Alternative measures to Tamoxifen?

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bichonlvr03
bichonlvr03 Member Posts: 84

As someone with DCIS and who has just completed 5 weeks of rads, I am struggling with the decision to start on Tamoxifen.  I have been reading about dietary changes and supplements, such as I3C, DIM, vitamin D, low dose aspirin, etc. and am wondering how many women in a similar situation are now making these kind of changes, either with or without the use of Tamoxifen.  Also I would like to know if anyone knows of other measures to avoid recurrence.  I realize that, with DCIS, I am lucky to be in a position where the use of Tamoxifen seems to be optional.

Barb   

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  • Punky37
    Punky37 Member Posts: 1
    edited March 2010

    I have been taking Tamoxifen for a little over a year now. The results have been great! Sure i have put up with a variety of side effects,(hot flashes, weight gain, irractic menstral cycle, mood swings, constipation) but my cancer makers have droped dramaticly:) And I am alive! Life is getting back to "normal".  There really isn't another drug like Tamoxifen for pre-menoposal women.

    I feel that the benefits of taking this drug every day for five years out weigh the side effects and greatly reduce the risk of my cancer returning.

    I hope that this helps you:)

  • MariannaLaFrance
    MariannaLaFrance Member Posts: 777
    edited March 2010

    I am not taking Tamoxifen and I am currently underoing radiation treatment. I will use aspirin therapy (baby aspirin every other day), which is okay for me, since I am 40 years old now and it has a couple of other benefits as well for those of us who are getting into the midlife years.

    I was always a healthy eater, but am going almost entirely vegetarian, and eating only organic foods when possible. It's been an adjustment, but I joined a co-op and it makes the organic foods easier and cheaper to obtain. 

    I am meeting with an endocrinologist this Friday to ask about hormone levels and what can be done with progesterone cream. Seems that sometimes balances out the estrogen since estrogen "feeds" cell growth and progesterone stops that process. I will ask the endo about it all.

    I have also cut out all parabens and any estrogenic herbs from my beauty care regime. Herbs that are estrogenic are lavendar, rosemary, etc.  Methylparaben, ethylparabens are a no-no.  I keep discovering new products weekly, so it's not as hard as I had anticipated to find those products.

    Other than that, I am just keeping up my normal, healthy, active lifestyle. Lots of exercise, getting outside without sunblock (which has all sorts of parabens in it--opting for zinc oxide based ones nowadays instead) and will begin Vitamin D supplementation soon, as it turns out my Vit D levels were low.

    Hope that helps.

  • MariannaLaFrance
    MariannaLaFrance Member Posts: 777
    edited March 2010

    Also, suggested reading for ER+PR+ cancers  Dr. John Lee..."What Doctors may not tell you about Breast Cancer"

  • bichonlvr03
    bichonlvr03 Member Posts: 84
    edited March 2010

    Thanks Marianna.  I too am making changes to skin care and cosmetics to avoid certain chemicals.  Kiehl's makes a mascara that does not contain pthlates (sp?) that is a carcinogen found in some cosmetics and plastics, I guess.  I have been wearing mascara since I was 14 and I can't give it up!  But Kiehl's is one company that makes products without a lot of harmful chemicals, such as the ones you mentioned.

     I am also trying to eat more organic foods and to use fragrance-free products.  My bloodwork showed very low Vitamin D levels (25), so I am on a loading dose of 50,000 iu once a week.  I am also taking a baby aspirin every other day, my med onc. said it couldn't hurt.  I am considering taking I3C or DIM and am wondering if anyone else has used this supplement.

     I will try to find the book you mentioned.
      

  • Katht
    Katht Member Posts: 1
    edited April 2010

    Thank you for this topic.  I had taken tamoxifen for six months when I started to lose quite a bit of hair.  I stopped taking tamoxifen and the problem stopped about six weeks later.  I have now been off tamoxifen for five months.  I just saw my oncologist yesterday.  She said that taking tamoxifen lowers the risk of another bc incidence from 10% to 6%.  So not a big difference (altho every little bit seems to help).  I have stopped drinking and started on a vegan diet.  Trying to figure out what else I can do without taking tamoxifen again.  I also have genetically tested as a deficient metaboliser for the tamoxifen drug which means it is less effective for me.  Where did the advice come from about the aspirin?  What are 13C and DIM?

  • AlohaGirl
    AlohaGirl Member Posts: 213
    edited April 2010

    Just to present the other approach, I saw two medical oncologists and both recommended I take tamoxifen to reduce my risk of recurrence or second cancer.  I was very nervous about taking it, but started in October 2009 and so far I haven't had significant problems with side effects.  I did have a major anxiety problem for a couple of days about 4 days after I started (which I attribute to the tamoxifen since there was no particular reason for me to be so anxious), and I think I get stressed a little more easily since being on it, but manageable.  I think that a lot of women take tamoxifen without significant side effects, it is just that the ones who have trouble are more likely to post.  I also saw a naturopath (who is actually one of my best friends) and am taking some supplements and am making dietary changes (though not as significant as the ones it sounds like some of you are making).  For me, taking tamoxifen means that I won't beat myself up for not doing everything that was recommended if I have breast cancer again in the future.  (That is just my personality, I'm not saying it is the right thing for everyone to do.)

  • bichonlvr03
    bichonlvr03 Member Posts: 84
    edited April 2010

    Katht - The reference to using aspirin came from news accounts I read sometime in February re a study done with a group of nurses, I believe, who had breast cancer previously and were taking aspirin.  Some used aspirin 1-3 days, some 3-5 days and others every day.  The group that did the best, something like a 70% reduction in recurrence were the group using aspirin 3-5 days, if I remember correctly.  I think I'll google that story and recheck the stats.  I3C and DIM are supplements derived from cruciferous vegetables and are considered to affect the metabolism of estrogen.  I have also heard that the supplement tumeric is helpful in lowering chances of recurrence.  It comes from curry.  Or does curry come from tumeric?    

  • Lowrider54
    Lowrider54 Member Posts: 2,721
    edited April 2010

    Tumeric is its own plant - and is a very good cancer fighter - I add it to just about everything I cook.  Curry and cumin are also good but I find the cumin to be bitter.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2010

    I had two oncologist's tell me I did not need to take Tamoxifen because I had a BM, and that the side effects of the medication were far greater than the percentage of decreased risk of recurrence.  I was happy with that advice as I did not want to take it.  Before bc, I ate healthy and exercised daily.  Now, because of the estrogen component, I have made some changes that hopefully will decrease my chance of a recurrence.  I eat only organic chicken and turkey, added flax seed to my diet, do not eat any processed foods (including lunch meat), read all labels in an effort to not consume any omega 6's, increased my omega 3's with more fish and walnuts, use a natural deodorant with no aluminum or parabens, use fragrant free/color & dye free skin products, etc..... It definitely makes buying groceries and products much more time consuming!!

  • scorp1111
    scorp1111 Member Posts: 27
    edited April 2010

    Thought i would share some valuable information that i have obtained from my nutritionist who has been practicing for over 25 years and is incredibly knowledgeable about breast cancer.  Here is what he has told me about some of the above information:

     I3C:  Can be dangerous... Some people when they digest will breakdown the I3C into a carcinogenic substance.. Others will metabolize the I3C into DIM...  DIM on the other hand is safe and metabolizes estrogen. Just take DIM

     Baby aspirin:  Certainly is not dangerous and has shown to have properties that will help with heart attacks, but if you are using for inflammation there are more potent and effective products such as Tumeric, Green tea extract, curcumin, all having broader inflammatory responses...

    Tumeric Tea:  Tumeric is hard to absorb unless it is cooked in a fatty substance, so i am not sure how much tumeric you are absorbing in a tea. 

    Estrogenic Herbs like Rosemary and lavender:  You would have to ingest such high amounts that i wouldn't worry about these herbs..

    Parabens:  Definitely should be thinking about changing all your beauty products with parabens That includes suntan lotions, shampoo, all cosmetics, think about how much lipstick you are consuming!.  Dr. Hauschka makes a great line (from Germany)  

    Natural deodorant with no aluminum... Definitely... I use Jason tea tree

     Toothpaste: Unfortunately Crest and Colgate are poison.... Use natural brands 

    Resveratrol:  Most doesn't stay in your body... when you ingest it binds to your liver and most of it is eliminated.  There is a metabolite called Pterostilbene that does stay in the bloodstream (like red wine).. The only product that i know that has isolated this metabolite so it won't be eliminated is Resveratin made by a company. called Xymogen.... XYmogen makes some great products..

    24 Hour Iodine Test:  If you have fibrocystic breast tissue it would be helpful to know if your have a high Iodine level. As iodine decrease it lowers proliferative effect. It is easy to fix...

     Estrogen Testing:  Helpful to see if you are metabolizing your estrogen properly so your Dr. can give you the proper supplements, also important to see if Tamoxifen will even metabolize in your system...

    Vitamin D:  Most women are low here... Make sure you are tested and are taking a Vitamin D that is good quality and is in an Oil base... You want to be around 75 - 85 approx..., test again after 3 mos on supplements or drops (i take 7 drops a day).. It takes a toxicity level of 400 to be harmful... 

    Vino Cap:  Promotes soft tissue healing. speeds up healing.... (lumpectomy), i am taking 2 pills/2x day.

     Breast Massage:  Important to massage your breast daily to drain the lymph system into your lymph nodes under your armpits. Circular motions moving down into your armpit... 

    Eating healthy, no sugar or alcohol, organic products when available, no processed foods, try reading the paleo diet... That is how we are meant to eat... 

     Would love to hear from anyone that has different information about any of the statements above...

     Happy healing and thank you all for any more tips on nutrition and supplements. 

     Oh, i was also reading some interesting info about Agave... I have been using it for years in lieu of sugar because it is low glycemic, but i just found out  it has as much fructose as regular sugar,(processed the same way as regular sugar)  ouch.... Beware.....Always thought it was to sweet to be true... Anyone hear this too? 

     The most important thing to remember is that we are all individuals with very different bodies and systems.. We all metabolize differently and the medical establishment unfortunately isn't focusing on all of us as individuals... You must be your own advocate and learn about your own body and what works for you. 

    Take care.. 

      

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2010

    Thanks Scorp111!!  Lots of really good information!  :)

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