lymph drainage massage - how to do

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Linjea
Linjea Member Posts: 15
edited June 2014 in Lymphedema

What is the right way to do lymph drainage massage on your arm? I have conflicting information and am not sure what is the best technique to use. How long should I spend doing the massage?

Also, I can get my hand down to normal size and appearance although when I get up in the morning within 1/2 hour the blood vessels in that hand and wrist are swollen. My index finger and my hand tends to swell at times and my hand and fingers have gotten to the point of having no knuckles or bones showing - just a big fat ball - but so far have been able to get it down. I am concerned about my forearm. There really isn't a measurable difference in size anymore from my other arm, but there is a visible difference. When I hold my arms up against my chest there is an indentation that runs down my forearm in my good arm but none at all in the lymphatic arm and the arm aches with a burning kind of feeling and feels different to the touch. I am wondering if I should be wrapping that arm at night or what. I have read here that there can be an increase in fluid in the arm of about 30% without any evidence of measurement increase. I have never been shown or told anything about wrapping except what I have read on this site but am thinking that there is still fluid built up in that arm.

Am still waiting for a new sleeve the fitter ordered. Very discouraged in that area. The old sleeve is wearing out. My arm gets really burny achy wearing it after a bit. The old glove causes my fingers to look like I have spent hours in the tub. They have deep indentations all down the fingers that match the fabric in the gloves and are squished looking when I take my glove off. The indentations are still there the next morning and never go away because I put my glove back on in the morning. I don't think my gloves should do that but the measurements for the gloves seem ok.

I have ordered a sleeve and gauntlet from the Lymphedivas internet site and I loved it but my index finger swole a bit. The sleeve was a bit tight in the forearm but so very comfortable otherwise - the measurements for the size small I got were good except for the forearm. I returned the sleeve and am waiting for the next bigger size to come to try that. In that one the wrist measurement is a bit too large but will try it and see if the finger issue is better. Worth a try, I think. I may not be able to get away with the gauntlet.

The saga never ends. I want some brownies!

Hugs to all,

Linjea

Comments

  • Binney4
    Binney4 Member Posts: 8,609
    edited October 2010

    Linjea, goodness yes -- brownies and a good lymphedema therapist!Smile

    Unfortunately, lymphedema massage (Manual Lymph Drainage, or MLD) and wrapping are not do-it-yourself. That's because learning the proper pressure, direction, and order of the massage is very critical and it depends on your own individual needs -- for instance, whether there is fibrosis or scarring present, what kind of surgery you've had, and the condition of the skin. Only a therapist can assess your particular needs and help you learn a technique that is workable for you.

    The point of the wrapping (which must be done with the proper pressure throughout or it will do more harm than good) is to help reduce the swelling by promoting lymph vessel function. Exercising or even just the ordinary movements of daily living help the wrapping work, but it also works well at night. Like Manual Lymph Drainage, this can only be taught in person, one-on-one with a really good therapist.

    The sleeves and gauntlet that you order are only for use AFTER the initial therapy (regular MLD and wrapping by a well-trained therapist). They don't reduce the swelling but only help maintain the reduction that happens with therapy.

    When you already have swelling in your hand a gauntlet is a bad idea, because it will cause the lymph fluid to be trapped in your fingers, where it is very difficult to get it out. And any sleeve that does not fit well on ANY PART of your arm will make matters worse, as the compression needs to be greater farther from your axilla and less as it moves up the arm. If it's looser at your wrist and then tighter in your forearm that will trap fluid around your wrist. When the off-the-shelf garments don't fit, it's time to be fitted for custom garments. BUT, again, that is only after you've had the therapy by a well-qualified therapist.

    Early stage lymphedema does sometimes reduce and then swell again. This is the stage where it is VERY IMPORTANT to begin therapy, because otherwise it will progress and produce fibrosis (hardening of the tissues inside) and more serious skin changes that may then be permanent. Please don't let that happen, as it's discouraging and disabling and will eventually affect your arm strength and range of motion.

    The achiness and pain are early indications of a need to get help with draining the stagnant lymph fluid and keeping it reduced and healthy. This will not only feel better and be much easier to manage, but it will help prevent the cellulitis infections that are so common in lymphedema.

    Here's a page of information about how to find a well-trained lymphedema therapist near you:
    http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Finding_a_Qualified_Lymphedema_Therapist.htm

    Hang in there -- there's help for this, and it makes a BIG difference.Smile And please let us know how we can help.

    Big, gentle hugs,
    Binney 

  • Linjea
    Linjea Member Posts: 15
    edited October 2010

    Thanks Binney. My physiotherapist gave me a sheet showing lymph drainage that says to start by massaging the neck, then the armpit of the good arm, then that side of the chest to that armpit, then the rest of the chest to the side already done, the shoulder of the bad arm to the neck, the upper arm to the neck, the upper forearm to the upper arm, the lower forearm to the  the upper forearm, the hand to the lower forearm, then the full arm to the neck, then side of the chest on the lymphatic side to the good side to the armpit area. There are to be 10 strokes on each area and it takes 30 minutes or more to do. The arm is massaged on the outer arm. She said I could also massage the under side of my arm in the same way if I want to.

    Then my Vodder trained massage therapist informed me that I should clear the neck, then the upper outer arm to the neck, then the full arm to the neck, then the hand and full arm to the neck, then the underside of the arm to the outer side of the arm in each area, then stroke accross the base of the neck from the bad side to the good and I was done. This is using just a few strokes on each area. Much faster but don't know if it is as effective so not sure which to do. What do you all do? 

  • Binney4
    Binney4 Member Posts: 8,609
    edited October 2010

    Linjea, did either of those therapists actually do MLD on you? Just curious, as it's nearly impossible to learn without some hands-on, but there are a lot of therapists out there who are not making the time/effort to do that.

    If you've had bilateral surgeries (don't know if you have or not), you don't want to move the fluid from the bc side to the "good" side, because both are at risk.

    There are several good lymphedema therapist training schools, and they each have their own unique take on this, though they all do basically the same thing about clearing nodes, then massaging the chest, etc. The differences come in the kind of strokes used (though all have to be very gentle). There is even one very good school that recommends that their patients not do self-mld at all, because we so often get it wrong anyway -- whether we forget a step or two, or we go too fast (the lymph system has a very slow rhythm), or we press too hard when we get frustrated or hurried.

    The issue really is, which works best for you? Two things to consider: which is more effective at reducing swelling, and which are you more likely to be able to pull off every day on an on-going basis. Keeping up this routine over time is a big part of the challenge, so we do need to be realistic about what we can actually do. There are a number of "short-cut" routines that help some women (and not others). For instance, using the first three sections of the Lebed exercise DVD is as effective for me as doing self-mld, but it may not be that way for others. For some, several short versions (that include node clearing and a few key massage strokes and/or some deep breathing or exercises) throughout the day work better than one (or two) whole self-mld routines.

    And just as an aside, therapists call self-mld "Simple Manual Lymph Drainage" or SMLD, but I sorta resent the term -- nothing simple about it!Yell

    Others will no doubt be along with their own versions of mld coping. Be well!
    Binney

  • Linjea
    Linjea Member Posts: 15
    edited October 2010

    The physiotherapist just handed me a sheet of paper and told me to follow the instructions and that I could do it on the underside of my arm as well as the outer side if I wanted to.

    The massage therapist is Vodder trained - gave instructions and showed me the shorter routine which only massages the neck on both sides, lymphatic arm and chest on affected side. She has done massage on my arm twice now.  I cannot see any difference in measurements using either method. My forearm ranges from 1 to 1.5 cm larger than my other arm. I don't know if I need to be wrapping my arm at night - no one has shown me how - or if I should be wearing a night sleeve or just to keep elevating it at night. Nothing seems to reduce it more. It is as far as I can get it down now. Lots of burning aching feeling in the arm often.

    The fitter is difficult to talk with and is the one who took my measurements over my armsleeve. Still waiting for the reorder of the sleeve to arrive. The one she got has a gauntlet without thumb and made my thumb and index finger swell right away. She sent for another made to measure with a thumb in it but it does not come with fingers. She likes the sleeves to be really tight and really firm. I get discouraged even thinking about it.

    Thank you for your awesome site. There is so much information here and support.

    Blessings and hugs,

    Linjea

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