Please Read If You Are Considering a Preventative MX
Comments
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FYI- There are many NCI Cancer Centers offering nipple sparing so do not be mis-informed that they are not offering this procedure. I will be having a preventative NSM performed soon at an NCI Center. I am confident with my risk reduction being quite satisfactory with the cosmetic outcome outweighing the oncological risks. The chances of developing a carcinoma at the site of the NAC is extremely low, approximately 2-3% risk, acccording to most research. Nipple sparing can also be offered with ALL types of reconstruction, whether it be flaps, direct immediate implants or expanders. Much of the success of nipple sparing is due to the surgeon's experience/ technique, using scalpel dissection AND placement of incisions. If any surgeon tells you many and/or most nipples become necrotic or lost with this procedure....FIND ANOTHER SURGEON. Surgeons who are against this procedure have no experience and minmal knowledge of the oncological safety. Women simply need to know all their options. Another important factor regarding frozen sections done intra-op during the procedure, all nipples are biopsied during surgery , but frozen sections are not completely reliable and a real biopsy requires a full comprehensive pathology report. Many surgeons do not perform frozen sections for this reason and will remove any nipples AFTER a full pathology is completed. This usually means another surgery a week or later after the mastectomy, but this is extremely RARE!! One top nipple sparing surgeon who has performed over 250 NSM's told me its happened twice in his career.
Below are several great articles for those wanting to learn more information about the viability of nipple sparing option!!!
http://www.diepflap.com/nipple_sparing_mastectomy.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20101646?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19483564?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed
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vmudrow- I consider myself very lucky, too, that I could find a surgeon in my area that specializes in NSM. I truly believe this will be the way of the future and the old kind of MX will seem barbaric. I say all of us who have had this done spread the word! Instead of save the whales let's SAVE THE NIPPLES!!!
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from the Breast Preservation Foundation's website.
NSM & SSM : What to Ask Your Surgeon(s)
Questions for Your General, Breast or Oncologic Surgeon & Plastic Surgeon
- Where and when did you receive your general surgery training?
- Are you board certified in general surgery?
If not, why not? - Are you in good standing with the medical board?
- How many mastectomies do you perform on a yearly basis?
- What type and percentage of types of mastectomies do you perform most?
(types are: lumpectomy, traditional mastectomies, and skin-sparing mastectomies) - Are you familiar with and do you perform skin-sparing mastectomies?
If not, would you please recommend a general surgeon who is, for a second opinion?
If yes, how many have you performed? - Is there any reason why I would not be a candidate?
(The main reason would be that breast skin is invaded. Note that skin is not the same as breast tissue! Or if the breast cancer is at an advanced stage. Read inclusion and exclusion section.) - What will the scars on my breast look like?
- Do you have photos of your mastectomies to show me?
If not, please show me a medical journal photo that resembles your work. - EXACTLY what skin will be removed?
(If it is most of the breast skin, then it is NOT skin-sparing!) - EXACTLY where will the scars be located?
(You may want to ask your doctor to DRAW the scars with marker on your body.) With a skin-sparing mastectomy, the marks MUST be drawn in a KEYHOLE pattern, (i.e. under the breast fold, coming up to and around the nipple.) A traditional mastectomy will be one or two long incisions across the front of the breast, leaving little or no breast skin.) - Who will do the marking for the incision? You or the plastic surgeon?
- Can the plastic or oncoplastic surgeon do the marking?
If not, why not? - If not reconstructed at the time of mastectomy, then what communication are you, the general surgeon, going to have with the plastic surgeon about the incisions placement before the surgery so you have the best possible cosmetic result?
- Am I a candidate for immediate reconstruction (at the time of mastectomy)?
If not, why not? - If I have future reconstruction, will the surgery leave my breast skin so I can have a skin-sparing mastectomy?
- What plastic surgeons do you work with?
- Will the plastic surgeon do the pre-surgical marking and determine the location of the incisions?
- Would you be willing to provide me with the name of another general surgeon for a second opinion?
Questions for the Plastic Surgeon
- Ask the questions above, making the appropriate substitutions.
- Do not be shy to ask to see photos of their work, and for the name of a second opinion.
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Kate-
It was very good of you to make the readers here aware of NSM. I went through Yale and I did not want to even consider NSM b/c one surgeon I saw at a different hospital when I first found out I had BC said the nipple is similar to a jelly fish with all this "tissue" hanging off of it etc... and that was enough to do it for me! Bottom line, although I may have wanted my nipples, I wanted my recurrence as low as possible so goodbye nipples!
The other thing everyone has to consider is you might go into surgery with a DCIS prognosis and wake up to an invasive dx. All things to consider but if you feel strongly about keeping your nipples then by all means you should do whatever you need to keep them.Liz
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lizzymack1- There are actually several women on the other site who did have invasive BC but still had NSM. I think there is a lot of confusion regarding this. When you have a traditional MX there is going to be some breast tissue left behind. They just cannot get every single cell. So if you have invasive cancer they will have you do chemo. During surgery they scrape the cells within the nipple and biopsy them right then and there (while you are still under). If they detect any cancer the nipple is removed along with your breast tissue. If no cancer is detected in the nipple then they just remove the breast tissue. Once the breast tissue is removed there is no way for it to feed cancer cells into the nipple. BC does not start in the nipple. It starts in the breast tissue.
Now if they find you have invasive cancer, they remove the breast tissue, test the nipple and then afterwards you will receive chemo. The purpose of chemo is to kill any stray cancer cells remaining. If you're worried about stray cells in the nipple the chemo would kill those as well.
So having invasive BC does not prevent you from having NSM. If anyone would like to talk to someone who had it done please check the other thread and PM anyone you see who had the same type of cancer you did. They would be happy to tell you about their experience.
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I understand where you ladies are coming from but, as intelligent women, I am sure you will be interested in the other side of the story.
In May I had a left total mastectomy (skin sparing with immediate TRAM recon.) for multi focal ILC. Histology came back with that, but also a previously undetected IDC and, more important to this discussion Paget's Disease of the nipple.
My breast surgeon's comment was :" If we had done a nipple sparing mastectomy and left that nipple everything else would had been worthless as we'd have left cancer cells"
I had no signs or symptoms of the Pagets at all. I realise that mine was an unusual presentation, but not a unique one.
Gosh - this decision making in BC isn't easy is it .. so much to consider.
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Isla, I want to be sure I absolutely understood you correctly so myself and other women here are NOT mis-informed about the viability & safety of nipple sparing for certain candidates when they meet specific criteria. I do not believe you were ever a candidate for nipple sparing based on the preop findings/information you provided. As you mentioned, you had a diagnosis of MULTIFOCAL ILC in your left breast PRIOR to the mastectomy. Is this correct? If so, it is my understanding nipple sparing would not be a possible option for you with this diagnosis, especially given its multifocality which is also characteristic of ILC. This could have resulted in negligence just as your breast surgeon suggested. If indeed this is the case and Pagets Disease of the nipple were found incidentially during surgery, as you also mentioned, then your surgeons provided you with Standard of Care by the skin sparing mastectomy you were given based on your PRE-OP Diagnosis and POST-OP Diagnosis. Women who have other certain pre-op carcinoma findings are eligible for nipple sparing, but this would often NOT include the specific findings you had, unfortunately. The bottom line is knowing what may be oncologically safe for certain diagnosis's may NOT be safe for others to be included for a NSM. I just wanted to clarify this for others so they may seek this possible option if deemed safe by many oncological surgeons. Many small invasive ductal carcinomas located far enough away from the NAC could be quite eligible for NSM, but not many invasive lobular carcinomas, again just as you described. Thanks for sharing your story and glad you are doing well!!!
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Hi Ladies- Just a little update. I saw my BS today post-op after exchange surgery. I told her about our discussion boards and how some of us are trying to educate women on the option of nipple saving mastectomies. I have said that women with large breasts are not considered good candidates for this procedure but I wasn't sure what was considered to be "large". My BS said generally most BS will only consider you for a NSM if you are about a C cup or smaller. (Again, other considerations would be type and location of cancer if you have already been diagnosed.) The reason being it is too difficult to maintain blood supply to the nipple when it has so far to travel and the size of the implant required for reconstruction can create problems as well.
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Kate33, I have found in another instance, with DIEP, that it seems like surgeons that do TRAM tend to promote TRAM and discourage against DIEP and since there are not a lot of surgeons that do DIEP, the information and recommendations for DIEP is not common. Seems like this is the same with this line of surgery.
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Hi, I am not exactly new to the forum; I have been reading not posting. I have no cancer diagnoses and one benign lumpectomy many years ago. Adopted and since finding my birth mom she did have cancer in one breast and a mastectomy. But, she was already 70. I have decided upon a prophylactic bi-lateral mastectomy with immediated reconstruction. My breast surgeon will be doing the nipple and skin sparing surgery and the plastic surgeon will be using tissue expanders. My surgery is August 23rd. I really wanted the implant right away (or thought I did) but the PS insists I have to do the TE. She came highly recommended to me and when my insurance notified me they were covering this I did not want to change everything midstream and risk losing the coverage. I want to have this all completed prior to September 1st and medicare kicking in.
This is such a great forum and each of you are so special for sharing and helping others. Way to go.
I am 64, weigh 228, 40 DD/D(lumpectomy side).
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gulfcoastgirl- Great to hear from you! Someone just PM'd me and let me know that some surgeons are now doing nipple sparing mastectomies on larger breasted women. I think that is so awesome! I think this option should be available to as many women as possible. I know, for me, being able to keep my nipples made a huge difference in my acceptance of my MX. I, also, did the TE's. It's not too bad, just time consuming, but I do think they are able to get a better result. Also, after MX your implants are placed beneath the pectoral muscles so they need to stretch those out slowly especially if you are planning on going with a larger implant.
There is a great thread on here for all the nipple sparing women if you'd like to check it out. The link is-
http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/44/topic/745796?page=40#idx_1200
The title of the thread is Nipple Sparing Mastectomy with immediate reconstruction but all women who have had a NSM are posting on it. I think most of them have had TE's. Hope to see you on there. Good luck with your surgery on the 23rd. If you have any questions about preparing for your MX I can direct you to some threads that have lots of advice on what to do/buy/pack beforehand.
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While NSM is a great option, please know before you get your hopes up that NOT all women are a candidate.
I have the BRCA 2 gene, and there is evidence that women with this mutation who had NSM later go on to develop breast cancer. So while you should discuss it with your doctor (Which I did, and got two other opinions) be prepared that you simply may not be a candidate.
I'm also going to say as someone who had a NNSM, it wasn't as bad as everyone paints it out to be. I was worried that I would be branded a freak (I'm only 27) and have a hard time dating, etc.
In the end - I can honetly say that I don't miss my nipples, and have no plans to get new ones. But that is your choice, and you should be as educated as possible going in.
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