Spousal issues....
In mid-November I was diagnoised with DCIS. My surgery [lumpectomy] is now set for February 1. The "delay" was a combo of research, holidays and assorted crisis in the form of additional tests necessitated after BC diagnoistic tests raised other issues. But I'm fine now, really, down from a high of three cancers to a low of one. Yippee.
Household background: I work outside the home, my husband works inside the home. We have three kids at home--12, 10, 8.
Since original diagnois my husband has accompanied me to ooddles of appointments. And he has given me lots of hugs. I really appreciate it. But here's the "fly' in the ointment: My husband is also, in my humble opinion, suffering from depression which often manifests in insomnia. He has been this way for YEARS---this is NOT related to my situation. Oh and he has ADD. All of which combine to mean that many many things in our house get forgotten or not done or can't be adhered to. Like a budget. Husband can't keep track of spending. This makes it impossible to budget. Laundry is another good example. There are always heaps of laundry. Now you might think that with kids the age of mine, they could help in doing laundry. I think so too. But husband doesn't think they will do it "right." Okay says me, let them wash their own darned clothes [which for 2 of them are uniforms] and if its not right, who cares? No go. So except for when my exceptional mother in law visits, there are HEAPS of clothes waiting to be washed. Dishes end up the same way. Husband can't seem to get himself in a system/routine that gets them done. So the kitchen is mostly a mess.
Not being the tidiest person on the planet I could probably live with all that BUT husband is always complaining about being stressed and needing time to himself. Now I get that it was hard when we had kids at home and there was constant stuff/demands but honestly now, I just don't get it. The 3 kids and I are gone by 8:45 am. No one is home until 3:30pm. Isn't that time to himself? Okay there is stuff he should be doing but he doesn't do it so call it "self time" and be done with it.
But he doesn't. What he does is to constantly say how stressed he is and how he needs time to himself. Okay but the 3 kids also need time with the whole family. Unfortunately when we do that, more often than not, he goes with us and is grumpy the whole time to the point that I think it'd be more fun to leave him home.
Then there's plan B which is where I get myself and the kids up early in the am on a day that I am not working and we all get out of the house and stay out all day and leave him to the house by himself. The problem is that he has really specific ideas as to what makes this worthwhile to him as in we have to leave so that he wakes up to an empty house. . . .which means by 7:30am. And when we haven't, then well, per him, it doesn't matter, its not good enough.
Yesterday was one of those attempts to give him a day to himself. I had MLK off. The kids and I left later than he wanted but still before 9am. We had breakfast together and then I schleped people to playdates and went to do a bit of grocery shopping [I like cooking so that wasn't such a bad thing for me]. I drove about 110 miles because one was a long distance playdate and we weren't back until 6:30 pm. This morning, husband had been up half the night with the insomnia thing so I tiptoed around, got everyone getting breakfast, did lunches and got us all gone without him waking up.
In an effort to get myself some exercise, I bought a bike which had to be picked up. Husband finally went to get it today and en route we had lunch. Lunch was a disaster. When we met husband thanked me for letting him sleep, I said I hoped it helped as I wasn't going to be able to organize him having time away for a couple of months. He said it didn't matter, not to worry, i should have just woken him up. Well the problem is, he DOESN'T MEAN IT because he says this and then he goes right back to complaining about how burned out he is how he must get some time to himself etc etc. In fact, thats what he did last night when we all got home from giving him the day to himself.
We get to lunch and I ask him about sleep etc, I get monosyllabic answers. I said I was sorry he wasn't sleeping, he says he thinks its getting better. Maybe I shouldn't have but I said I have concerns over this: here you are having sleep issues after you have had a whole day to yourself. That doesn't seem to be better. Then I said I thought maybe he should check out a support group for family members dealing with cancer. He said that would add to his stress because it would mean he needed to deal with more people. I screwed up my courage and said that as I read more and more about research about people needing people/interaction support to be healthy, I couldn't help wondering if his attitude about people was part of the problem. I made a point of saying that I didn't question that given events in his life he sure did have some reasons to lack faith in humanity and not want alot of contact but still maybe that was the problem.
The crux of his response was that in 47 years he had never gotten anything he needed from people so why should he expect differently. And yes, he said never and yes he included me in that calculation.
And I couldn't help it, I had to ask why the heck, if you get nothing you need from me, why are you married to me? Why do you have a wife and kids?
And he got angry and said I was unsupportive and that I never listen or ask the right questions and that he had to leave.
Okay, I'm unsupportive, I am a crappy wife. But I'm still left wondering: if you feel like Aaron in "the Little Drummer Boy," [the one who hated people] why on earth did you get married? And I'm also wondering when the heck I get to focus on ME instead of trying to baby you--remember me, the one stressing about whether DCIS is going to just be DCIS or whether like other women on this list, I will find I have something bigger to deal with.
Some days I feel like I am juggling just too many balls.
Any suggestions on a good antidepressant?
Thanks for listening.
Comments
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Sounds to me like the best anit depressant would be time away from him LoL. I did not hear anything here about your special time for yourself. What are you doing to take care of you?
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As someone who has been dealing with my own depression for a long time, I agree with your asessment of that your husband is depressed.Sometimes depression can make you say- no I've always been this unhappy, I have no hope when you really don't mean it. I've been on meds for nearly 10 years- I still slip off sometimes or just have days where I get overwhelmed (but with meds I snap out of it instead of spiraling downward for days) But in those moments of negativity i still have thoughts like why even bother with my life- it has no purpose. Most of the time I really like my life and I have gotten to have all sorts of cool wonderful experiences, married the love of my life, have a wonderful suppportive group of friends. Depression can make you say things you don't mean.
Insomnia sucks. Depression sucks, sometimes they go together and that really sucks. Your husband needs medical help. It is really hard for someone with untreated depression to be able to see it as a medical problem like diabetes where you are lacking certain chemicals. I still HATE it that I have to take a pill to feel okay- but when I get used to a mostly positive thought pattern and it shifts to a negative and then they just start building on each other, negative thought after negative thought, it feels like a cascade I can't control.
I'm not sure what it will take to convince your husband he needs help- sometimes blatant honesty is the best course- saying Look I love you, you need help I can't give and I need help right now dealing with the bc.
i agree with Merilee- (hey that rhymes!)- you need to put yourself first and do everything you need to do, not tiptoe around him. time for some tough love.
Dayla
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I, too, have a DH whom I love dearly, who suffers from depression, ADD and (I believe) sleep apnea (relate-abe to insomnia.) He was laid off from work the week before I delivered our first. He ended up being the stay-at-home parent. He could't load the dishwasher correctly if his life depended on it. Even with a diagram to refer to. I finally realized there are some things he just really cannot do, like asking a blind man to read instructions to you. But because you can't see/understand the limitation, it "feels" less than real.
Despite being totally unable to wash dishes or clothes, our 2 beautiful daughters (21 & 23 now) are bright, inquisitive, savvy, fun-loving, fantastic young women. Long ago I decided that the failing grades he got on housework were more than offset by the outstanding grades he got on daddy-duty. (Our younger told her dad when her first period started. She was that comfortable about it. He was appropriately 'cool' about it with her, but was busting with pride inside.)
We both think depression and ADD/ADHD are like the "chicken & egg" -- which one comes first and causes the other. Then again, does it matter at this point? In general, we have a LOT to learn about ADD. I wish I had some magic advice. I don't. We've had some successes. Many ADDs have "beginning/middle/end" issues. It's kind of like the steps of a process get all jumbled, so when he says to me "I need to install some software on the computer," I ask him "What do you need." As he mentions something, I jot it then ask a follow-up like "and what do you have to do to get that" and jot that down and help him identify the steps. Then we put them in order. Sometimes this works. Sometimes he loses the list of steps. Progress is never steady and even, but there is progress. Sometimes he will even just come over to me and say, "I have to do thus & so and I'm having a tough day. Can you help me find the beginning?"
This has not ever been easy. On the other hand he is incredibly perpceptive and I have always felt he is committed to me. When I was dx'd, he told me he would do whatever I wanted, whether I accepted/rejected chemo & radiation, he'd be there. He told me he wanted to stick it out with me, but that if I wanted him to leave (because he's so cleaning-challenged, causing me more work and maybe bad for infection, etc.) he would leave the family he loves. No one can wash enough clothes to measure up to that. I told him that if I were going to have to walk through the fires of hell, there was only one person I would want with and that was him. We cried and then laughed because we may make it, or we may not, but either way, we're going together. We were still the same two crazies we were 20 years earlier, and all indications were it was going to stay that way.
Lots of people think one should put most of their efforts into improving their "shortcomings". I think maybe not: maybe we should let ourselves focus on what we do best and "get around" stuff for which we don't have the talent/skill. "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It frustrates you and it annoys the pig." I check in here regularly (if not often). Feel free to PM me.
Peace,
Beth
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Wow Beth - what a beautiful post and how patient you've been to learn what you're husband/family needs. I can only hope to be that person. My situation is a little different, a little same. I too was extremely worried when I was dx back in June - I handle all of the housecleaning, cooking, shopping, organizing family events, bills, insurance, appts, DD's school stuff, etc. DH suffers with insomnia and I think at times depression. DH will help, but I have to specifically tell him what I need help with because as he says, he just doesn't see it or it doesn't occur to him. Then.........he makes all of these mental "to do" list and gets nothing done in one day. However, he's really pulled through. Although I had to learn to "let go" a little (b/c I am very OCD) and he put up with my bad moods we got through chemo (we'll see how radiation goes). One story to share - Right after I started chemo there was one day when nothing tasted good and I wasn't tolerating much. DH went to the store, picked up Gatorade, came home. I didn't like it, he left again got a different flavor - came home. Then I realized we were out of Kleenex, he left again - came home. I realized I needed some medication at the pharmacy - he left came home. Then DD needed a ride, he left again. Never once did he complain - It was then that I realized he was truly in it for the long haul. DH has been wonderful and he surprised me.
Good luck.
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First time I have posted to this forum/ topic. My hubby and I are both depressed, have been for years long before my breast cancer ..But opposite you, Jenn and Beth, I am the one who is AD effected (never formally diagnosed) and I have a terrible time remembering and learning things right away.. HE is the one who expects everything to be thought out thoroghly, all consequences considered, done perfectly, everytime. He gets equally angry at my leaving a light on in an empty room, as he does at Congressmen. Part of his anger is from being diabetic, but sometimes I know I do stupid things.Usually, after a few days, our outlook brightens and we love each other again.
But this week -this past year--has been emotionally rough. We had an incident two days ago where he got close to "stroke" level angry and threatened me, about something I did which happened weeks ago, and I didn't realize it was something I needed "Permission " to do.
We keep having severe blows to our finances and basically, quality of life, including the death of a beloved dog just five days before Christmas, which was the "poorest" we ever had, and I lost my my temporary job on New Years. I believe we still love each other but sometimes it's hard.
Hubby was my caregiver, and the one to deal with all the medical bills and paperwork.He kept questioning my doctors when I couldn't make sense of what they said. He was understanding through my treatment and fatigue after radiation, and more so when I had "Chemo Brain" AD. But there are times when I wonder why did I go through all of that suffering, pain, fatigue, expense? does he still want me around?
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All I can offer is hugs to you all. And please take care of yourselves!!!
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You went through all that suffering pain and fatigue so that you cold live.
If you feel he doesn't want you around then take a break from him and see how that feels for each of you. I have to say this as well. It is not ok for him to be threatening you, depression or not.
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i have great respect for your superb consideration of your husband's needs 3monstmamma. I have my share of relatives with one disorder or another and it is not easy.
I assume he is under the care of a doctor and on medication. If not, you may be amazed at how well meds work for some people. One of my good friends is at times SEVERELY depressed. She's had a couple hospital stays. Her last doctor was a miracle tho.. she's doing so so well.
i don't know how I would attempt to get more work and support from him. some people are just not capable of that sort of thing. My own husband is mildly affected, particularly in the winter. I have to be very careful not to 'yell' at him.. he is soo sensitive.
a good antidepressant for yourself? i don't know. Many many people here take them. My mom is on Paxil and she's an absolute charmer when she takes it.. so pleasant and happy... otherwise I haven't a clue.
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Hi 3monstmama ~ I don't have any personal experiences that are similar to yours but the post from Dayla (Alyad) sounds bang on to me. You need to consider your needs as well. I hope things get better for you.
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Thanks all. the supportive comments help and just venting helps alot too.
Honestly, I scratch my head over it. I am not a good housekeeper, I know it and I accept it. [How could I be? My mother is a hoarder which is a topic for elsewhere.] When I turned 30 I looked at my messy house, burst into tears and proclaimed that they had professionals for this sort of thing, hired a maid and that was that. But when my husband and I hooked up, he had a "thing" about hiring a maid to clean up. My MIL had to work cleaning other peoples houses and it really bothered him. Personally, I suspect my MIL probably thought "yippee, some lazy idiot is paying me to clean their house so I can put food on the table," but its not something my husband is willing to talk about. So once we got married and had #1 monster, he insisted he was taking over housework.
Except he STINKS at it. The ADD keeps him from getting any one task completed or he hyperfocuses which means the stove looks factory new and the floor looks ohmygod.
And honestly for years I just laughed it off and didn't stress but now that he is in depressed mode, I find myself not wanting to go home let alone doing "family" stuff together.
BFidelis, if my husband would allow me to help him with the ADD like yours, life would be easier. But in his mind, that won't work. He has to do it himself or I don't know know, it will mean he isn't a manly man????? If I ever try to say what needs to happen first, then he bites my head off and says I am telling him he can't do it and then--well he doesn't.
He insists that all these things I do/say are indicative of my lack of respect for him etc....I don't get it. I get frustrated about his cleaning technique and I don't say a word [as in scoop all papers etc into paper bag [including catalogues and junk mail and bills and place in attic]. I do my best to phrase things neutrally as in "it was on the stairs but it got moved and I can't find it" but he interprets everything as blaming him as in "you put the thing on the stairs somewhere and now I can't find it." sigh.
I really hate the eggshells part of it. Since my initial post, he has actually agreed that the monsters and I can take off for a long-planned family weekend without him [in Feb, post surgery] and I am really looking forward to it. Family time where he is yelling at our oldest is just not very restful. Its no fun being with someone who is so hypersensitive and hypercritical.
Thanks again.
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Hi all, just an update.
Well, I had my lumpectomy on Feb1 and then I had a reexcision on Feb 8. And now I have good margins. On Feb 10 I had my post op with my surgeon which, except for getting told I need to see the rad oncologist went well. At one of my multitude of phone calls in the last two weeks, when they asked me how I was doing, I said I was feeling depressed and asked for drugs. I was told that my doctors office was getting a psychiatrist who specialized in women with cancer and could I hold on until she got there. I said yes and when I had my appointment this week [sans husband], I asked to see her.
Honestly she walked in the room and I got maybe two words out before bursting into tears. And I couldn't stop. I tried but I just couldn't stop. We ended up going down to her new office and talking for an hour. I have another appointment scheduled for 2 weeks from now and a prescription for anti-depressants. She is also going to hook me up with a local support group. And eventually we will see about couples therapy. But for now its about me.
I still can't my husband to do anything about his own depression though after running through the questionaire with her, I know that is his problem. I did ask him to consider talking to his doctor about anti-depressants. I did tell him I though he was self medicating with booze and that it worried me. He got all sad and ticked off and walked away when I tried to talk to him and he won't respond to my email. I read that and he sounds awful--he isn't, he's hurting. I think the idea that he could end up a single parent scares the crap out of him. But his way of coping is just not working for me. As I said to him, I need you to do something about your depression. How come its insenstive if I ignore your requests but its okay if you ignore mine?
At least I am doing something for myself---I will deal with him later.
Thanks again.
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Blessings on you. I am SO happy to hear from you. Sounds like you are definitely on the road to sorting things out and taking control of what you can -- ATTAWOMAN. We'll continue to be here for you.
Peace,
Beth
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