is right for you.
Edited for typos only (it was late when I wrote this and I obviously wasn't seeing straight!
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please listen to Beesie. A mast is not something to be taken lightly (I don't think you are...it's just huge). It's a big surgery and you are stuck with that decision forever. I was in very good shape before my mast and I still don't have full strength or ROM in my arms. I find that very frustrating. I also do not want to be with my husband without my shirt on....ever. I am that self-conscious. They are numb, forever. If you need one, you need one but if I could have kept them ....in a minute. I had really no complications from surgery and in my clothes I look totally 'normal' but it's just not the same.
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I also have had dense breasts my entire life. I began mammograms at age 39 and had them faithfully. Despite this, my high grade comedo DCIS (7cm) was found by myself as a lump. The following mammo only showed two small areas of calcifications but after the mastectomy it was seen that there was at least 7cm extensively located throughout the breast. Because mammograms had pretty much failed me, I was ready to do a bilateral if there was any sniff of trouble in the "good" breast so I had an MRI prior. The MRI came out perfect, no suspicious areas whatsoever. My surgeon advised against removing healthy tissue so I had a unilateral mastectomy and a cosmetic reduction on the good side. When the path was in It was seen that I had LCIS in the good breast as well as other early proliferative changes. (flat epithelial atypia) I'm told MRI often will not show LCIS or other earlier changes. My "good" breast tissue was "very busy" according to the oncologist.Earlier on I was quite upset as I wanted the bilateral yet did not at that point wish to subject myself to more surgery. But as the ladies above state (and with which I couldn't agree more) it is not anywhere near the same as having your own breast (and I had autologous) and despite my current dilemma i still am not sure that I want to have it removed. I'm going to take my time and see how I feel as time goes on. I am now in a high risk group and the onc is trying to convince me to do Tamoxifen but I am not agreeable to this due to other health concerns re' my family history. So my point is the whole thing really is complex-the MRI/ultrasound/mammo (in my case anyway) did not tell the whole story and consistently underplayed my disease. Had I not had the tissue analyzed due to the reduction I would be thinking I was in the clear on that side. These screening tests are not what we wish or hope them to be. Take Care
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GEP: Sorry for your bumpy ride. Seems there is rarely a clear path...I wish our disease wasn't so fuzzy...and certainly wish the MRIs weren't so fuzzy either. I too was dense, active cells, etc.
I just had a bilateral althugh my non-involved breast "looked" fine. DCIS grade 2. It was extensive in my left although nothing only a tiny area showed up in MRI. I wanted to keep my right side but my doctor explained that my tiny dense self was completely unscreenable. And, I was so small that they don't make implants small enough to match (could have looked into other tissue options). Turned out the left was filled to the brim but nothing on the right. Since I had close margins of only 1mm (left breast was almost "all" dcis) at both chest wall and skin, seems they want me to do radiation and tamoxifin anyway.
My point being, that unfortunately neither are good option. I maybe (secretly) wished I had kept the right (especially after it turned out clear) but you just never know. It seems to me that to have a conservative (body-conserving) approach to is a good one. Now that you have new information, you can make a new decision. Certainly not fun to have to continually re-decide everything though. And not fun to do surgery every year. Good luck to you! I do believe strongly that the decision we make is the right decision!
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jamiehop - you I had seem to have had the exact same scenario. I finished my rads in July. I was told Tamoxifen wasn't needed though and am thankful for that! Good luck. Seems there are just a handful of us who had the mast and then needed rads!
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Yes, I have opted to have a mastectomy because of dense breasts. Mammo never found my tumor and by then it had invaded some lymph nodes and was nearly 2 cms (this was a digital diagnositic mammo, not a screening mammo). I had a lumpectomy and since have had other needle biopsies and now have scar tissue on top of everything else. I fear it will come back and never be "found" until it is too late.
Your decision, but I think you should. Dense breasts are not only harder to monitor but actually puts as at higher risk of getting cancer or a reccurence.
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Thank you everyone for your personal histories and your thoughtful advice. Thanks to your reponses, I have a framework from which to base my decisions. I meet with the surgeon tomorrow and my MRI is this upcoming Sunday.
I hope that the MRI works out to be a good imaging alternative for me. Another helpful member PM'd me with info regarding thermography, which I will also consider.
Will post back after my visit with the surgeon. Thank you again.
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Hi, another country heard from.
I don't miss my breast. I am 3 years out, and I am not my boobs....they are not "me"...they have changed up and down in size with losing and gaining weight and when they do, I do not agonize over losing a cup size or two....they fed my child, they did their job, my husband loves them, as he loves me; unconditionally. In fact, we love the new girl we adopted
. No, she doesn't have much feeling, but hey, not her fault! And she is still missing the nip, but will get one in the end to match her sister.
I am very matter of fact over this, I know. I have the exact same scenario as you. Not only do I now not match at all (b-C, and DD) which causes uncomfortable bra scenarios, tho I look fine in clothes, I am continually worried, as I had had the "best case" scenario 7 years ago....DCIS, no nodes, radiation, lumpectomy. 6 years of digital mammos completely missed the other cancer. They noted that I also have extremely dense breasts, a risk riser for getting bc again, as is having had it already.
Now, I wish to god I had had done both at the same time!!!
I will add this tho; if, you are a lady who feels connected to her breast, or they are an important part of sexual sensation for you, you may wish to think about what Beesie has said. For me, they are not, never were, so I can afford to think practically on this one.
Yes, every now and then, I wish I had not had to do this, but I had cancer. And after the second go round, with chemo, and since I could not get rads, having done it twice, I want to get off the continual worrying, monitoring, MRI ing, etc. It has taken too much of our lives from us already. I want to have my life back. I know they don't look the same; that's a given. Thank god they won't have cancer either (or there in only a 1% chance compared to a 30-40% chance now).
My breast redo looks so amazingly real, if you did not see the line on my back, and the lack of nipple, it'd be hard to tell. For me, it's a real no brainer, tho I am sure I willl cry the night before.
We do age; our breasts do sag, things do not continue to look great as time goes on. This is life, and I have chosen to fight like a beast to keep in the game.
My husband and I use an awful lot of humor to cope; we do say that all we did was "change the stuffing"" ala an old couch cushion. We say that the outside is still all me. Just the inside got changed
Good luck. Whatever YOUR decision is will be the right one for you!
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I think I had dense breasts once, but now that I've been ovary free for 13 years and lost 75 lbs, they don't seem dense anymore. Can they be read easier? I"m nearly flat chested and could go without a bra and no one would notice. Is that the same thing? I often wonder why they don't go straight to the ultra sound and skip the mammogram. It tells so much more. For instance, my bloodwork came back excellent, all normal and peachy. The nurse tells me that's got nothing to do with anything regarding DCIS. When I had my hysterectomy my CA 125 was around 200...big red flags. But after all was removed, no cancer. So, I am thinking there are markers, signs, things to watch out for. But every time I have a rotten killer headache, I think I have a brain tumor. The thing about DCIS is that is does not hurt. Who knows they have it before it's found? Yes, a lump, but many lumps are cysts, like my orginal one. It's a mysterious devil that sneaks up on you.
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Hi rianne,
I believe that fatty breast tissue (i.e. non-dense) is easier to read on mammograms than dense breast tissue. Dense breast tissue appears white on mammograms so it often masks calcifications, which are also white. Fatty breast tissue appears grey on mammograms, which makes it easier to ascertain the white calcification specks.
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Kittymama, that is exactly right. That is why I was very confused when my doctor still wanted me to get mammos . I refused and she said it would still be able to see microcalcifications if there were any. I seriously doubt that , since it neglected to find a nearly 2 cm tumor.
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I understand this dicussion and it's controversies. I have not been diagnosed with DCIS but have been DX with ALH and very dense breasts. I am currently awaiting an excisional on the 30th. I have a lump on my left breast that neither the mammo or the u/s showed. My breast tissue looks completely white. It did show a cluster of calcifications though. Why it can show that and not a lump is beyond me. I realize that the wait and watch with dense breast tissue is tricky and more likely to require biopsies and u/s's. That frightens me because so far this process has been emotionally and psychologically traumatic. I wonder if I have the "stuff" it takes to repeat all this every couple of years. I am however very attached to my breasts. My breasts are what u might call star players in my sex life and I don't want to lose that. I am afraid of never feeling my husband's touch again. I also do not want them cut into and poked at so much that they don't resemble "themselves" at all. I just hope that the results of my biopsy do not require that I make this decision right now because I know I'm not ready.
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Rshep, interesting about the microcalcifications. I certainly can understand a woman's hesitation on doing this, it varies for all of us. Personally, I am not that attached to my breasts. I have always been a little insecure about being small, actually. I also am not married, so the issue of never feeling a hubby's touch may never happen for me. Heck, I may never even have another date, lol!
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This might be a good time to remind people of Rianne's post from a few days ago. She had surgery and had DCIS in the margins and it did not become invasive cancer over 17 years.
I worry when I see so much over-reaction to DCIS, or even just ADH/ALH. Invasive cancer does not travel from one breast to the other; DCIS and lesser conditions like ADH not only can't move from one breast to the other but they are not life threatening in any way. Even invasive breast cancer in the breast is not life threatening - invasive cancer is a concern only in that it has the ability to move outside of the breast. DCIS cannot do this.
Yes, dense breasts can be a challenge but in the majority of cases, mammos do see calcs, even in dense breasts. Mammos are good at seeing calcs. There are other things that they are not as good at seeing so it's very possible that a mammo might miss a lump but still see a calc, even in very dense breast tissue. For those who are high risk and who have dense breasts, MRIs are a good option. If someone is hugely fearful and simply can't live in peace, then perhaps a bilateral mastectomy is a good idea, even for just DCIS or possibly even for ADH/ALH (although I'm not convinced about that). However what we have in this thread is a lot of "piling on" - a number of women with the same fears posting and reinforcing each other's fears. But what if your fears are, for the most part, an over-reaction? I'm not saying that they are, but each of you need to talk to your oncologists to understand what your real risks are. I am high risk to get BC again in my remaining breast but I was shocked when my oncologist told me my risk level - it's about 1/2 what I thought it would be. So I kept my breast and I get annual mammos and annual MRIs, alternating every 6 months. I have not had a false positive in 5 years since my diagnosis and I feel very comfortable knowing that I'm being screened every 6 months.
I understand the uncertainty that you are all facing, and the questions that you have, but for goodness sake don't allow yourself to be moved down a particular path based on what someone else says. The questions that are being posed are good ones; I'd suggest that you get the opinions of your doctors (and 2nd and 3rd opinions from other doctors, if necessary) and not be swayed by someone else's fears, simply because they reinforce your own.
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I just want to add that calcs don't always preceed a tumor. I had mammos every year (which never found anything, including calcifications). I do not know how reliable MRI's are for dense breasts, so I will be having a BLMX. I really don't have a lot of faith in the current diagnostics out there. Even when I felt my tumor and went for the ultrasound, the tech asked me to show her again where I felt it because she couldn't find anything.
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No, calcs usually don't preceed a tumor (a solid mass). I think most of us with DCIS know that, since DCIS only presents in the form of a tumor about 10% of the time. Calcs - in a particular size and formation - in and of themselves are a possible sign of the presence of breast cancer. But most calcs - well over 90% - are benign and harmless.
MRIs are considered to be very reliable for dense breasts. I have extremely dense breast tissue. My mammos did show my calcs (both benign ones in my left breast and cancerous ones in my right breast) and my MRIs have been very effective.
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Well, I can't speak for DCIS, mine was invasive...but I do know that MRI's aren't 100% accurate. Of course, neither is a BLMX - I know there is still a slight chance of recurrence, but I still am going to do it.
My aunt's tumor lit up like a Christmas tree on her mammo. If I had breasts like that, I wouldn't be getting a mastectomy.
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Hi ladies, I just wanted to post an update on my DCIS diagnosis. My original diagnosis was DCIS, which was determined by core biopsy of a 1.7cm area at 12 o'clock of my left breast.
Since then, I had a bilateral breast MRI that demonstrated more enhancement in my left breast, which the radiologist believes is characteristic of more extensive, diffuse DCIS in the upper outer and lower outer quadrants. I have decided on a mastectomy with immediate reconstruction on the left breast as I do not want more biopsies, waiting, multiple surgeries, etc... My BS said that many women with my scan results would opt for a mastectomy, but he did offer to start with a lumpectomy. I meet with a plastic surgeon on Monday, Dec. 20 to discuss reconstruction options. I'm super tiny, 5'3" and 105 lbs so not sure if anything other than a tissue expander and implant is an option.
Per the MRI, the right breast also had a 5mm enhancement, which was subsequently biopsied via ultrasound guidance. Per the pathology report for those biopsy samples no malignancy was evident. However, the radiologist states in her report that if ultrasound guided biopsy proves benign, that she wants to do an MRI-guided biopsy. I'm going to speak with the BS about going thru with an MRI-guided biopsy, especially since in her original report, the radiologist states that the enhancement is probably "parenchymal in nature."
So far, none of the imaging has indicated that there is invasion, which I'm happy about. However, nothing is certain until the surgery.
As to my concern that imaging is insufficient for dense breast tissue, I am somewhat relieved that the MRI picked up the DCIS that the mammogram did not. Oh my gosh, it picked up even more DCIS than I thought was there. So, if there are no further developments on my right breast, I will do a unilateral mastectomy on the left and monitor the hell out of the right with alternating MRIs and mammograms.
If anyone has experienced contradicting results with an ultrasound-guided biopsy vs. an MRI-guided biopsy, I'd love to hear from you.
Thank you, ladies!
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