ALH is NOT cancer, right?
Comments
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New here, and am confused! I had excisional biopsy for microcalcs and was told results are benign. However, they found atypical lobular hyperplasia. So, that's benign, right? I went for post-op appointment with surgeon and she said I should consult with oncologist to discuss going on tamoxifen. But this is benign finding, right? She said I'm at higher risk for breast cancer. 4% more than average in 5 years time and 25% more than average in lifetime. What do these percentages mean? What is the average percent chance to get breast cancer?
I'm going to have a diagnostic mammo of the affected breast and and MRI of both in 6 months. Why can't I just wait for that and skip the oncologist?
I'm 48, on Loestrin24FE birth control pills for endometriosis (was not told to go off it). I've gone through 8 in-vitro cycles (have 2 kids, first one at age 34), no family history.
So, is ALH something significant or can I just put it out of my head since it's benign? I just don't understand. Appreciate your help and guidance!!
Keiko
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You're right ALH is not cancer. Your doc wants you to see the onc and, if he/she recommends it, take tamoxifen as a preventive as your risk for breast ca is increased. Primary care physicians can handle tamox too so don't freak because of the onc part. It is kinda weird sitting in the onc office with people who have invasive breast ca and other ca's like pancreatic, lung etc. I did it briefly for DCIS. But just because you're there doesn't mean you have ca.
The onc might discuss the bc pills and the endometriosis risk and the risks if you're on tamox for bc prevention and help you with something there too. Go, get the onc's take on what you should do.
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Ginger is right - ALH is not cancer. It just puts you at somewhat higher risk for breast cancer than the average woman.
About what your numbers mean: I bet you (or your doc) put your numbers into the modified Gail model as seen at http://www.cancer.gov/bcrisktool/
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The next part of this post describes how little we know about breast cancer prediction.
There is a medical journal editorial here (from 2006) that gives you some clue as to how well the Gail model works for predicting YOUR individual risk of breast cancer. http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/98/23/1673.pdf
It shows that the Gail model (and an Italian model) worked quite well to predict how many women in a population (of Florence, Italy) got breast cancer. The models predicted that 180 or 184 women would get breast cancer, and they observed 194. Very good. They know how many oncologists they need for breast cancer.
But there is another way, also, that cancer prediction models are assessed. They take one randomly selected person from the group with breast cancer and compare her to one randomly selected person from the group withOUT breast cancer. So you have 'pairs' of women, and you compare the scores they got from the model.
If the model worked perfectly, then in each pair of women, the woman with breast cancer would get a higher score than the woman withOUT breast cancer, and the concordance statistic would be 1. If the model didn't work at all - half the time the person with breast cancer got a higher score than the person withOUT breast cancer, but half the time the person with breast cancer got a LOWER score than the person withOUT breast cancer, the concordance statistic would be 0.5. If the model had a concordance statistic of 0, then it would be an excellent model, because it would still predict the outcomes perfectly. For the Gail and Italian models, the score was about 0.59. This means that for 59% of the pairs, the woman with breast cancer got a higher score, but in 41% of the pairs, the woman with breast cancer got a LOWER score than the woman withOUT breast cancer. They described the models as "Thus, for any given woman, the two models were better at prediction than a coin toss—but not by much."
Yes, you are at higher risk than the average person to get breast cancer. You shouldn't miss any screening. That doesn't mean you are at high risk. For example, the ACS puts ALH in the category of 'moderate risk'. http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_6X_Non_Cancerous_Breast_Conditions_59.asp
Before you get too afraid of numbers you see thrown around, you may see numbers like 'ALH carries a 4-5 x normal chance of breast cancer.' (A relative risk of 4-5.) That is 4-5 x the risk of a woman WITHOUT ANY PARTICULAR RISK FACTORS (besides being a woman).
So the 4-5 x is NOT NOT NOT 4-5x 12% the risk of the average woman = some 50-60%.
It is 4-5x the risk of a woman without any particular risk factors which is something like 3-5%. So 4-5 x 3-5 = about 15-25% lifetime risk of breast cancer.
That's using our Gail model predictors - which are accurate for a particular woman about 60% of the time. If you had a severe family history of breast/ovarian cancer, then they might be able to predict more accurately because you'd be more likely to have a known BRCA mutation. Women with a known deleterious BRCA mutation have about a 55-90% lifetime chance of having breast cancer. There are probably breast cancer genes out there that have not been identified. But since you have no family history, that's probably not very relevant.
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One thing you may consider doing, if you have not already had this done, is consider if you want to excise the area. There is some controversy in that decision. For example http://www.pathologyoutlines.com/topic/breastalh.html
I agree with Ginger - its good to get the onc's take on what you should do. You have a more complex situation since you've been told to continue to take estrogenic hormones for your endometriosis.
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Wow, thank you Leaf and Ginger for all this information! I did have an excisional biopsy -- i went straight for the excisional rather than start with stereotactic core needle -- I didn't want to go through 2 biopsies. My decision turned out to be the right one.
I spoke with my GYN and he said I should stop the bcp now. I'll have to endure the pain of endometriosis again (horrible!). I didn't ask him if I decide NOT to take the tamoxifen, could I stay on the bcp. It's Loestrin24, which has very low dose of estrogen. But I suspect estrogen is the bad guy now.
I made the appointment with the onc and I guess I could ask her. Anything else an ALH person should ask in particular?
Thanks so much for your help -- what a great website and forum!
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Keiko, Do you have any family history of BC/OVCA? ALH is considered a pre-cancerous lesion by most within the oncology community and a bit more "active" than ADH. Combined with a family history, your risk may be over 25%. Be vigilant and consult with an onc. as recommended! Best wishes. Glad you have f/u imaging in 6 months too, as this is considered standard of care following a biopsy.
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Hi Keiko! Yes, do ask your onc if you should continue to take the bcp. Note that tamoxifen has different effects on the breast than on the uterus. Initially, tamoxifen acts like an anti-estrogen on the breast, but acts like an estrogen on the uterus. http://jjco.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/27/5/350.pdf When people take tamoxifen chronically until it becomes ineffective, for example in the setting of metastatic breast cancer (not what you have, of course), *sometimes* after a while tamoxifen can start to act as an estrogen on the breast. So it is possible for it to 'switch'.
You have a more complex case, though, so I would check with your doc about your bcp use. I had endometritis (maybe a milder case though) and dysfunctional bleeding. I stopped about a year before my LCIS diagnosis because the bcp wasn't working. I've been taking tamoxifen the last 4 years.
Some places have tried tamoxifen + (estrogen +/- progesterone) in treatment protocols (for established cancer, not for prophylactic use like you are doing) such as this study. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19139988 I don't know of any studies doing this for*prophylaxis* only (i.e. for ALH/ADH/LCIS and nothing worse.)
Ask your doc about your risk of bc - whether he/she sees a red flag we don't see. You will get estimates again. (I have classic LCIS, ALH, AH, radial scar, and nothing worse, with a weak family history.) I have gotten estimates from "somewhere between 10 and 60% but probably closer to 10%" to 'about 30%' to 'about 40%', to (from a breast cancer calculator that has NOT been compared to populations, without tamoxifen 85%. This latter figure, 85%, is undoubtedly wrong. That's why its important to check the predictions with the specific population that has your conditions.)
Note: your pattern of screening may change over time. I started out with checks every 4 months, and now I'm down to clinical exams every 6 months and yearly mammos. Your screening pattern may depend on your doc or local practice - places do differ.
Its good to try to write down all your questions so you won't forget - you'll probably be pretty nervous. Some people take along a friend/relative/significant other to be another pair of 'ears' in case the doc says something that you don't catch. Some people ask if they can record the session. If you do this, make sure you ask your doc first, and practice with the recorder beforehand. (Guess how I know?)
Let us know how it goes, OK?
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The A in ALH state for atypical meaning unusual or irregular. Your biopsy has indicated that you have irregularly shaped cells which is of concern. Thankfully the ALH is not cancer. The irregular cells can remain the same as they are now or they could evolve into something more. That is the reason for your close follow care. I happily see my BS and my onc at 6 month intervals as I want to do everything possible nip any new cancer in the bud.
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Lisamg, is it really true that ALH is more active then the ADH. My pathology report said ADH as well as ALH but my surgeon only seemed to concentrate on the ADH. At least that is what he said was taken out at excisional biopsy because he said it was severe. I guess I just had a little atypical cells in the lobes as compared to how many I had in the ducts? Does it mean that even the less amount of ALH is more likely to turn into something worse(DLIS or invasive) then the ADH or do the cells of ALH have more inclination to turn to cancer cells more? Hope I'm making sense.
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pattimay--everything I've ever read says that ALH and ADH are both precancerous conditions with similar risk levels (about 20 to 25%); one is not more serious than the other. When your doctor said your ADH was "severe", perhaps he is considering it to be borderline DCIS? If that's the case (and you should ask him specifically), then it would be more serious than just ALH.
Anne
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I agree with Anne. Sometimes it can be hard to tell the difference between ADH and DCIS, and, of course they are treated differently. Perhaps 'severe' meant 'extensive', which doesn't necessarily mean there was a wider area of it - that can mean 'extensive' on a microscopic scale - i.e. most of the ducts or lobules *in the field of view of the microscope* had the condition. They sometimes use the descriptive 'severe' or 'extensive' when most of the ducts or lobules they see on the slide have a certain condition, but the tissue they look at on the slide may be very,very small (i.e. microscopic) and/or have few ducts or lobules in that tissue sample.
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I had microcalcifications in January - biopsied - ALH. Oncologist wanted me to take tamoxifen. I know a few people on it for bc and they HATE the side effects. Having had several previous biopsies and scares, along with family history (40% risk of getting bc, several family member have had it - mother, aunt, grandmother and cousin), I am having skin sparing masectomies tomorrow - just want to get rid of it all before it becomes cancer. Surgeon agrees with my decision because I am a worrier. This way I won't have the side effects of tamoxifen - I am 49.
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Your information is the same that I got when I was diagnosed and my path report explained to me. I did have dcis, her2+ ER+ PR- was my path and neg, on brca, phew. Don't stop asking questions til you are answered and remember you are hiring their brilliance, they work for you and you can fire them too, create a team you feel good about in everyway and read up, talk here, go to the chat room, you need java. There is a ton of support here and there.
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I had Atypical Ductal Hyperplasia twice. Both times I had surgery and no follow up, no medication. So now I have IDC. There is a good chance that it could have been avoided by going on Tamoxifen. It wasn]t offered. There was no follow up of any kind. Ask for it. Don't just let it go as I did.
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