Running/Aerobic-good or bad?

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calamtykel
calamtykel Member Posts: 1,187
edited June 2014 in Working on Your Fitness

On January 1 of this year, I decided that I'd had enough of being out of shape and overweight.  I began walking and gentle running 10 to 15 minutes a day.  Just to get out, kick the winter blah's, get my heart rate up, oxygenate and all that good stuff.  I discovered I loved it.  I began to look forward to it each day.  I continued it at least 5 days a week and worked up to 35 minutes and then I found out I had BC in June. 

However shortly after my surgery I was out there again.  I feel SO much better when I run - I love running!  Walking doesn't do it for me - I love pushing myself and coming in all hot, sweaty and winded for a nice cool bath.  

But now I just read sevearal studies done on high intensity aerobics/running and killer NK cells.  NK cells are the cells in our bodies that kill cancer and abnormal cells.  After high impact exercise, it was found that these cells decrease significantly in the body for 2 hours and do not return to normal until 24 hours.  Does this mean if I'm running each night (and I do other stuff -my sit ups, leg lifts and such are all part of my routine) that I'm INCREASING my cancer risk??
WTH?!   These studies say that he release of endorphins which comes along with higher intensity exercise is a bad thing - that the endorphins suppress the NK cells!

Here I've been thinking I've been doing something great for myself.  I have never felt stronger or better --it has decreased my stress levels and boosted my immunity.  I love running!  I had my first chemo on Monday and did moderate exercise the first couple of days and the last two nights I went running.  I feel great!  My head is clear, aches are gone, etc.

But I'm TOTALLY thrown for a loop with these studies.  So we're only supposed to "moderate" excercise?  I can see myself totally losing interest and drying up if Im' reduced to only "walking"....

HELP!  Any insights?  I feel as if BC has taken so much from me, and it wasn't going to take this too - and now it seems like it has after I read these studies!

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  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited August 2010

    Keep running, other studies have shown that exercise actually improves the effectiveness of treatments and reduces SE (and for sure if you exercise, you will bounce back quicker after treatment is done). No matter what you do, some 'study' is going to come out saying that it's wrong, don't spend too much time thinking about them or you will drive yourself crazy!

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  • Dilly
    Dilly Member Posts: 655
    edited August 2010
    I was reading some of Dr. Susan Love's work the other day, and she thinks we all should be able to jog or run a mile. (no matter the pace).  Me, I'll stick to walking, but if Dr. Love says running is ok, then I'd think you're pretty safe.  Her website has a lot of good info.Smile
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  • calamtykel
    calamtykel Member Posts: 1,187
    edited August 2010

    This was the link I found.  http://www.cancerproject.org/survival/factors/exercise.php

     I think the confusing thing to me is that they say that "moderate" exercise is good, whereas "intense" is bad.  But I've been trying to lose weight (before chemo - now I'm just trying to maintain!) and build muscle.  So I don't think a "stroll" is going to do that for me.  For me, running has become more of a mental than a physical thing.  

    I guess I'm just frustrated.  I've always read that higher intensity exercise releases endorphins and that is a good thing.  Now they say it diminishes killer NK cells and it's NOT a good thing.  

    I don't plan on giving it up - if I do, I will end up gaining weight and being depressed and THAT's not good for cancer either.  I was just surprised and dismayed by this study........

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  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited August 2010

    In general I use what I read online as a guide for questions to ask my doctor. I assume you trust your oncologist… as her/him. I have yet to meet my oncologist but there are a few on this list that have her too. They say she insists here patients exercise. She also claims that chemo doesn't make you fat. It's what you eat and the lack of activity that makes you put on weight.

    Being ER+ the extra weight will be bad for you. If you are put into menopause the fat will take over making estrogen (once the ovaries stop). This isn't debated. Sounds to me that you are better off keeping off the fat then quitting intense exercise because some of article.

    I too started exercising 7-8 months ago. Finally lost that 7lbs and developed some nice muscles. (I do strength training with small 5,8,10 lbs weights 2-3 times a week - and 3-4 times a week to 35 minutes on the elliptical then 30 minutes fast paced walk on the treadmill). It took a long time to work up to this. I don't want to stop although I know I won't be holding those weights for a bit after surgery.

    I actually don't like exercising. I love when I'm done. I feel more energetic and it reduces stress.

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  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited August 2010

    I kept up an exercise schedule on chemo; not as intense simply because I couldn't. But I made sure I did something everyday. I didn't gain or lose weight. I also think most of the weight gain comes from the fact that most people don't exercise much (or any), your overall 'get out and do stuff' activity level is down, and people bring you 'comfort' foods (thank goodness chocolate tasted like CHALK to me, or I WOULD have gained weight!). Lago, an interesting thing happened to me; because I couldn't do upper body stuff for awhile and then had to start slowly with really light weights, I concentrated on lower body toning (which I have never liked very much) and ended up trimming up the lower half so much that I went down a pants size without losing weight! So I would say to keep at it, if you can stay at the level you're on that's awesome but either way, push yourself to do something everyday, starting with wadding up that study and throwing it in the trash Smile! Ruth

    edited to add that the American Cancer Society has a booklet about exercises to do right after breast surgery that I found helpful, you might want to see if you can get a copy. If you can't track one down but would like it,  PM me your address and I will send you one, I made extra copies.

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  • NatureGrrl
    NatureGrrl Member Posts: 1,367
    edited August 2010

    I know what you mean about the satisfaction of a run vs. a walk -- the two aren't the same for me, either, although right now I'm certainly no runner and not sure I'll ever go back there. But never say never! I still feel the pull even if my body isn't there.

    Anyway, I didn't want to reply until I read what you read, and I couldn't get the link to take me to the article, so I searched their site until I found it (I think it's the same one).  I'm not sure your level of exercise is the same as what they mentioned; what I read was (bold is mine),

    "However, Nieman's research team also reported that trained marathon runners experienced a decline in NK cell activity for 21 hours after they completed a 3-hour run. The regimen of high-intensity, long-duration exercise increased the body's production of adrenaline and cortisol, stress-related hormones which tend to depress the immune system."

    This is a reputable website and they back up their statements with citations to scientific research, but it's important to not read more than what's really there.  Journalists sometimes do that and that's where we get articles that aren't factual or are one-sided but there's a huge difference between that and the actual research.  Stress on the body is stress on the body, regardless of source (physical, emotional, mental).  And too much exercise can be stressful on your body, but unless you're planning on training for a marathon, I doubt you have much to worry about.  If you're concerned, find the original research and take it to your dr. and talk with him/her about it, but I think you're doing the right thing.  Running was always meditation for me as much or more than anything else, and that's going to help you a lot through all this.  And as lago says, it feels so good when you stop! :)  Hang in there, and good luck!

     

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  • AnneW
    AnneW Member Posts: 4,050
    edited August 2010

    I live in a town where "intense exercise" is a standard. There are a gazillion "elite athletes" here. (I am not one of them!!) They are marathoners, triathletes, professional cyclists, endurance athletes--and they are an amazingly healthy lot. I know of a couple cyclists who have survived breast cancer, and they are out there training just as hard (we're talking full-time job here!) and no sign of recurrences, and no apparent increase in cancers overall due to the effects of intense training on the immune system.

    I'd venture to say that most of us here do not train at that level of intensity, day in and day out. In that regard, I'd say we're better off with our moderate exercise than with none at all.

    Calamtykel, run girl run!

    Anne

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  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited August 2010

    Another thought; it probably would be a bad idea to START a vigorous exercise program at the beginning of treatment; but for you running is not extreme, it is the norm, what your body expects and is used to. I know there is a runner's thread on BCO, you might want to check it out. Best wishes. Ruth

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  • LadyinBama
    LadyinBama Member Posts: 1,132
    edited August 2010

    All I can add is two words: Lance Armstrong. Now if what he has done and still does is not Intense, I don't know what is! And he kicked this disease's butt.

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  • calamtykel
    calamtykel Member Posts: 1,187
    edited August 2010

    Thanks ladies!  You're right - I certainly cannot run three hours a night! :D  And part of my 35 or so minute routine is strength training - deep knee bends and lying in my driveway at the end and doing my tummy exercises and such.   I guess for me, this is "intense" but maybe they're talking REALLY intense as in hours at a time.  I guess I don't know the diff between moderate and intense. 

    I plan to ask my oncologist about all this too though.  Just interested in her thoughts.  I know originally when I got my chemo I asked if I could still exercise and she said "YES YES YES!"  I said "Run?"  She said "Well, do what you can -listen to your body - walk if you have to".  I did walk the first couple of nights but then once I began feeling better I went running - it wasn't as long as I usually do, but enough to get the blood circulating good!

    I'm noticing that it's easy to eat on chemo, isn't it??  UGH!  Everybody brings great dinners over and sometimes eating just quells that nauseous feeling to be nibbling on something- especially sweet things like commercial yogurt that I wouldn't ordinarily eat.  I'm still overweight of where I should be BUT I'm happy to have dropped the 20lb that I did since January!  

    I plan on trying to keep going as much as possible - 1 treatment of AC down, 3 to go and then 4 of taxol......

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  • NatureGrrl
    NatureGrrl Member Posts: 1,367
    edited August 2010

    You'll get through it, calamtykel, and you'll get through it better because of your exercise.  My one regret was that I didn't do more (in fact, it got to where I wasn't doing any) but I was so overwhelmed and wiped out (I was also taking care of my mother, who had her own cancer plus dementia issues) so I try not to beat myself up over that one. 

    I only had appetite on my steroid days but I think I ate enough on those few days to see me through a month or more Tongue out -- plus I was eating pretty unhealthy because it was about all that tasted good. Keeping something in my stomach did help with the queasiness.  My dr. was emphatic that I not try to lose weight during treatment because my body needed the energy to heal but for me that turned out to be a non-issue!

    Do the best you can and know that the good women of this board will support/empathize any time you need it!

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  • Member_of_the_Club
    Member_of_the_Club Member Posts: 3,646
    edited August 2010

    Yikes, I do run for several hours once a week when I do my long run and I'm planning to train for a spring marathon.  U will have to look into this some more.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2010

    Anne, I would shoot myself if I lived in Boulder!! Talk about supreme atheletes! I used to be one but am now 90 pounds overweight-for real!! I have begun a new road sport-waddling! I waddle to the PO Box and back. Lordy if anyone can run-my hats off to you!! This is not a doctors opinion and I do agree, check with doctor but remember, we have freaking cancer for G-sake and anyone who can run I SO wish I was right there with you. I am 10 months out of my diagnosis and supposedly remain in remission. But I guess I look at exercise as a "quality of life issue." Man if you love it, go for it!! xxoo, SV

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  • Member_of_the_Club
    Member_of_the_Club Member Posts: 3,646
    edited August 2010

    OK, because I was a bit alarmed I went to the link and although it does talk about NK levels, it cites absolutely no studies finding a link between intense exercise and survival (or lack thereof).  In other words, they were looking at this factor in people's blood, but not looking at actual survival rates.  So while intense exercise might lead to a decline in NK cells, there may be something else at work that has a positive effect on survival that outweighs this. There are several studies that find intense exercise increases survival for other types of cancers.  For breast cancer, I found this:

    http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/content/full/55/5/265

    This study found that moderate exercise was better than a little exercise but intense exercise provided no benefit above the moderate.  But it didn't show less benefit either, its just that the benefit levels off. 

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  • NatureGrrl
    NatureGrrl Member Posts: 1,367
    edited September 2010

    stillvert, I don't know if you'll see this, but I just about fell out of my chair laughing at your new sport - waddling!  Maybe we should start a team.  Thanks for the smiles and laughter!!  Photobucket

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  • surfette
    surfette Member Posts: 232
    edited September 2010

    I'm going in for lumpectomy surgery on Wednesday and plan to get back to my regular INTENSE workouts ASAP. Life on a low-octane exercise plan is not living to me.

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  • jogreen68
    jogreen68 Member Posts: 3
    edited September 2010

    I am training for a 5k run now, it just a start but better than nothing! I would advise anyone to try the couch to 5k plan, it has got me motivated.

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