The Difference Between 1-3 and 4-10 Lymph Node Involvement

the only way i think about my 10 positive nodes is that 'thank goodness" they did their job and my cancer didn't spread anywhere else.

 i think they look as number of nodes as an indication of aggressiveness and speed of the cancer. my initial tumor was very small..(IDC)..1.8 cm...but the nodes were fully encased with cancer. all i know is that i got great treatment..."full monty"  and 8 years later i am doing great. cancer is pretty unpredictable...very sneaky disease....i think the stage...number of pos nodes..pretty much dictates your treatment.  the diagnosis is so important for what kind of chemo...rads...etc. 

the number of nodes is just a tiny part...there is the pathology of cancer cells...growth factors..size of tumor...my oncologist isn't so impressed with number of nodes as she is with the "big picture"

 maybe get another opinion if what your onc said causes so much concern. see what other people have to say about this.

hang in there***

Dear Alice100,

I also have a similar lymph node situation.  I had 25 removed during axillary dissection and 5 were cancerous.  However, the "good news" was that there was  no angiolymphatic invasion {no spread to lymph vessels}, and, no extranodal extension of carcinoma was identified {no spread to the surrounding tissue }. I had to look all this terminology up before meeting with my oncologist, and he clarified that all of the above was a good thing and that the cancer was still confined strictly to the nodes {cancer catchers }.  I agree with all of the above posts as well.  All of our diagnoses are completely different, and seeking a second opinion will give you peace of mind.  This is one crazy journey and it took me a long time to learn how to navigate through all the doctors, surgeons, etc.

I've just had my 9th {out of 35 } radiation treatments and it's going very well.   

Stay well !

Georgia Joyner

There are many women who have 1cm - 2cm tumours & 0 nodes involved but have mets in other parts of their bodies.. then there are women who have 4cm+ tumours with say 10 nodes involved but have no mets to the rest of their bodies. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to this cancer that we are all fighting. Personally I don't think any doctor can predict how any of our outcomes will be. 

In a way I am glad that I had node involvement & am now getting the "big gun" treatment.

He's a doofus.

You might like to read this...

http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/25a522.htm 

40%?? I don't think so. 

Alice -

I think your doctor was extremely callous making that statement and I am truly surprised at him for doing so.  Don't let it get you down.  I was diagnosed Stage 1 Grade three, triple negative, NO nodes and used ALL the big guns I could - heavy duty chemo for six months and 33 rads.  If the truth be told, and I don't want to bring anyone down with this, but we all know of gals with my diagnose that went on to Stage IV and some have even died - all in much too short a period of time.  In other words - each of us just has to pray we are one of the lucky ones that can survive this.  It doesn't appear to matter much whether you have clean nodes or diseased nodes.  If it's going to get us it will - I hate this freaking disease as I know I will never live another day of my life, be it for many years to come or just a short while, without the fear breast cancer comes with.  God bless and look to the sun -

Hugs,

Linda

I have to disagree with LRM216. (sorry don't get mad at me:) Yes, stage 1 girls have fone on to stage 4 but this VERY RARELY happens-for some reason there are some women who the cancer spreads from the get go and doesn't hit the nodes. We have to remember we are on a board with women from ALL OVER the world. We are going to hear the worst case scenarios. We are going to hear the cases that if we weren't on bc'org we might never ever hear.

Kim I was told the same thing-simply by removing the breast and a full node dissection you improved your chances of beating this by 37%. Then chemo at 55% ( 3rd generation) then hormonals, then rads after a masectomy, then zometa, then aspirin, then exercise, then having your ovarys out.  Also, we live in a time where we now have a test to see if tamoxofin works for us, and we have the 5 year AILS which are showing to be better then tamoxfin.  Funny for the longest time I thought my 10 year survival rate was 72%. Meaning I had a 28% chance I would be alive. I found out recently I had it wrong-it was the other was around 72% chance I would be here and that figure didn't include zometa, having your ovarys out and radiation after a masectomy.

Another thing to look at is this....

cancermath.net. 

You might be surprised.....

With Cancermath, you can go into Breast Cancer Tools, and select therapy - so it will give you the outcome based on no treatment, then the difference Chemo and Hormonals make.

Alice, based on your stats, with treatment, it gives you an 80% chance of survival in 15 years....

Hi, Alice,

I don't visit here often anymore, but I happened upon your post today. You are almost exactly where I was two years ago, and our diagnoses are very similar except I had more positive nodes.

Last month, I had my two-year followup with my onc, whom I would describe as a "realistic optimist." I brought up the recurrence during first 2-3 years issue. She said, "I really don't think you need to worry about having a recurrence. I would be surprised, no, I would be shocked if you had a recurrence." That's verbatim. And she's been an oncologist for more than 15 years and has, I'm sure, seen her share of stage 3 bcs.

I don't know what your treatment plan consists of, but I had bilateral mx, TACx6 over a four-month period, 30 rads, tamoxifen, zometa x 4, and an oophorectomy. I take 4,000 i.u.s of vitamin D-3 a day and exercise 3-5 hours per week. Everything you add to the mix ups your survival rate. I rarely think about dying anymore (well, only when I'm driving on Interstate 15 with a multitute of maniacs buzzing around me!). Take care, and I hope your chemo goes smoothly.

I am a 4 node gal and I swear I think I had the same oncologist.  I firmly believe the statements he made at the beginning of this journey have been the most difficult to overcome emotionally.  It makes me so angry he felt it necessary to continue to poke holes in my bucket no matter what.  Later I tried to excuse his statements by assuming he made them to convince me to persue chemo (as if I hadn't already told him to throw the book at it).  He was the king schmuck in this process.  Statistics don't suddenly change based upon one factor (90% at 3 to 40% at 4)  there would have to be a gradual increase in the stats.  That being said my chemo nurse stated that once the cancer had been taken out we were all back to cancer free regardless of original stage.  I loved that comment and will hang on to it for the next 20 years (which I do plan to be around for)

Sometimes I just have to wonder if some oncologists are just that cold and unfeeling or really unaware of the callousness of their statements.  I switched oncologists and love mine now!  This is someone you will be dealing with for a long time (yes a long time) so find one with a positive outlook. 

I have never asked or checked my prognosos or stats. I know I've done all I can with treatment. I had a 3 monthly onc visit earlier this week and all is fine. One thing he said is the next thing is to get me to the point when I'm not thinking about cancer every day. Coming up on one year from diagnosis I am not there yet. But it's not the ONLY thing I think about now. But I was so pleased my onc was so in tune with how I feel.

I am so glad to find this thread. I have used the Cancermath site and I realized that it didn't take herceptin into consideration. But it didn't occur to me that it didn't take surgery and rads into consideration when it spits out it's stats.

I had 9 axillary and 1 subpectoral node and my onc is still saying he is shooting for cure (I know that "cure" is a iffy word but I like his optimism)

Well cancermath gave me an outcome 0.01 years EXTRA compared with those with no cancer!!!

Wow - should I be glad at my dx?

Sam

I like this thread!

Me too, I was so ticked off by having 4 nodes rather than 3. But of course it does not make much difference. (Weesa, great post!)

Yes, thank you for the article link, KerryMac.  I just read it and loved to see the 70% number - which was the number my oncologist had given me after my mastectomy.  I had a large tumor (10-12 cm) which went away with neo-adjuvant chemo, but still had 11/13 nodes showing some scattered cells at my mastectomy.  Still, with all the treatment I got, Herceptin, radiation after mastectomy, and now I'm considering an ooph and Zometa as well, my oncologist gave me 70%.  

So, ladies, let's cheer each other on the way - we can do this and will do this!!!! We all have a lot to live for.