What bad thing can happen to implants if you do weight training?

I know what you mean....physicalilty and going back to my previous activites was super important to me.  I cannot speak to the question re: contact sports... I'm a weightlifter and runner.  All I can "add" to your decision making process, is that I have had bilateral mastectomies, and I am very pleased overall.  I did not require radiation, since I had two spots of DCIS without any microinvasion....so the mastectomies took care of it.  I am back to running and weightlifting at my pre-cancer condition.   My fitness lifestyle was very important to me.

Each women has to weigh her options with consideration to the full scope of her lifestyle.

Do what will enable you to resume to the optimum, the life you enjoy.

Praying for your wisdom and discernment in your decision making process.

xo,

Sue

OnEagles( and everyone else)-

I really need your advice.   I have been weightlifting for years and did body build some years ago.   I still love lifting etc... and am really, reallly concerned about my upcoming bilateral and the potential I might not regain upper body strength.  I have, all over the net, read horror stories of women who never get strength back.   Unfortunately I have not been able to ascertain what their level (s) of activity were before surgery.  

Do you feel that you previous working out *helped* your resiliency relative to post-surgery strength regaining?  Also, do you feel your implants "slip?"   Furthermore, how long was it before you were strong again?   Isn't it the lymph node removal that really negates the strength in the affected side?  When one has a bmx, strength is only affected in the cancer side, correct?  I am 40 years old and don't want to start living like I am 80.  As I said, I have been recently reading information where women who had mx/bmx have had to ask people to open doors for them.   Pre-dx I was benching 115 which was light for me.  I am so perplexed and consummed by all of this.   No matter which way you go, the potential for the most dreadful side effects is evident. 

Everyone wants to make the right decision and try to bring recurrence low, thereby hopefully putting this mess in the rear view, but the roads are all paved with sand. 

 Any information on personal experience is welcomed.   I need to know what I can expect after surgery and the doctors, who I have already consulted with, can only tell me so much.   A collective reasoning is far more pertinent than what a doctor can tell me at this point.

Thanks-

Wow, you are my inspiration. You look great!!  Actually you all are amazing.  I just had Bmx 4 weeks, ago. I walked 5 miles the other day, and every muscle in my lower body is sore.  lol  - I used to run 5 miles. I had back problems earlier in the year, and had some pain management, blah blah, I started taking yoga and got some relief, and was just starting to get it back together when I got the diagnosis (BC).  I have TE's and my doc wants me to take it easy, it's just hard when you are used to being fit, and now I'm a blob.  At least I know you guys are getting it back together.  I feel so much better now.  Thanks for sharing. 

Hi Liz,

I know, the whole prospect of mastectomies and the "unknown" can bring great fear and trepidation.  Like you, I am in my "fab forties" (48 to be exact).  I think the key, regardless of what shape you go into surgery in, is to work with your surgeon re: your particular cancer history, and in terms of appropriate healing times so you can safely be guided in return to normal function as possible.  For me, I didn't have TE's put in, until week #3 post op (they were waiting for my pathology, to see if I had any invasive component.)  During those three weeks where I just had the mastectomy, I did the recommended stretching exercises and by week 3 was having a pretty good range of motion.  My doctor also allowed me to ride my bike at 2 weeks post op, and I had no problem with any chest issues.  For me, the limitations came after, at week 3, I had the left prophylactically taken off, and then had temporary expanders put in on both sides.  It was quite uncomfortable, and I was limited mostly due to pain early on.  It just felt very uncomfortable to open tight lids so I would have my husband help me open jars (amazing how opening jar lids engages your pecs!).  Also, opening heavy car doors felt a bit uncomfortable for awhile -- all because of the pressure of the TE's under my pec muscles.  As things went along (after week 7-8 I began to feel MUCH better in terms of function) I was doing pretty well.  I followed instruction re: range of motion exercises.  I did not return to any weightlifting until my switch to permanent implants.....even then, my plastic surgeon had me wait the 6 weeks (the time frame for tissue healing.  the breast tissues as well as scar tissue reaches about 80% it's original strength by week 6-8; so most surgeons release you back to normal activities by then)  But for all intents and purposes, my plastic surgeon said to return to whatever I was used to, but just let pain be my guide.

I returned to weight lifting very slowly and progressed slowly.  Using as little as 5# for chest and upper body.  Just to get my muscles used to it, and gradually progressed from there.  By 6 months, I was back to my pre-cancer condition and weight lifting routine.  I'm not an extremely heavy lifter.  I typically just use dumbells for chest with incline presses at 20-25 pound dumbells maximum.  On lat pulldowns, I pull to the front toward the collarbone (I heard it is much more safer this way for the shoulder girdle).  I usually pull around 50-65 pounds. 

Dorelle (on that link) could really give you guidance after your surgery.  I've heard other BC overcomers hiring a personal trainer specializing in BC recovery to oversee their return to working out.  If you have lymph node involvement and removal, it would be wise to work with a physical therapists that are trained to work with BC women (lymphadema certified therapist a plus - for education and training on avoiding issues with that), particularly if they have had any lymph nodes removed.  Many studies have shown the benefits of guided weight lifting in preventing and reducing lymphadema.  Often, a compression sleeve is recommended as an added precaution when exercising, if a woman has had a lot of lymph nodes taken out.  Since I only had 4 sentinel nodes taken on each side (and you have about 30 lymph nodes under each armpit), my surgeon and BC nurse coordinator said I did not require a sleeve).

Are you planning on having reconstruction?  If so, what kind?  That will also determine your post op guidance on return to physical fitness.

 To answer your question about weakness.  I don't have ANY weakness due to my surgeries. 

And about the Alloderm sling - if you are planning on having implants, most plastic surgeons now do this as standard procedure.  You should ask your doc about that if you are going with implants. 

Let me know if you have a problem with the link I sent you.  I know that Dorelle had mastectomies with lymph node removal and radiation, and she is a professional lifter.

I'm sure she could really encourage you, and answer you questions.  Since she is also a personal trainer who specializes in working with women post BC surgery, I'm sure she would have a WEALTH of experience and wisdom to share with you.

In my heart, I really feel like you need to believe that you will come back strong.  Fight those negative thoughts.  Be wise and educated in your recovery period, but stay positive.  You are courageous!  You are a warrior woman!  You will overcome all those threatening voices that scare you with the "what if's" and the unknowns.  I know.  I've been there.  You will come through stronger on the other side.

God bless you RICHLY with peace and comfort and strength as you journey through this.

We are all here to support you!

xo,

Sue

Made an appointment with a physical therapist today (funny, I am a physical therapist, but I specialize in pediatrics).  I'm hoping to get some advice on how I'm doing with my strength and range of motion Ii think pretty good).  But, also how to progress my program.  I'm walking 3-5 miles a day, but that's it for now.  I'm still in the expanding process so I'm sure there will be limitations.  I'm also hoping to get some information on lymphedema prevention, and if I should be wearing any specific garments for flying.  Anyway, that is my progress in the exercise department.

I get a bit defensive when people assume my weakness post op is because I wasn't working out hard pre op.  I do still do aerobic activity and weight lift now just like I did previously and I do have strength deficits.  I went to pub med and searched pectoralis muscle and reconstruction.  Most of what is done deals with pectoralis muscle flaps, but there is a small body on breast reconstruction.  Most of them show a small but significant decrease in pectoralis muscle strength.  It has taken me a year to get even close to the level of weights I did before.  My PS didn't tell me not to flat bench press so I'm still doing it and haven't noticed any difficulties. I had expander and sentinel node.  I do have lymphedema and a lot of neuropathy from chemo so it is hard to know how much that is contributing.  Plus, with the lymphedema I am very careful to not overtrain weight lifting.  Even with that, it has been very slow progress.  Personally I'm suspicious part of it is muscle flexibility.  I have to work at stretching constantly.  But, think about it.  They take all the fascia off the muscle doing the mastectomy, they mobilize the pectoralis insertion to do the sentinel node, then, they mobilize the pec and stretch it and cut into it twice by the time they do the implant exchange.  How could there not be scar tissue that you need to work with?

I too found it frustrating pre treatment to know what would happen post treatment.  Personally I found that the physicians who worked out didn't know breast cancer, and the ones that knew breast cancer didn't work out so getting straight answers was impossilble.  One nurse told me I wasn't allowed to break a sweat after my surgery--for weeks.  Thankfully my Onc intervened on that one.  At least my Onc got that there weren't enough psych meds invented that did as much for me as yoga and a treadmill during the whole treatment experience.   So, my personal experience is that yes, mastectomies and recon can hurt your strength, but they won't keep you from weight lifting and being active.

Hey Liz,

Just to answer the two questions you put out on your last post: the first being about where I slept after TE's were put in:   After I had the temporary expanders put in, I was most comfortable sleeping on our couch.  We have a really soft couch with a puffy armrest.  It kept me upright at about a 40 degree angle, and kept alot of the pressure off of my chest.  Lying flat really bothered me.  Fortunately, I'm a back sleeper, so it was easy to continue to sleep on my back.  If I'm remembering correctly, my plastic surgeon recommended avoiding sleeping on the side for at least 3-4 weeks post TE placement, to allow for tissue healing in the pocket that was created.

I finally returned to my normal bed by week 7.  (Again tissue healing takes about 6-8 weeks, so looking back, it makes sense that I started to feel markedly improved by around then.).

 Your second question had to deal with why I had sentinel nodes taken on the left, which was a prophylatic mastectomy.  I had sentinel nodes taken because I had already had numerous biopsies on the left breast as well, though they all came back benign....my "microcalcification" clusters that were biopsied on the left breast, exactly mirrored the pattern that was cancerous on my right.  So, it was simply a precautionary measure, because if for some unforseen scenario that they missed any cancer in my breast on the left, and it showed up in my lymph nodes, they would go ahead and take out the nodes while I was under anesthesia then, vs. having to come back for another trip. 

They were being very precautious, because when my right cancerous breast was removed, they found a SECOND spot of cancer in it, that none of the tests had shown.....so they were concerned my left breast could potentially have cancer that the biopsies had missed.

sorry for the longwinded answer.  ;-)

 Stay strong ladies.

You all are awesome!

xo,

Sue

Just got back from the PS, it's been 8 weeks, still have TEs in, asked again and he said no push ups, bench pressing or flies - ever.  I can do anything else, waterski, bike ride, weights (just not the above as they could cause implants to shift). 

Hi All:

I am in the same boat as vmudrow. Had TEs put in for BMX and for 8 weeks none of the exercises she mentioned + many, many, many more restrictions, NO driving, lifting, pulling, using arms, dishwashing, anything repetitive. I am a former gym fanatic and have had to patiently wait to exercise.  Why such wide variation of what folks are told what they can/cannot do?

Hoping to bump this up.  (hoping lizzymack is still posting) if you read above we had discussed the question of flat bench pressing after implants because some PS warned against it, but, no one seemed to give a good reason why.  Well, I tried it, resounding not good idea. Did fine until I got up to about 80 lbs (far less then I was pre BC, so its not like my chest hadn't trained harder before).   About that same time I ended up doing a lot of pushing/pulling/lifting/upper body things at work where it was impossible to control position and muscle use.  I really ended up screwing up my pecs.  Have been in PT for the last several weeks and not been able to use them at all for lifting.  Still not back to normal, but, the pain is less.  Funny thing though.  I had never had the implant drop and "fluff" after the exchange. My PS was even discussing more surgery which I deferred.  I was happy enough and didn't want to go through another forced recuperation nonactive period.  Well, the stupid thing seems to be dropping and fluffing.  Looks better now then anytime in the last almost year and a half. 

So, I'm interested in hearing if anyone else has had any problems.  I'm not sure I can blame it on the lifting, like I said, I used to lift much more and the weightlifting was more controlled then the other physical activity, but, pec work is sure off the table for awhile.  Anyone have anything similar, or, anyone doing flat bench pressing without problems?

Thanks Diane.  I could deal with the strange feelings and implant distortion, the pain and inability to exercise I don't want to go through again

Hi kmmd,

 I had bilateral mastectomies at the end of March 2010 and then had silicone implants placed below the pec muscles in July 2010.  I have alloderm supporting the inferior part of the implants (Mentor moderate plus profile cohesive silicone gel 400cc implants)  Not gummy bears.

I am a former bodybuilder and started back to the gym in October.  I have torn rotator cuffs so I have been doing physical therapy for that, but have also been working my pecs.  I have been doing incline flies and bench with only 2/3 of my normal weight for flies and a much less for my incline benches (I am using dumbells instead of a bar because I feel more in control with the dumbells).  When I do these exercises my implants distort quite a bit and they become more lateral.  I am afraid that if I lift too much weight or try flat benches, etc I will push an implant out of my lateral pec area.  I know it is possible to dislocate an implant in this way because I spoke with a woman who took up bodybuilding after mastectomy and she did end up needing surgery to put the implant back where it belonged.  So...out of fear I am going very slowly. 

 I have not tried push-ups because even the hint of that motion makes the implants distort greatly and they feel extremely vulnerable to dislocation.  I have also not tried dips.  Lat pulldowns with a moderate amount of weight also cause the same distortion. 

The good news is that my "iron bra syndrome" sensation has gone away completely now that I am lifting and stretching at the gym.  It came back only when I was on vacation and unable to lift, so I know it's the lifting that is making the difference. 

Overall, my pecs and implants feel better now that I am lifting.  The implants feel less prone to distortion with simple, everyday activities now, and my mood in general is much better.  I think slow and steady is the key (although I brought in a bundle of firewood the other day that had to have weighed at least 50 pounds.  I couldn't help myself -- I am so used to doing that). 

Anyway, no ill effects from the firewood or the lifting.  And I am getting used to the feeling of the implants distorting so it does not bother me as much as it did in the beginning.  I am wearing very tight sports bras, though, in an effort to keep the implants from being pushed too laterally.  If I were going to increase my weights or try dips/push-ups, I would probably wear an ace wrap to ensure that the implants would not dislocate.  Especially at first, until I knew what my limits were.

I hope this helps.  Let's keep in touch as we get back to bodybuilding.

Gran

anyone used an incline pulldown bench lide the "total gym"?

My bilateral Mastectomies were in '08.  I have the alloderm sling as well that I understand helps to hold them in place.

I have been told to avoid FLAT bench presses... but I do INCLINE presses using dumbells.  I don't usually go higher than 20-25 pound dumbells, because I do not feel the need to press the issue (no pun intended. ha!) 

I have been pleased with being able to do pushups and lat pulldowns without problems.  I am choosing to avoid tricep dips..just because, for me, I feel it would place to much strain on my pecs and shoulder girdle, due to the abnormal way the pec has to lie over the implants.

 I pull around 65# on the lat pulldowns without any issue.  On chest presses, they temporarily compress and may look funky, but go back to normal afterwards. 

I've been very grateful that I do not feel any limitations due to the surgery.  I'm not into serious bodybuilding, but like a firm, muscular, athletic body.... and I have been able to achieve that, thankfully!

 Best wishes to all of you lovely ladies....and HAPPY and HEALTHY NEW YEAR!

:-)

Sue 

Mel22-You have to be careful about what type of exercises you do when you have implants. Some pec exercises can push them to the sides causing lateral displacement. It sounds like you may have the that. The jumpy part you are talking about could be the movement of your pec muscles. Since the implant is under them and we have no breast tissue this will show up as a distortion when you flex those muscles. It's very normal after a MX although odd looking. If  Youd don't agree with your PS  I would seek out a second opinion to be sure.  I would wear a supportive sports bra when sleeping as well to hold them in laterally. My implants fall to the side when lying down and I have worn a bra when sleeping since I got them. I am going for a revision due to severe rippling and my PS is also going to put stitches laterally to hold them more in place. The thing is to really keep them supported. Also I would specifically ask you PS about what exercises you can and can't do. Unfortunately I have steered away from most exercises the engage my pec muscles. I think you can still do many types of exercises and work outs you just have to be extra careful with implants or they could displace. Get a second opinion if something doesn't feel right. It's always better to at least have peace of mind about what is normal and what is not. Wish you the best. Keep us posted.