how many told to wait for PBM?

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mabear
mabear Member Posts: 25

Met with a breast surgeon today who was very big into the statistics of the matter.  Even with an old dx of sclerosing adenosis and recent dx of ADH and LCIS along with a few other things to make my breasts 'busy' she was not on board with my choice of PBM.  She said she would do it, but wants me to wait 6 months in the hopes I change my mind.

Wondering how many of you have had responses like this when seeking PBM?  Also, how many have had or are having problems with insurance coverage?  I was talking about this to my husband and I can't believe I would be the only one who's decision/thought process is so heavily questioned-although I would not wish this on anyone.

Thanks for any input.

Comments

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2010

    mabear----I can't answer your questions, since I haven't  gone that route of PBMs, but perhaps the doctor just wants you to really take your time making this decision, since you were just diagnosed 2 weeks ago and there is no rush with LCIS since it is non-invasive.

    I was diagnosed over 6.5 years ago with LCIS and I also have family history of ILC (mom), so my risk is even further increased; even so, all my docs felt PBMs too drastic for the situation. I took tamoxifen for 5 years, now I take Evista, and continue with high risk surveillance of alternating MRIs and mammos every 6 months--I just had my MRI 2 weeks ago and it was completely clear. So while risk is significantly increased with LCIS, it doesn't automatically mean that you will be facing repeated biopsies over time (I've never had to have another one since my first that found the LCIS) . If you 've already made your decision and are at peace with it, then you should find a doctor and proceed with the PBMs despite what this doctor says; just be sure that you make your decisions out of knowledge and not fear.

    Anne

  • Hattie
    Hattie Member Posts: 414
    edited April 2010

    I thought when I had an actual diagnosis of breast cancer, that I would go for a mast, or two.  I did take some time and get multiple medical opinions, and decided for me that keeping the healthy part of the breast was the right move.

    5 years later, it was still the right thing for me.  My breasts are not a major part of my identity, but they are important to intimacy and self image, for me.   I did have pathology that showed LCIS and ILC, but the watch and wait on the rest is ok with me.

    Having the masts did not give me the guarantee i wanted, so my choice worked for me.

    Get the facts, take some time (you do have the luxury of time, really) and make the right decision for you.   You don't have cancer, you just have funky cells at this point  that may or may not get dangerous, but are not now.  Unfortunately, there is no certainty in this or most other things in life.

    take some more time, and get more info, and make an informed decision.  when you come to it, you will probably feel some measure of peace with your choice.  no matter what others tell you, you are the one who counts.

    take care,

    --hattie 

  • Mantra
    Mantra Member Posts: 968
    edited April 2010

    My surgeon wanted me to wait 6 months before making a decision on whether to have a prophylactic mastectomy. She said that she didn't want me to make the decision when my emotions and fear were in such a heightened state.

    It's now been 6 months and I am going ahead with the surgery on April 16th. I think you should take all the time you need. Personally, if I was still in vacillating mode, I would not proceed.

    It's a big decision; one that cannot be reversed. You have the time on your side so don't rush into anything.

  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited April 2010

    I agree with all of the above. I have classic LCIS, ALH, sclerosing adenoma, etc. and my breast surgeon essentially refused to consider BPM. (Of course I can't stand her, for other reasons in addition to lack of choice.)

    In this 2004 Cochrane study about prophylactic mastectomy,

    Twenty-three studies, including more than 4,000 patients, met inclusion criteria. No randomized or nonrandomized controlled trials were found. Most studies were either case series or cohort studies. All studies had methodological limitations, with the most common source of potential bias being systematic differences between the intervention and comparison groups that could potentially be associated with a particular outcome...While published observational studies demonstrated that BPM was effective in reducing both the incidence of, and death from, breast cancer, more rigorous prospective studies (ideally randomized trials) are needed. The studies need to be of sufficient duration and make better attempts to control for selection biases to arrive at better estimates of risk reduction. The state of the science is far from exact in predicting who will get or who will die from breast cancer. By one estimate, most of the women deemed high risk by family history (but not necessarily BRCA 1 or 2 mutation carriers) who underwent these procedures would not have died from breast cancer, even without prophylactic surgery. Therefore, women need to understand that this procedure should be considered only among those at very high risk of the disease. For women who had already been diagnosed with a primary tumor, the data were particularly lacking for indications for contralateral prophylactic mastectomy. While it appeared that contralateral mastectomy may reduce the incidence of cancer in the contralateral breast, there was insufficient evidence about whether, and for whom, CPM actually improved survival. Physical morbidity is not uncommon following PM, and many women underwent unanticipated re-operations (usually due to problems with reconstruction); however, these data need to be updated to reflect changes in surgical procedures and reconstruction. Regarding psychosocial outcomes, women generally reported satisfaction with their decisions to have PM but reported satisfaction less consistently for cosmetic outcomes, with diminished satisfaction often due to surgical complications. Therefore, physical morbidity and post-operative surgical complications were areas that should be considered when deciding about PM. With regard to emotional well-being, most women recovered well postoperatively, reporting reduced cancer worry and showing reduced psychological morbidity from their baseline measures; exceptions also have been noted. Of the psychosocial outcomes measured, body image and feelings of femininity were the most adversely affected.  <emphasis mine> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15495033

    Just to give you an idea about the state of art of breast cancer prediction,

    This paper looked at the Gail model http://www.cancer.gov/bcrisktool/ (one of the most used breast  cancer risk calculators, and compared it to another model,the Italian model, that had more risk factors such as breast density.) They took one randomly selected woman with breast cancer, and compared her score to a randomly selected woman without breast cancer.

     In other words, for 59% of the randomly selected pairs of women, the risk estimated for the woman who was diagnosed with breast cancer was higher than the risk estimated for the woman who was not. Unfortunately, for 41% of the pairs of women, the woman with breast cancer received a lower risk estimate than her cancer-free counterpart.Thus, for any given woman, the two models were better at prediction than a coin toss—but not by much.  (emphasis mine)  http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/98/23/1673.pdf

  • lvtwoqlt
    lvtwoqlt Member Posts: 6,162
    edited April 2010

    After my 2nd dx of ADH (once in each breast) and with a family history of BC and ovarian cancer, my surgeon suggested I consider PBM. He said that I had time to think about it, review my options, he knew I researched BC for my mom when she was dx BC in 2001, discuss it with my hubby, and let him know at my next appointment 6 months later. It is a big decision, It changes your physical appearance, affects you psychological and emotionally. Leaf posted a good study that talks about all the aspects of PBM. Unfortunately my next mammo was once again abnormal and biopsy showed DCIS so that pretty much helped me make my decision.

    Good luck in making this life changing decision.

    Sheila

  • Del11
    Del11 Member Posts: 944
    edited April 2010

    There was a study published recently about how doctors asking women who want PBM to wait 12 months to make the decision reduced the number of women who went through with it. I'm guessing your doctor read that study.  I'll see if I can dig up a link for you.

    P.S. Here's the article:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100325102400.htm

  • mikita5
    mikita5 Member Posts: 373
    edited April 2010

    mabear: I had DCIS in 2009. BRCA tests came back negative. Mother died of ovarian cancer. Many, many  cousins with BC. I went ahead with the bilateral mx. Pathology results came back with 2 more spots in cancerous breast that had had a lumpectomy, so, for the affected breast, I'm truly grateful that I had it removed after my lumpectomy.  As for the healthy one, pathology came back clean. Am I sorry I had it removed? Not at all. Something in my body triggered those cancer cells and I feel if it triggered it once, it will trigger it again. I'm glad I had the prop. mx. With the reconstructions today, thankfully, we can still wake up from surgery with breasts. I had DIEP reconstruction and just finished having my reconstructed nipple this week. Only one more procedure for the tattooing and I hope to be finished with the whole ordeal. I do know I can still get bc with the breast gone, but the percentage is small. I pray daily to God that the cancer doesn't come back, but for now, I know I did all I could to nip it in the bud early. Had I not went thru with it, I would worry constantly about it still being in there and tests not showing it until it was invasive.

    Good luck with your decision. It's a hard one to make, but like everyone says, take your time. When you've made your decision, you'll know if it's the right one or not.. If you go with prop. mx, don't look back. It's over and done and you can't change  your mind.  Go slowly,. We're all different and our

    Hugs!!

  • mabear
    mabear Member Posts: 25
    edited April 2010

    Thank you all for your posts!  It's helpful to see the thought processes from others.  Jeskachi: yes, this would explain a few things...  I'm sure this journey will take some time, but I am looking forward to my future of knowing I did what I felt was best for ME despite the many varied opinions of medical professionals.

  • fairportlady55
    fairportlady55 Member Posts: 181
    edited April 2010

    Hi mabear

    I consulted with a PS about 6 years ago about prophy bmx after having ovaries removed on the recommendation of oncologist because of family hx ovarian ca . My Mom had both breast and ovarian, one GM had breast, the other ovarian, other aunts also with either. never went for BRCA testing though. He told me then that it was a lot to go through and that if I wasn't worrying every day (such that it was effecting the quality of my life) to take my time and think. At the time, when I learned I would lose sensation in my breasts I felt it wasn't worth it. I did decide then though that if the day ever came when I had an abnormal biopsy I would proceed. My breast tissue was very dense which did effect screening (repeat mammos needed, frequent call backs, ultrasounds, MRI , fine needle biopsy). Then last fall I had both ADH and ALH.  I had proph bmx 1/11/10 with reconstruction and implants placed 3/26. For me it was a great relief to do it, and looking back I do think if I had proceeded a long time ago it may not have been worth it then , but for me once the abnormal cells appeared I was relieved to have the option. I could have opted for tamoxifen instead and considered it . I did a lot of research, read the studies mentioned here, as well. If I hadn't done it, would i have died one day from breast cancer? No way to know. As has been said here , once you make a decision you look forward and not back, no second guessing. I do know that the quality of the life I do have now has improved because I am no longer going every 6 months for screening with all the emotional ups and downs that went along with it. I used to worry all the time. Now i dont. You have time :)

  • geysermom
    geysermom Member Posts: 133
    edited April 2010

    I had PBM 4/2009 without a cancer diagnosis.  If I had waited 6 mo, my decision would have been exactly the same. 

    I don't think any amount of time would have changed my mind.  However, in my case I had already endured many years of mammos, biopsies, and lumpectomies by that time.

    Julie

  • mabear
    mabear Member Posts: 25
    edited April 2010

    Julie, I feel I understand what you've written.  My 1st sclerosing adenosis dx came from a lumpectomy 7 1/2 years ago-a couple months after my child was born.  Thoughts of what I would do 'if' are not just from this March.  I'm realizing everyone has a different tolerance level...and whatever that is is ok for that person :-) 

     fairportlady55, I look forward to the day when my worries will be calmed :-)

     My husband just found 2 more lumps last night-one on either breast.  They feel more like cysts but I will be seeing my family Dr. this week for evaluation.   I don't know if there is an emoticon I can type to convey how I feel!!  8-}  Keeping my chin up though.

     mabear

  • Kimber
    Kimber Member Posts: 384
    edited April 2010

    I was diagnosed with LCIS in Jan of '08.  Since then I endured several more biopsies, took tamoxifen (I did very well with it) and the constant stress of being monitored so closely.  My yearly MRI was always in Nov, and always required a biopsy of some sort, which resulted in major stress for my whole family.  My mother died of BC and colon cancer, my sister is a survivor, diagnosed at 46, and my aunt also had it.  I was at a very high risk for an invasive bc sometime in my life.  On Jan. 19, 2010 I had bilateral masts, and am currently undergoing recon.  I decided to make the decision before cancer made it for me.  My breast surgeon initially thought PBM was too "drastic".  I got several opinions and went back to him and told him I wanted  to do it, he listened to all my reasons and then said "I support you 100%" and went on to give me all the reasons why it was a good idea.  No one can make the decision for you and it is not the dr's job to talk you into it or out of it.  I did this on MY own time, rather than possibly getting a diagnosis, and then having to rush into surgery and possibly chemo and radiation.  The surgery is very doable, but it is taxing.  The emotional freedom is well worth it.  I went into surgery hoping to wake up directly with implants, but had to go the expander route.  I developed an infection after 9 days and had to have emergency surgery,with  expander removal, but they were able to place another.  I look the same in clothes.  Even with all I went thru, I have never, not for one second, regretted my decision.  I can hardly wrap my head around the fact that I went from being so closely watched to hardly any monitoring.  I'm off tamoxifen, I'll never need a mammogram again.  My dr may order MRIs, but for once no more poking, compressing, prodding, wire placement, etc.  I spent one day of surgery in a mammogram machine for 3 hours while they tried to locate a clip that was close to my chest wall.  3 hours of constant compression!  60 x rays!  It was brutal. So you can see why my decision was easy.  It was on my mind for 2 years, but when I tipped over the edge and said enough is enough, I knew I would never go back.  Some women can handle the monitoring and I did for a while, but when I made the decision, it was like my house literally took a huge sigh of relief and every one of us inside calmed down.  I literally felt like I was floating and I was light as a feather.

    Only you can make this decision.  My best to you, and if anyone has any questions, please PM me, I am more than happy to talk about my journey.

  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited April 2010

    I'm so glad that things have turned out well for you, Kimber.  Smile

    "I'll never need a mammogram again."

    I just wanted to warn you  about the terrible situation  one of our members got into AFTER she had bilateral mastectomies.  http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/64/topic/750565?page=1#post_1781011

    What do you do about policies like that?

  • Kimber
    Kimber Member Posts: 384
    edited April 2010

    Hmmm, I don't know leaf.  I have been told by all my doctors, including my breast surgeon and my oncologist that mammos were no longer necessary, but I may want to have an MRI yearly or bi-yearly.  After being exposed to radiation so much that day of my wire placement, I refused my next mammo and there was no problem.  My surgeon agreed that LCIS wouldn't show up anyway, and an MRI was best for me.  I do know that after my mother had her mast,(no recon)  she still had mammos, even on the mastectomy side.  I think there is a different thinking these days?  I don't know...I'm not really sure what policy this poster was following.

    Good to hear from you!  How are YOU doing??? 

  • LISAMG
    LISAMG Member Posts: 639
    edited April 2010

    I am with you on this one, Kimber. Mammograms post mastectomy is not considered standard of care, especially with implants. A sonogram and/or MRI are appropriate for detecting abnormalities and to determine rupture of implants. Self breast exams are the best surveillance method post surgery. Where is there any data/research to support the use of mammos post mastectomy? Inquiring mind here wants to know...LOL.

  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited April 2010

    Sorry Kimber and LISAMG - I guess I didn't communicate clearly enough that I am outraged that a person who had bilateral mastectomies withOUT implants or tissue reconstruction would be required to have mammos.  I was trying to mock those that made these requirements without thought.  I also didn't think to examine the issue of WHETHER people with implants or tissue reconstruction need screening. My bad.

    I was simply shocked that anyone with bilateral mastectomies without implants or tissue reconstruction would be ASKED, let alone required, to have mammos.

    I have not researched, nor do I know any information about, screening policies (if any) for those with  implants or tissue reconstruction. 

    I apologize for any upset or concern I may have caused due to my statements.

  • Kimber
    Kimber Member Posts: 384
    edited April 2010
    Don't be silly, leaf, no upset or concern here!  I have been told no more mammograms, and believe me, I won't be having any.  My breast surgeon assured me that my risk went from 92% down to 2% and that is good enough for me to live with without constant monitoring.  I'm shocked too that anyone would be required to have mammos after mast without recon, and had I been better informed back when my mom went through it, I wouldn't have let her have one.  We ladies need to be in charge of our own bodies and our own care.  That is why I made this decision.  To me my breasts were just tissue.  I compare it to being told I have cancerous or precancerous cells on my cervix or uterus.  I would have a hysterectomy.  Or a joint that needed replacing....  I like to say I traded in my girls for less murderous ones! (~) (~)  Wink
  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited April 2010

    I think you made a good trade, Kimber!  Congrats on the good decision! I am so glad you had the chance to choose!  That helps you to be in charge of your body.   I can't imagine 60 Xrays and being squished that whole time.  I'm so glad you chose what you did.

  • mginger
    mginger Member Posts: 150
    edited April 2010

    Sometimes I think of having my remaining breast removed. The other day, I felt a tiny little lump and I got so stressed out that I almost fainted. Then, couldn't find the little lump anymore. But hey, apparently, a breast if full of lumps... so how do we know if it is time to rush to the doctor's office when we feel one?

    Kimber, you made the right choice. Short term pain, long term gain.  

  • Kimber
    Kimber Member Posts: 384
    edited April 2010

    Thanks mginger, I know I did.  I am having my exchange surgery on May 20 and it can't get here fast enough.  Thanks for all the encouragement and advice everyone!  I'll keep you posted (if you like...)

    kimber 

  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited April 2010

    Of course we like, Kimber!  Keep us posted!

  • vmudrow
    vmudrow Member Posts: 846
    edited May 2010

    I have had numerous biopsies, microcalcifications, latest came back ALH.  Researched tamoxifen and with a family history of bc, have decided to have masectomies.  Tomorrow is the day!!  I am 49 and having lived with the fear of bc I honestly can't wait to be done.  My surgeon is totally supportive and my insurance is covering it. 

  • vmudrow
    vmudrow Member Posts: 846
    edited May 2010

    In January biopsy showed ALH, I have had numerous biopsies and family history.  I have decided on masectomies - tomorrow is the day.  My surgeoon is totally supportive and my insurance has approved it as well as the plastic surgeon.  Keep us posted on your decision - best of luck.

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