Is your supplement on this list?

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  • carol1949
    carol1949 Member Posts: 562
    edited January 2010

    I, too am disgusted with people trying to negate this type of thing.  If traditional therapies were all that they are supposed to be, we wouldn't be losing the number of women to bc that we are on this site every week! 

    Furthermore, it is body, mind and spirit to heal any "dis" ease in our bodies and for any ailment, if one is to only use pharmaceuticals there is no guarantee that they will be "cured"

    I don't pay much attention to who is writing what or changing their name to what, and quite frankly I really am to busy living my life to care!  One can say quack all day to me, but the fact that I am cancer free and have a friend who is 11 years cancer free who did it totally holistically speaks to my heart!! 

    Who cares what the list says! 

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  • Yazmin
    Yazmin Member Posts: 840
    edited January 2010

    ShirleyHughes, I feel for you. When you write: "And to this day I believe with ALL my heart it is what caused my breast cancer."

    Unfortunately, I have to agree: I do believe that all this "take this, take that" is responsible for your progression. And for the progression of so many more women. They were going to put me on Tamoxifen, but thank God, I researched, and turned it down. 4 years out, and oncologists at the Cancer Treatment Centers of America can't believe how well I am doing, without any further "treatments." Of course, I was forced into chemotherapy before it was discovered that my tumor DOES NOT get any benefit, no matter how small, from chemo; I was also forced into an oophorectomy, which I regret bitterly. At least, I escaped from SERMs, AIs, etc.., which they were about to inflict if I had not resisted. But I resisted.

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  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2010

    Oh boy, this thread has gone mad.  I originally posted this to provide what I thought was a useful resource.  It merely lists specific products that have been misrepresented by their manufacturers.  Basically, these speicific manufacturers are using false advertising to claim that these specific products are safe/effective treatments or cures for cancer.

    It is simply saying that the manufacturers should not be allowed to make false claims for their products! 

    "Fake Cancer Cures Consumers Should Avoid" means just that - these products should not be considered cancer cures.  It doesn't say, for example, that curcumin is bad or good, or that Ageless Cures is bad or good.  It simply warns consumers that Ageless Cures has made unsubstantiated claims that their curcumin product is a treatment or cure for cancer.  

    I appreciate having another "tool in the shed" to help sort through the options.  I personally use curcumin because I think it has potential benefit.  I don't think it cures cancer or necessarily prevents cancer - the research and facts just are not there, yet at least.  (btw, Efflorescing-I am taking Jarrow Brand curcumin right now, but I don't necessarily recommend it.  I surely don't claim to be an expert, and I still don't understand why you'd take my word for it.)

    Bottom line is why do people get so defensive when asked for facts?  I don't care what you take or why you take it, but it's irresponsible and wrong to make claims that are unproven. Seriously, what's so bad about that? 

    Nobody is saying alternatives are bad or don't have any potential. They should be presented truthfully as to the benefits and limitations/risks.  That's all.  I just don't understand all the hoopla about it.

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  • SharaD
    SharaD Member Posts: 100
    edited February 2010

    If a supplement company is making false claims about their products....then I would also question if what they SAY is IN their products is actually in there? Sort of like where there's smoke there's fire? So this did make me go and check some of my bottles.

    Also, if someone isn't watching out for these false claims, then what's next...."peanuts cure depression" on a jar of Skippy? In fact...didn't we see that recently with cereals, one of them had claims about lowering cholesterol and was forced to remove it? I like to think that we're a bunch of smart, informed women here...but we have to admit, there are gullible fools out there and they are lucky that someone is watching out for these false and misleading sales tactics.

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  • SharaD
    SharaD Member Posts: 100
    edited February 2010

    If a supplement company is making false claims about their products....then I would also question if what they SAY is IN their products is actually in there? Sort of like where there's smoke there's fire? So this did make me go and check some of my bottles.

    Also, if someone isn't watching out for these false claims, then what's next...."peanuts cure depression" on a jar of Skippy? In fact...didn't we see that recently with cereals, one of them had claims about lowering cholesterol and was forced to remove it? I like to think that we're a bunch of smart, informed women here...but we have to admit, there are gullible fools out there and they are lucky that someone is watching out for these false and misleading sales tactics.

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  • SharaD
    SharaD Member Posts: 100
    edited February 2010

    If a supplement company is making false claims about their products, it is a red flag for me....and I might also question whether or not what they SAY is IN their products is actually in there? Sort of like where there's smoke there's fire? So this thread did make me go and check some of my bottles.

    Also, if someone isn't watching out for these false claims, then what's next...."peanuts cure depression" on a jar of Skippy? In fact...didn't we see that recently with cereals, one of them had claims about lowering cholesterol and was forced to remove the claim? I like to think that we're a bunch of smart, informed women here...but we have to admit, there are gullible fools out there and they are lucky that someone is watching out for these false and misleading sales tactics.

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  • RunswithScissors
    RunswithScissors Member Posts: 323
    edited February 2010

    Here's an interesting site, part of the NIH and the "government approved" perspective.  They address complementary and alternative medicine, and discuss those that  have been  formally studied:

    http://nccam.nih.gov/

    Here they have a page devoted to supplements called Wise Use:

     http://nccam.nih.gov/health/supplements/wiseuse.htm

     I don't really agree that the discussion here has "gone mad".   The original post presented

    facts according to the FDA.  Not everyone considers the FDA completely credible or reliable.  Unfortunately, the FDA has done a great deal of harm to it's reputation and the skepticism isn't really a big surprise.  

    BTW, I perused the Dana Farber site a bit - including the page that lists the breast cancer clinical trials they participate in.  Overwhelmingly, they were drug related. Not a single nutrition study among them.     

    An analogy  comes to mind  - the medical industry is looking for a lost key in the parking lot. They searched the spot called "drug" very thoroughly.  Instead of widening the search to other spots  in the parking lot, they take out a magnifying glass and search the "drug" spot again. Then they go back  with a microscope....  then they send in a different team of people and look some more.....

    The approach is as illogical as all the snake oil out there.  Folks are weary of watching it, and weary of paying for it, in both the research sense  and in the treatment sense.       No wonder the public is mistrustful and desperate for alternatives.

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  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2010

    Hi RunsWithScissors,

    Thanks for the nccam links - good find! 

    I completely agree with your analogy!  I agree that the FDA isn't perfectly credible or reliable.  I didn't post the list as intended gospel. I posted it as simply one resource that anyone can take or leave.  

    When I said the discussion had gone mad, I meant that it had devolved to name calling and convoluted reasoning.  

    A few posts back, you brought up vitamin C and scurvy, saying that that wasn't allowed.  I agreed with you that was ridiculous, so I looked it up on the fda site, and thankfully, that is not the case:

    ******************************

    Are there other claims that can be made for dietary supplements under this section of the law?

    Yes. Section 403(r)(6) also states that dietary supplements can use claims about nutrient deficiency diseases (for example, vitamin C and scurvy) or that describe the effect of the dietary supplement on general well-being.

    What requirements must I meet to make any of these types of claims for my dietary supplement?

    There are three requirements you must meet. First, the law says you can make these claims if you have substantiation that the claims are truthful and not misleading. You must have this substantiation before you make the claims. Second, you must notify FDA that you are using the claim within 30 days of first marketing your product. Third, the claim must include a mandatory disclaimer statement that is provided for in the law.

    *********************************

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  • MsBliss
    MsBliss Member Posts: 536
    edited February 2010

    WOW--this is a misleading post.  The issue herein is about false claims, but you are indicting ingredients and supplements that are evidence based and being used in major cancer centers as supportive therapies.  This confuses people interested in supporting their health with integrative medicine. 

    Why are you doing this?

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  • RunswithScissors
    RunswithScissors Member Posts: 323
    edited February 2010

    Thanks for finding the document that clarifies the FDA rules, thenewme.

    I stand corrected.  

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  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2010

    MsBliss, I'm not sure whether you were referring to me as the original poster.  If so, I'm sorry you feel misled, as that was not my intent. As I've explained over and over, you're right - the issue IS about false claims.  No manufacturer or seller (regardless of conventional or alternative) should be able to make claims unless they have "substantiation that the claim is truthful and not misleading."  I honestly don't understand the confusion - maybe you were referring to something else entirely?

    You said :

    "WOW--this is a misleading post. The issue herein is about false claims, but you are indicting ingredients and supplements that are evidence based and being used in major cancer centers as supportive therapies. This confuses people interested in supporting their health with integrative medicine.

    Why are you doing this?"

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  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 1,595
    edited February 2010

    There was once upon a time I would rely on the FDA for credible information.  Supposedly they exist to protect the health and well being of citizens, and perhaps in some cases they do, but I suspect the longer list would be the examples of where they fail. 

    To anyone seeking honesty and truth in what we read from the FDA,  may I suggest any or all of the following books:  

    • The Hundred-Year Lie:  How to Protect Yourself from the Chemicals That Are Destroying Your Health by Randall Fitzgerald
    The Truth about the Drug Companies:  How They Deceive Us and What to Do About It by Marcia Angell

    What Your Doctor Doesn't Know About Nutritional Medicine May Be Killing You by Ray D. Strand M.D.

    I truly wish that we could rely on the FDA for honest information.  Unfortunately, it's difficult to discern what herbs or supplements could be beneficial for us because once a 'claim' is made that curcumin, for example, can protect against cancer, the FDA will step in and say that only drugs can be associated with such claims.  They won't disallow the sale of curcumin, just the claim that it could be beneficial in preventing cancer.  It makes for muddy waters imo and it's due in large part to the FDA rules that dictate what 'counts' as a drug. 
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  • CrunchyPoodleMama
    CrunchyPoodleMama Member Posts: 1,220
    edited February 2010

    Althea, The Hundred-Year Lie is SO good and SO enlightening. Just the timeline alone (somewhere near the beginning of the book) is so eye-opening!! Great recommendations.

    Another good one is Fight for Your Health: Exposing the FDA's Betrayal of America by Byron Richards. I would say it's even better than The Hundred-Year Lie, if you can believe that. I used to wonder why there were so many previously FDA-approved drugs that turned out to be harmful. Now it all makes sense and I just have to roll my eyes when I hear that something is "FDA-approved."

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  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2010

    But see, that's the thing!  I can understand (and agree!) that the FDA has some pretty serious shortcomings, failures, etc.  I also happen to think that the FDA has done and is doing some very good things. 

    But this post is about truth in advertising.  It's about facts.  It's not a subjective thing, even if you don't like the person/entity that delivered the message.  You can't say your supplement cures or treats cancer unless you have verifiable FACTS to support that. 

    The companies on the list mentioned do just that - they make claims that they can't back up. 

    Maybe another thread to discuss issues with the FDA would be in order, but is there anyone here who thinks it's ok for manufacturers to make unsubstantiated claims??

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  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2010

    Althea,

    Did you read the FDA letter to Ageless Cures regarding its curcumin products?  It just happens to be one example, but it seems to be pretty typical.  Basically the FDA called them out because THEY were making unsubstantiated claims.  If they hadn't claimed that curcumin cures cancer, then the FDA wouldn't have considered it a drug.  In this case, I'm not sure what's so muddy about it.  If you sell sell bubble bath as bubble bath you're probably okay, but when you start claiming that bubble bath cures or treats cancer, then the FDA has every right and responsibility to intervene, don't you agree?

    Again, it's not that curcumin is useless or has shown absolutely no benefit, but if you really read the research - it hasn't (yet?) been proven to be a cure or treatment for cancer, per se. 

    I'm thankful that the FDA warns us to take a second look at suspicious claims rather than fall for the hype and half-truths of the advertising.

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  • SharaD
    SharaD Member Posts: 100
    edited February 2010

    The confusion is with the topic title, I think.  It should be "Is Your BRAND of Supplement on this List? "

     A new title might be more informative and useful, since some people will browse past your title thinking "oh, another post saying that supplements are useless and I know that's not true"......when actually if they knew the subject was the misleading advertising by some manufacturers, they might be interested to see if their BRAND is on the list. 

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  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 1,595
    edited February 2010

    thenewme, if you want to place your faith and trust in the FDA, I certainly can't stop you.  I can only point to reasons why I arrive at different conclusions, which I did in my previous post on this thread.  And yes, I read the FDA letter.  And no, I don't approve of false claims.  If you continue your quest for truth, I predict you won't be starting threads in the alternative forum touting the FDA as a beacon for all to follow. 

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  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2010

    Hi SharaD, I understand what you're getting at, but I think the same confusion would occur with your version of the title.  As I understand it, the problem is not with the brand Ageless Cures, per se, nor with curcumin per se.  The problem is that Ageless Cures is/was promoting their curcumin as a treatment/cure for cancer. 

    Althea, again, I'm not sure which part of "I can understand (and agree!) that the FDA has some pretty serious shortcomings, failures, etc." you are missing.  I don't place all my faith and trust in the FDA, and I surely don't believe they are a "beacon for all to follow."

    I must have missed the post where you arrived at different conclusions.  The only posts on this thread from you are explaining your distrust of the FDA.  Distrust them all you want, but you seem to agree that  manufacturers should not be allowed to make false claims.  That's exactly my point - not a different conclusion at all, is it?

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  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 1,595
    edited February 2010

    I'll add another book for recommended reading: 

    Waking the Warrior Goddess:  Dr Christine Horner's Program to Protect against Fight Breast Cancer

    The final chapter of this book lists 30 things women can do to protect their health against breast cancer.  Supplementing with curcumin is one of them. There's a lot of sources that support the idea that curcumin has beneficial effects against cancer. 

    To claim that it's a cure is over the top, but I reckon those cows in California aren't as happy as the ones in the tv commercial for milk and cheese either.  It's the nature of advertising to puff up whatever perceived benefit a product has.  It would be nice to live in a society where we have easy access to accurate, evidence-based facts, not overblown claims and misinformation. If I saw the FDA clamping down on happy cow commercial the same way they're calling out false claims on curcumin, I probably wouldn't comment on this thread at all.  The assertion of false claims is only the topic on the surface.  It's what lurks beneath that is what I call muddy.  

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2010

    thenewme, how did you arrive at your statement: "The problem is that Ageless Cures is/was promoting their curcumin as a treatment/cure for cancer." ?

    Ageless Cures was cited for posting links like: http://www.curcuminresearch.org/ 

    which lists clinical trials to answer the question: "How should curcumin be taken?

    and http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/69/1/195.abstract

    which substantiates the statement: "Laboratory data indicate that curcumin can inhibit tumor initiation, promotion, invasion, angiogenesis and metastasis'

    and information about "The National Cancer Institute is currently developing curcumin as a drug for the treatment of cancer"

    which can be located here at:  http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/14/14/4491.full

    A simple web search tells the entire story. This has nothing to do with inflated claims that Curcumin  or any other supplement can cure cancer but has everything to do with censorship and blacklisting. Ageless Cures removed the links and they use a GMP facility to manufacture their products just as your source Jarrow Formulas does.

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  • RunswithScissors
    RunswithScissors Member Posts: 323
    edited February 2010

    A  dairy  farm near where I live was recently outed on the news for  it's decidely

    not-happy-cowness.

    USDA and FDA rules take no issue with the problems they brought to light.   (Passing this buck as a "local" govt  problem??)    Alas, local authorities can't seem to fine any laws  broken ... apparently while cruelty to lab rats is a crime... cruelty to cows - not so much.

    Kind of odd. 

    Ok, kind of off topic, too. 

    But someone else mentioned happy cows, and this is a sore spot with me. 

    Yeah, I guess I might have tried to exploit this open door opportunity. Please forgive.  I like cows. 

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