Doctor yelled at me...
Has anyone else had this experience? I called nurse the week before my chest x ray and asked if I could have a PET scan instead. She said no, but I could talk about it with him at my appointment. At the appointment, he walked in the room, said, "I hear you want a PET scan." and launched into a tirade which could be heard in the entire clinic (he was definitely yelling), with my husband and two kids in shock. He twice called me "hyper paranoid" and said if all my "friends and family" were having PET scans, I could, too. He then implied that I decided not to do radiation because I was too vain about cosmetic outcomes, although at the time, he told me it was not indicated in my case. I have been having a pain in my rib on the b/c side, but I never got to tell him in the appointment, because he was yelling the whole time.
He did order the PET scan, though he never called me with the results. When I called, the nurse found them filed away in my chart. She said the scan was OK, but with some changes because of surgery. I am not sure if a rib met would mask itself as normal surgical change or not...I don't want to call and ask, to feed into his "hyper paranoid" view of me.
I know the obvious answer is to find a new doc, but in rural Kansas oncologists are hard to come by. Anybody else been called "hyper paranoid" or anything of the like by their oncologist?
Comments
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My onc yelled at me after she had made a mistake. But I live in a city with lots of oncs so I had choices.
Do you think there is another onc within driving distance? Once you finish the chemo and rads, for most of ust the visit to the onc is only once or twice a year. And, you should feel free to ask the nurse for copies of any and all reports on you. So ask her to please make a copy of the PET scan results. If you saw them, you might not worry so much and you are legally entitled to copies of your records. My docs just get me copies pretty much automatically.
Take care.
Cyber hugs.
Mandy
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KRobbins
what a shocking experience. I would add to Mandy's advice. Don't just get the written report related to your visits and your PET scan. Get a copy (probably on a disc) of the scan itself. You deserve to be treated better.
Good luck to you.
Julie E
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I am absolutely appalled at this doc's behavior. Even though there are not too many options for oncs in your area, this is totally unacceptable.
So - I suggest not only getting copies of your tests etc and finding a new doc, but also writing a letter to this onc and telling him why you are switching (after you get your files - you don't want him delaying your info out of pique).
It goes beyond "feelings". It is difficult to trust a doctor who has no respect for you. It is only a short hop from "lack of respect" to "lack of concern" . And "lack of concern" can lead to carelessness in treatment.
One more suggestion - if he gives you trouble about getting your records, just start making noises about HIPAA violations when he yelled so loud he could be heard in the waiting room. Sometimes you have to use any weapon you have to get what you want.
(Can you tell this has hit a nerve? The one thing I will not tolerate is a doc treating me disrespectfully.)
Leah
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I'd find another oncologist. See if your insurance covers in another town or city within driving distance. The doctor had no right to do that. I had an incompetant gi doc last year, so I fired him, and found a new one. It was no problem to do so and it was the best decision I made. I like the new doc much better and he's more caring and has helped me more than the first one ever did. keep us posted.
take care,
Deb
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I am able to obtain copies directly from the place they were taken ( some were at different facilities) you are certainly entitled to all your records!
What a horid experience...it is such a shame that anyone would act like that especially a 'proffessional'.
Best of luck to you!
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Dump him!
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Although she's never yelled at me, my primary doctor acted very frustrated and almost mean to me one time when we were talking about my treatment choices. Months later I asked her about the incident and found out that she had just lost a family friend to breast cancer when that had happened, so was upset because she thought I was wasting time by going to UCLA for a 2nd opinion after my lumpectomy and not immediately continuing with treatment locally. My point is, while there's no excuse for your doctor's behavior, I'm wondering if perhaps the root cause of his anger was something that upset him that had nothing to do with you. If you absolutely don't want to switch, I would certainly discuss this outburst and anything else that you're not happy about with him the next time you're there. But, as others have said, I'd probably be inclined to see who else is out there, even if you have to drive a couple of hours. The last thing you need is a doctor who is causing you stress! Deanna
PS ~ Just wanted to add -- I found talking to a psychologist in the breast center @ UCLA extremely helpful re. the what's too paranoid question. She helped me to understand that some fear is totally normal and that they want to check out any pain that lasts longer than whatever reasonable time limit I set for myself, such as 3 weeks. If you're wondering if you're being overly paranoid, perhaps talking to someone like this would be helpful.
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So sorry this happened to you! I have heard this story many times unfortunately. Maybe he was frustrated with his own problems or was just having a bad hair day. Either way, there's no excuse for yelling at another human being...ever!
I think all the suggestions are spot on. In addition, you can report him to the AMA board for disorderly conduct. They might only slap his wrist, but you'll feel better knowing you were proactive!
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My OB/GYN told me the pea sized lump was nothing to worry about, just a fibroadenoma. A year later I had a 7 cm IDC tumor. Now my oncologist acts as if it is absurd that my Stage III cancer could possibly return. I know he watches people die of cancer every day...how can he call me "hyper paranoid?"
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I'm not trying to excuse his comments, but would like to add 3 points-
1) They are human, and have off days too-much though we think their demenaour should be immaculate 24/7, that's simply way too ambitious an aim.
2)I agree with dlb-his anger was possiby directed at something/someone unrelated to you
3) Since he classes you as "hyper paranoid", there must have been something in your relationship with him in the past, which has lead him to think in this way.
Whilst I agree that he should have kept his temper under control, you maybe have to give some serious thought as to why he has reached this conclusion. It's so easy on a forum to always run to the defense of one of our own-but sometimes we really should be looking at the wider picture, and wondering why tensions/problems arise.This is in no way meant to be a criticism of your demeanour-but it sounds as if there are underlying issues which need to be addressed with him. You may be comfortable with another onc-but who knows. It would say a huge amount for your dignity and compassion if you could put this behind you,and work towards securing a better relationship with him from now. But then, I'm stubborn, and would try very, very hard to make something work before going off and replacing any doctor-who may, or may not be better than the one you are potentially leaving behind!
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I respectfully disagree with Elaine. I would look for another oncologist at all costs. Trust is so important between an oncologist and patient, and if he is calling you hyper paranoid and raising his voice (no excuse for this no matter what the cause of his frustration) how could you ever regain a trusting relationship with him? I agree with the ladies above - get all your reports and find a better oncologist - they are out there!
Best of luck!
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Elaine, I also have to disagree on this one. The issue is not "is his frustration at what he perceives as 'hyper-paranoid' justified" but it is his treating her in a demeaning fashion. And there's no excuse for that.
Leah
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I also disagree with Elaine. When I was first diagnosed I thought my only options were a county hospital or City of Hope for surgery. All through chemo my OS treated me with complete insensitivity, disregard and disrespect and every visit he yelled at me and told me I would die if I didn't follow his orders, I kid you not. He gave me no choices for surgery, refused to test my nodes and insisted on radiation and insisted I was Stage III which, by the way, only could have occurred because of his taking his time starting me on chemo. Even though I received a second opinion, because I didn't have insurance and MediCal was paying for my care, I still could only go to county. However, through sharing my dilemma with my weekly women's group I discovered a third option, a very well respected research and teaching hospital 5 minutes from home which, when I researched it, took my MediCal as full payment. Here I found the most amazing, thourough, cutting edge (pardon the pun) surgeons and here is where I had the best care I could have asked for. BTW: I ended up having no node involvement because they did check and I didn't need to have radiation, something that completely took me by surprise as I thought I didn't have a choice. Even if you have to travel, you have to love and trust your team and they have to love and respect you so that you can have the best possible outcome. I still need to write a letter to City of "No" Hope to complain about the head of breast surgery there!
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I'm just stubborn, Jacqueline, and if anyone made a comment like that to me-I'd be desperate to know what (if anything), I had done to precipitate it.It's not exactly the kind of comment that anyone would make, without having some cause to do so. All I was suggesting was for the poster to honestly examine her relationship with her onc., and see what may have caused this breakdown in communication.
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My breast surgeon would yell at me when I asked questions. I complained about her and her assistant to my oncologist. I also noted her behaviour when replying to questionaires in the mail from the Center where I was being treated. I'm almost done with her so, I shouldn't have to put up with her much longer. Since she was the only breast surgeon there, I was couldn't switch to someone else.
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your oncologist is a relationhip that you will have most likely for the rest of your life. even if coming in for once a year check up. trust...competency...relationship are the key issues that i want in my relationship with my oncologist. it is kinda like having a "teammate" you both have to work together on this issue of cancer......
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I noticed in another topic that you mentioned you are in your 30's with two young kids. That's an important piece of information.
I think Elaine has made some very good points if this is an onc that you highly respect and had a good relationship before this event. If I had an appt like this with my onc then I'd definitely follow her advice because I would know that it would be some sort of exception to his normal behavoir and caring attitude.
But I really can't see my onc doing this -- especially with 2 small kids in the room. Paranoia is one of the symptoms we experience. Sometime it's not medically justified and sometimes it is. But that doesn't change the fact that it is a real feeling and it is a part of the whole person package. We're not mice in a lab where you just treat the physical. We have lives and feelings. Quality of life and being about to move forward and live our lives should be part of an onc's goal to heal us.
But there is something else in your post that bothers me. If I'm reading it correctly he said rads were not indicated even though you are stage III and have 4 positive nodes. That doesn't mesh with what I've heard.
I believe it's time to take your records and go visit a cancer center where you can have a team (onc, surgeon, radiologist) review your records and either provide you the relief of knowing that you are getting good care or else make recommendations on a modification to your treatment plan. This will also give you a chance to air your very real (and need to be acknowledged as genuine) emotional concerns about mets and moving forward.
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Here's a list of some of the top cancer centers in the country. Since you haven't been too happy with at least two doctors in your area, maybe an NCI-designated facility in NE or CO is close enough to set up an appointment to review your treatment to date and possibly then use for your follow up care, which should only be every few months:
http://cancercenters.cancer.gov/cancer_centers/map-cancer-centers.html
Also, since you're new to BCO, I wanted to give you a heads up on the limit they impose on new users of 5 posts within a 24-hr. period, which was created to prevent spamming. I'm not exactly sure how long that lasts, but if you get cut off after 5 posts, you can continue to talk to anyone here by clicking on their screen name or avatar, which will take you to a page with a Private Message (PM) feature (like emailing). Deanna
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Well, Elaine, I do know what I have done to preipitate his "hyper paranoid" comment. He insisted to me that I would be able to work entirely through chemo and would feel fine since I am an athlete and physically fit. My body didn't cooperate and I had severe side effects during my 5 months of AC+ T chemo including severe migraines (ER visits), excacerbation of preexisting heart condition, bleeding ulcers of all mucous membranes (including bleeding rectum), sinus infection throughout, neutropenic fevers, nausea, severe bone pain, and incredible fatigue, probably caused by the severe anemia and neutropenia I experienced throughout chemo. My oncologist was continually annoyed at my side effects. Also, in June of 2009, my husband was in a severe burn accident (40%, all 2nd and 3rd, lots of grafting surgeries) and spent the summer in the burn unit fighting for his life. He pulled out of kidney failure and lived, just in time for me to be diagnosed with the 7 cm breast cancer tumor that my OB/GYN told me a year earlier was nothing. So, during my chemo, my husband was still having sking grafting srugeries. We have two small children we desperately want to raise. Oh, in addition to all of that, I was told my sentinal node biopsy during my bilateral mastectomy was negative. However, the next morning, the surgeon's resident came in to say that there was a mistake- it was actually positive. So I got to be wheeled back to surgery for a seperate incision to remove all lymph nodes from my right axilla.
During the time I was fighting breast cancer, so was my sister in law- my husbands sister who was 34 at time of diagnosis. Our dear friend and pediatrician died (age 40) of breast cancer when I was in the middle of my treatments. Started taking my seven year old to a counselor, then the counselor (about 40) was dianosed with breast cancer. My physician is aware of all of these circumstances.
I would think you would have to be pretty uninformed about what cancer is to not have a certain amount of concern that it may someday return. In my situation, it seems normal to have a healthy fear of it. I think after reading throuh these posts, I will get a second opinion by an oncologist about 1 1/2 hour away. I just want to know that my oncologist values my life and I certainly don't feel that way now.
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!Annoyed at your side effects"! Well, I'm speechless and completely amazed that anyone-let alone a medical professional, could find this a cause to be annoyed. Some people-a very small proportion-do react very severely to chemo and treatment-and you have clearly been one of those. As you said, everyone has fears-which do get rationalised as time goes by-but it can take many, many months-if not years-for this to happen. For him to expect you to cope with all of these additional problems just defies belief. Having become aware of the full story, I can only reiterate what the other girls have said-find someone else. I would put all your complaints into a letter (it may not achieve much, but it will have a certain therpeutic effect for you-and who knows, he may think twice before treating anyone else like this in the future). Even if it means a long travel-this has got to be a better option than being continually humiliated. I do wish we had known the full story though-it's difficult to answer at times when we don't have all the facts-and it's simply in my nature to try and see both points of view-which is what I tried to do with your post.
I hope you husband continues to thrive, and that you all have a much more peaceful, contented and trouble free life-for many years!
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i just was taught yet, again, that i need to go to any lengths to advocate for myself. i had "clean up surgery " with ps. a month GO, AND WENT TO HIM TWICE, TELLING HIM I WAS NOT FEELING WELL, WOUNDS HURT, I WANTED STRONGER ANTIBIOTICSsorry about caps..he sai i was " hyper paronoid" then, a wk later, they were red, i saw hi again. i really liked him till now.. he again, with more force told me i had nothing to worry about. i went to the er aweek later, this is now 3wks from surgery. asked them PLEASE just take blood work, i have an infection..again, go see ps. he yelled that i was making appts and taking valid ( high $) patients from seeing him. a week later, with pus erupting from said wounds i returned to er and was immediately quirintined sp and was told i had a very serious case of hospital aquired MRSA, and why didnt i come in sooner...spent 7 days 24 ivs was told i could have easily died. am having a wound care specialist coming home 3x awk..so, we DO have to stand up for ourselves...please make sure there are no options before you stay w/ a dr. that doesnt respect you. if, you were,(and i dont think you were ) hyper paronoid, he should be trying to ally your fears, not add more emoptional baggage to you. hope you CAN change, you deserveetter...light and love, 3jaysmom
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This behavior is terrible but… I have been told my oncologist that I have yet to meet doesn't have a good bed side manner. I hear she can be patronizing, unavailable for in person appointments and sometimes doesn't answer question.
So why did I set up an appointment with her 2 weeks after my surgery? Because she is know to be one of the best "bartenders" when it comes to chemo. She sounds extremely busy for in person appointments but will answer emails (usually in a phone call) from what I hear. If her chemo concoction is going to kill my cancer I'm sure I can deal with her personality.
Once you calm down you should at the very least discuss this with your nurse if you decide to stay with this doctor. You need to let them know how this upset you. Let them know that "yelling" is not except able and you definitely don't want everyone in the waiting room to hear about your personal medical information.
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krobbins,
I find his behavior to be vile and beyond inappropriate. It is not your responsibility to work him through any of his issues. I have been in the medical profession for 16 years, and there is no excuse. I have not always been perfect in my interactions...I try, and am human and have buttons. But I also know to excuse myself, get a grip and regroup.
You have been through unbelievable trials in trying to be heard, and I too have had MD's do the same to me (by ignoring my symptoms, not listening etc...) I was right each time, but was always the one who suffered the consequences, and still do. (non cancer stuff...but permanent damage.)
Listen to your heart and your gut.
Traci
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The doctor's behavior is totally unacceptable. I can't even imagine a dr yelling at me like that - if he doesn't want to deal with your "hper-paranoia" then he should fire you, not humiliate you. This is obviously another doc who feels god-like.
I saw my GI doc yesterday...I'm experiencing some scary symptoms and got the nurse to squeeze me in. He was patronizing, telling me and my husband that "people with cancer are extremely sensitive to any symptom" and that while he doesn't recommend a colonoscopy at this time he knows that I'll not be happy unless he scopes it out. Damned right. A colonoscopy is about the worst test to go through but I'm not taking any chances. He was patronizing but didn't call me any names or make me feel anything other than overly concious. If he had, I'd have walked out of his office.
You've been through way too much in your life to have to put up with such a bully. I understand your feeling of helplessness being in a rural area with few choices, I pray that you can find someone who is not only competent but compassionate....geesh, where do these people come from?
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\you can check www.ratemds.com to see if he had a bad day. I've had a stupid experience recently. Used to get copies of all my reports but have had none this year. When I called the oncologist's nurse she had a hissy fit and told me I would have to contact the medical legal department cause she didn't have time. This isn't over yet.
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Of course your best choice is to find another doctor who is taking his Ativans. Obviously, yours is not! Seriously, I know how these medical plans can hamper our choices of doctors so you may have to stick with him. However, I have found the best way to stop these kind of bad actions are to stand your ground and let him know you find his behavior unacceptable. My doctors may not "like" me very much because I point out their errors to them and double check every thing they do for me. But it is my life they are dealing with so I am not there to be their friend, just their patient and I expect or insist on being treated in a professional manner. You could be helping other patients by letting him know you are insulted by the way he is responding to you. Just be sure to speak to him in a professional manner (you may have to teach him "how" it's done). Best of luck to you!
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I would find another doctor, there is no excuse for a doctor to yell at a patient. I realize that doctors are humans and have bad days, but there are some lines that just aren't crossed and that is one of them. I understand being patient with someone who is having a bad day and overlooking some things, but I repeat there is no excuse for yelling at someone.
My mom took my daughter to an orthopedic for a follow up visit for a broken wrist. I was worried, as she had broken her wrist in the past cheering and knew we had to be careful with the healing process. I sent my Mom with questions. The dr barely looked at my daughter's arm, told her nothing was wrong and started to leave when my Mom asked him a question, he went off the wall, screaming yelling, throwing things and ended it by walking out yelling to his nurse that "the grandma" didn't know what she was talking about. My poor daughter was so upset, but had the good sense to catch it all on her phone. I reported him, we went to another doctor and as it turned out there was a problem it required another cast and months and months of rehab to correct. The doctor that yelled at my mom was suppose to be the best in the area, top notch, treats athletes, pro teams, etc..... In my opinion he was a jerk who didn't deserve our business.
The reason for my story - there are too many other doctors out there willing to treat you. There are many, many great oncologist that are doing what they do because they want to help people and they are there to help you not ridicule you or make you feel incompetent. Remember, they work for you - you and your insurance company (for which you pay for) are paying his salary.
Good luck and I'm sorry you had to have such a bad experience when you're already dealing with so much in your life.
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I'll be he's an impaired physician. Impaired physician refers to a physician who is substance abusing. That would explain his over the top behavior--it was more than just yelling at you. And i would definitely get a new oncologist-i wouldn't consider him all that capable. Please, don't everyone "flame" me--i used to coordinate conferences for impaired professionals--a lot do recover and are top-notch docs.
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This behavior is not only outrageous it is totally unacceptable. You are the customer, you pay him for his services, not his temper tantrums.
I am in the medical field and whenever anyone, a doctor, my boss, a patient starts to yell at me, I simply hold up my hand and calmly say, "This conversation is over, when you have calmed down and are ready to talk like an adult we can continue". That always stops them in their tracks and they always apologize. A few have walked away but not for long, they always return and the conversation continues.
Nothing productive can occur when one of the parties cannot control them them-self.
No one, and I mean no one has the right to scream at you.
I would find another doctor, if that is not possible then on my next visit I would let him know that before any exam starts that his behavior at your last visit was unacceptable and caused you great stress and will not be tolerated again. Remind him that you hired him and expect him to advise you on the best plan of care.
I know this will be hard for you, I'm sure you don't want to upset him, but believe me if you tolerate that kind of behavior from anyone it will only get worse. My suggestion is hard to do at first but gets easier and easier each time you do it.
Good luck,
Grace
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Everyone has said what I have been thinking as my mouth hangs open. I cannot imagine being yelled at like that.
My surgeon (an excellent dr.) became defensive once over a question I asked her about my pathology report regarding a cyst after treatment was over. She grabbed the report out of my hand and said, "Are you here to talk to me or read your pathology report?" I said, "I am here to see if I have cancer again. I'm sorry it bothers you that I am asking a question but when you have already had stage III cancer you want to know what the pathology says." She backed off and appologized.
I'm telling you this story because I ended up sharing it with my rad. onc. and he said, "You know, there are excellent surgeons who don't yell at people."
I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I hope you can find a new dr. who treats you the way you should be treated.
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