Confused about diet

Bless · February 2010

I'm just starting to research what would be a good diet for someone with ER+ BC. And boy am I confused! I was wondering if any of you have already done the research and if so, what you've found/decided?

I've come across data that suggests eating foods that are plant based estrogen rich foods can be beneficial because the plant based estrogen is basically a kinder, gentler, weaker form of estrogen which if your body uses/absorbs it then the stronger estrogen that your body makes will not be used. I've also seen conflicting data which says that if you have ER + BC you should avoid estrogen rich foods because the consumption of such foods could cause the cancer to grow at a faster rate.

Some of the foods identified as high in estrogen are

Animal flesh
Anise seed
Apples
Baker's yeast
Barley
Beets
Carrots
Cherries
Chickpeas
Clover
Cowpeas (black- eyed peas)
Cucumbers
Dairy Foods
Dates
Eggs
Eggplant
Fennel
Flaxseeds
Garlic
Hops
Licorice
Oats
Olive oil
Olives
Papaya
Parsley
Peas
Peppers
Plums
Pomegranates
Potatoes
Pumpkin
Red beans
Red clover
Rhubarb
Rice
Sage
Sesame seeds
Soybean sprouts
Soybeans
Split peas
Sunflower seeds
Tomatoes
Wheat
Yams
That list of foods came from Holisticonline.com

I've also found different sources claiming that the same particular food is good or bad.

When faced with conflicting info I tend to disregard all until I'm able to find the time to do the research into who is claiming what based on what data. I'm really hoping that someone else may have already tackled this daunting task. Or maybe you have a resource that you feel is reliable. Many of the anti-cancer diets that I've come across are not breast cancer specific. My fear is that what is a good anti-brain cancer diet may not be so good if you've got BC. I know that I am obsessing...sorry but if I'm going to change my diet, I'd like to feel confident that I'm giving up foods that I enjoy for some real benefit.

CrunchyPoodleMama · February 2010

I found the list you posted on that site, and the verbiage on it makes me think that site has no idea what it's talking about. For instance, it has a list of foods that "inhibit estrogen," and it has white rice and white flour. That's a troubling recommendation... no one with breast cancer should be eating white rice or white flour!

The thing to understand is the difference between phytoestrogens and xenoestrogens. Here's a summary (I found this article by Googling and it supports what I understand about phyto- and xenoestrogens, but I cannot vouch for the accuracy or reputation of the rest of the website where I found this):

There are several plant sources that contain molecules that will bind to, and activate the estrogen receptor. These are collectively called phytoestrogens. The best sources of phytoestrogens are found in soy and flaxseed. Many other plants contain phytoestrogens in lesser amounts.
When women consume phytoestrogens, the phytoestrogens compete with estrogen naturally present in the body for a spot on the estrogen receptor. When phytoestrogens bind to the receptor they activate the receptor, but to a lesser extent than if estrogen were to bind to it. This lessens the effects of estrogen in the body.
This is a very good thing. Too much estrogen causes all kinds of problems for both men AND women. Too much estrogen can lead to breast cancer and other cancers of the reproductive system. Although many women may think of estrogen as the "womanly hormone," having too much estrogen is a very bad thing for the body.
See the image below for the chemical structure of phytoestrogens (top two structures) and the structure of estradiol (estrogen produced within the body - the bottom structure).
The phytoestrogens occupy and activate the same receptor in the body as estradiol (estrogen), but activate it to a lesser extent.
Xenoestrogens
In contrast to phytoestrogens, xenoestrogens are not naturally occuring estrogenic molecules. Xenoestrogens are man-made molecules commonly found in pesticides, growth hormones given to farm animals to fatten them up for human consumption, and chemicals that leach into our food from plastics (e.g., plastic water and soda bottles, the plastic lining of canned foods).
Xenoestrogens also bind to and activate the estrogen receptor, but to a much greater extent than estradiol (estrogen). This means that while phytoestrogens may help prevent estrogen induced cancers, xenoestrogens may help to cause cancer. You want to avoid consuming these whenever possible. Heating plastics, especially in a microwave, causes these xenoestrogens to be released into your food.

For further reading:

A dichotomy in the lipophilicity of natural estrogens, xenoestrogens, and phytoestrogens (Cunningham, Klopman, and Rosenkranz)

Member_of_the_Club · February 2010

Bless, I think your first paragraph nailed the controversy. What you will hear mostly on these boards is that phytoestrogens may fuel breast cancer and be avoided. However, there is a contrary theory out there that phytoestrogens act like tamoxifen and trick the cancer cells into thinking they have estrogen when they don't, thereby inhibiting cancer. Like you, i wish there was an answer. I have decided to follow my onc's advice and will eat soy in small quantities but never as a supplement.

I do take issue with this exhaustive list of foods that seem fine, or if they aren't necessarily fine its for reasons other than estrogen. I agree with Julia that the controversy is really about soy and flaxseed.

LoriL · February 2010

Crunchypoodle- thanks for the explanation of the difference between phytoestrogens and xenoestrogens. My mother in law is notorious for reheating all food in plastic containers in the microwave. I've been trying to come up with a tactful way of suggesting she do otherwise, especially when I am visiting at her house. But, she is a little hard to approach with those sorts of issues. Especially when it is something that she always does in "her" kitchen.

Confused about diet

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