Supporting my Mother
Dear all,
My 64 year old mom was diagnosed (dx) on 1/4 with invasive ductal BC with spread to the nodes. From what I understand, they did a guided ultrasound and biopsy to determine this. (From all I've read here and elsewhere, I'm confused as to how they are certain of the nodal spread but I'll trust the pathology report.) After several conversations with my mom, I asked her to return to her pcp who contacted her with the results to ask some additional questions - namely about PR and ER tests which were negative. He sent her home with pathology reports to share with the surgeon to whom she was referred. That appointment takes place on 1/19. Since her initial biopsy (prior to Christmas), her breast has become inflamed and swollen to the point where she's indicated that she can no longer wear a seatbelt from the pain.
After doing a good bit of research, I came upon the HER2 designation and had my mom read back the results from the path report. She's also HER2 negative from best I can tell. (FISH results were 1.2 which appears to fall below the standard.) She also read some other information, including the mitosis of the cells which appears to be 80%. I didn't tell her that this result indicated to me that we were dealing with a fast-moving, aggressive cancer. However, I did tell her about the TN designation and asked if any of the folks she spoke with mentioned it. They didn't. Naturally, that concerns me greatly about the quality of care she might receive.
Mom has pretty much followed the stages of grieving since diagnosis although she seems to have skipped the denial part rather dramatically. One of the biggest issues I've been dealing with is her anger and it seems that she's directing most of it towards my father. Her quality of life over the past few years (really, since I moved out over 15 years ago) has been fairly poor. She wants to travel but complains that my dad won't go with her. She doesn't exercise because of knee issues and again blames my dad because he won't go with her. Plus she rarely is off the computer for more than 30 minutes. Her sleeping habits are really poor and she seems to take between 3-4 naps a day and then stays up until 3-4 in the morning and doesn't wake up until 9 AM - again, playing computer games. Nutrition is another hot topic with her and she is about 60-70 lbs overweight.
I hate sharing all these negative attributes with you all but I think they're important to the overall treatment plan. I've advised my mom that she needs to think beyond the mastectomy and chemo and about the whole-person. Her doctor, thus far, hasn't mentioned any supportive care and I truly believe this is going to be important. Otherwise I'm afraid she'll have the mastectomy and chemo, then decide that it's too much, and allow herself to fall further into a state of disrepair. When I've asked her about those components, she's told me that she knows plenty about nutrition and the exercise won't change because of my father. I'm really at a loss as to how to deal with this. I've tried being supportive, which causes her to rail on about my dad right in front of him, and I've tried helping her problem-solve to see that the solution to the exercise may actually be in her own hands. I've also confronted her directly about some of the nasty things she's said to my dad. (She denies saying such things but I hear her do it while I'm on the phone with her and I've heard her do so for many years prior to the BC diagnosis.) She's really a caring, giving woman with most folks but my dad catches the brunt of her anger so please understand she's not a total harpy and, on the flip side, my dad isn't the easiest man to live with either.
I'm just at a loss as to what to do and could really use some survivor perspectives. Understandably, I'm not going through what she is so I don't understand it from the first-person perspective. I've suggested that they contact the ACS and the local agency on aging for some support services but mom is adamant that my dad needs to experience what caregiving means just like she did when she cared for my grandmother, his sister, my cousin, etc. (My dad has quite a bit of medical background from 20 years as a medic including service in WWII and Korea.) Is there any way that I can make a referral? Will it cause more harm than good?
I am also a firm believer in allowing my mom to make decisions about her own health care. I don't plan to push for treatments she doesn't want and I want to take her feelings about her own quality of life into account. She initially indicated that she wouldn't have chemo since she had such a poor quality of life already and it wouldn't help. I accepted that and moved on but other family members and friends seem to have convinced her to at least try the chemo. So, it appears that we're having a reversal in decision making. Mom has always had a need to feel like she was needed to care for other people and has relished attention (as we all do in our own ways) so I'd guess that the number of folks calling and telling her to try it out has changed her mind.
There's just so many questions I have. Hopefully you all won't mind me asking for a bit of understanding while I lend some of my strength to my parents. Despite a strong background in psychology (I have a PhD in a psych-related field), I just can't quite figure out a way to deal with this one.
Since I've rambled so well, I'll summarize the key questions:
1. How do I deal with mom's anger and help her stop directing it towards my father? I've advised her to get some psychological care in the past but she doesn't think it's necessary. In addition, she has a stigma towards mental illness.
2. Considering her poor health prior to diagnosis, what should I take into consideration as I hear more about the various treatments proposed? (I've done some considerable research on the treatments and my mom has pretty much relied on me to do so and is choosing to remain in the dark in regards to treatment. She seems to have an inherent trust of MDs.)
3. How do I convince her to seek out some support for herself and my father? What resources are there out there for low-/no-impact exercise and nutrition? Are any available in paper format since my dad doesn't 'do' computers and my mom rarely uses the net for research?
Comments
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This is going to be tough for you, because it sounds like you don't live close enough to go with your mom to appts, etc. I've been in the same situation when my mom has faced medical issues, and it's terribly frustrating.
To make things worse, it sounds like your mom was having problems before she was ever diagnosed with BC. For some people, a cancer dx sweeps out all the non-important stuff in your life. Other people seem to focus more on these things.
I don't think I knew about my triple-negative status until after my surgery. I'm not sure that PCPs really know much about cancer information. Hopefully, your mom will get more info from the surgeon tomorrow.
I'm concerned about the fact that your mom's breast has been inflamed and painful. She should have gone back to the doctor about that. Perhaps there's an infection. Or she may have inflammatory breast cancer, which has its own dangerous aspects and needs prompt treatment.
Is there any friend or relative that can go with your mom to her appt tomorrow? You really need two sets of eyes and ears (and two brains) to process all the information she's going to get.
In general, a lumpectomy followed by radiation is just as effective as a mastectomy. If she has a very large tumor or perhaps several tumors, a mastectomy might be a better choice.
They might not even talk to her about chemo until after her surgery. If her tumor is smaller than 1 cm, she probably won't need chemo because the risks of the treatment typically outweigh the benefit at that tumor size.
However, if her tumor is bigger than 1 cm, she really needs to do chemo. Triple-negative women have no other weapons to fight the cancer. None of the hormone-related treatments (tamoxifen, herceptin, etc.) will help us. Most people say it's best to hit the cancer as hard as you can at your very first opportunity. Nuke it from space.
I wouldn't even worry about diet and exercise right now. Your mom is going to be fighting for her life here. She's got to completely focus on getting through treatment. Afterwards, she can make her own decisions about diet and exercise. You're not going to change 64 years of habits.
And if she chooses not to do treatment, that's her choice. It's a hard one to stand by and watch, because I can practically guarantee that it will shorten her life. But your mom's an adult and gets to make her own decisions about these types of things.
I'm so sorry that your mom's going through this. This is a very difficult experience for the entire family. Is there any chance that she might go to counseling to help sort out her feelings about all this? To tell you the truth, it may become easier once she starts treatment, because she will be too busy/tired to do much except just put one foot in front of the other for a while.
I don't know if my words will make you feel better or worse. But I am sympathetic to your situation. Don't forget to take care of yourself during this stressful time.
--CindyMN
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Just re-read your post and saw that your mom's not keen on counseling. That's too bad, especially since it sounds like she could really benefit from it. My folks are divorced and my dad says nasty things about people to me, and I just have to cut him off and say I don't want to hear it. When I was in treatment, I couldn't even talk to him. I didn't have the energy.
So I don't know what you can do to be supportive, yet not enabling, to your mom. Maybe someone else on these boards will have more ideas.
I *can* tell you that the high grade of your mom's tumor is typical for triple-negatives. I don't think I've ever heard of a triple-negative tumor that wasn't the most aggressive grade (level 3). But that's also the reason why we respond so well to chemo, which targets fast-growing cells.
Hang in there!
--CindyMN
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Thanks for the post, Cindy. I do appreciate it.
Right now, my mom has her next door neighbor and my dad going to the surgeon with her tomorrow. Supposedly, her pcp has said they're going to do a mastectomy with lymph node removal and that the oncologist will follow.
She did talk to the pcp about the inflamed breast but he seemed to indicate that there wasn't much to be done since there just weren't any earlier appointment times with the surgeon. I really haven't understood the delay and asked her to get another consult but she trusts her pcp and wants to do as he directed.
The triple negative status was based on the pathology of the biopsy they took right before Christmas. They sent it off for a FISH test and got all that back near the start of January. According to my mom, the ultrasound folks are the ones that identified the glandular involvement and it is mentioned in the pathology report.
I mostly asked about the diet and exercise for two reasons. One, my mom believes she understands nutrition but I think she has some large deficits in her understanding. In addition, my dad isn't exactly a stellar cook unless she's going to survive on fried egg sandwiches and sausages and kraut. Maybe he'll toss in a bowl of ice cream or two too. So nutrition would be as much for him as for her.
I'd also done a lot of reading on the value on light exercise for helping combat some of the side effects of chemo - namely the fatigue - and the additional bonus of lower recurrence rates in the future. I don't want her doing jumping jacks but I just think some yoga or even some stretching exercises might prove of benefit. Aerobic exercise can certainly come later but I worry that if she's allowed to stay in bed all the time, that's precisely what she'll do. Plus, if she does have the double masectomy, she's going to rebuild some of that shoulder strength.
Grocery shopping, housecleaning, lawncare, and petcare aren't as big of concerns since my dad's been doing all that for years now. It's mostly cooking and making sure my mom has 'some' movement but nothing too taxing because of pre-dx conditions.
I do appreciate your posts and the information you shared. It's definitely going to be quite the fight for her and I will certainly try to support her as much as I can from a distance and in person as frequently as I am able. I've already told her that I'm fine as to whatever treatment decisions she makes even if that involves no treatment as long as she thinks hard and long about the consequences of not treating it. I want her to feel empowered in her decision making and feel that she needs to do what's best for her, not everyone else around her.
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Maraena:
I understand your concerns about your mom's nutrition and exercise. Many women do appear to handle treatment better if they continue exercising. I wasn't much of an exerciser before cancer and I honestly didn't have the energy during treatment to do anything but drag myself to work. (And often, not even that.)
Post-treatment, I have started to exercise more but it took me at least six months after the end of chemo before I felt strong enough to do much more than just walk. You may be overly optimistic to think that a 64-year-old lady who hasn't exercised in the past is going to jump on the exercise bandwagon during cancer treatment. <grin>
The nutrition thing is another matter. Fried egg sandwiches probably aren't going to cut it.
But your folks may need to rely on frozen dinners or restaurant delivery for a while.
Your mom will still be able to cook after she recovers from the surgery. She just shouldn't lift anything heavier than a gallon of milk for about six weeks. Also, she may only be able to tolerate basic comfort foods (macaroni and cheese, mashed potatoes) during chemo.
My chemo made my fingertips and toes go numb, so I was afraid I'd chop a finger off in the kitchen. <grin> So I asked my husband to help. (Men are good at destructive tasks! LOL) He's continued to be my "chopper" and we really enjoy cooking together. It also let him feel that he could DO something to help me during treatment.
Forgive me for being blunt, but I wonder if your concern over her nutrition and exercise is something you've latched onto that you can DO to help her. But to someone facing cancer treatment, fretting about diet and exercise is kind of like worrying about getting soot on your shoes when your house is burning down.
I hope your mom gets some good information at her appt today. You can't make good decisions without good information. I'm glad your dad and neighbor are going with your mom. That should help a lot. The more ears, the better. Let me know how it went.
--CindyMN
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Hi Maraena,
That's wonderful that you're so concerned and involved in your mother's treatment and care. My mother passed away a few months ago, after going on dialysis just so that she could see me through the worst of the bc experience (diagnosis, chemo and surgery). I'm happy to report that I'm doing great, and although I've been "let-go" at work, it gave me the time I've needed to start a real exercise program and diet. Everything I read about bc, and tn in particular, tells me that weight control and exercise are critical to a recurrance-free survival.
While in treatment, my onc put me on an anti-depressant. She said it was for the chemo-induced hot flashes, although I doubt it. I think it was because she's learned that bc newbies are apt to be depressed. (I'm 55, btw, so I know about hot flashes; been there, done that!). Anyway, I went off the anti-depressant about 6 months ago because I know from past experience that it wasn't helping with weight loss, and I didn't really need it. But, as I read your post about your mother, the first thought I had was that she's probably terrified inside, and in denial (denial about the future, not about what she's going through now). Consequently, I thought she would be a great candidate for an anti-depressant to "take-the-edge-off" things. Just a thought?
As for me, I didn't really start thinking about the future and what I was going to do to survive this beast until I was all through with chemo and surgery and began to get my life back. I think the important thing may be to get your mother through the initial treatment - which will probably definitely include chemo (for tn), and take it from there. Hopefully, her onc will be able to explain the benefits of chemo on tn bc. If not, try another onc?
Good luck and please keep us posted!
Sue
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Thank you Sue and Cindy and for the perspective. Based on the doctor's appointment yesterday, it appears that Mom's going with chemo first. She's committed to doing it so that's a plus! She did ask me if she was allowed to back out if she didn't like it and, as much as I wanted to tell her no, I explained that it was her option. The surgeon also indicated that she's going to get a port prior to starting chemo. (I'm curious as to whether that means the surgeon expects her to be on chemo for a long while?) It appears that we're still holding to Stage III but the surgeon was definitely concerned about the IBC. (I was too based on my mom's symptoms but I didn't want to alarm her.)
Right now we're waiting for the oncologist appointment time. While I hope they get her in before Friday, I'm just not able to make the trip down before then. The neighbor that went with her yesterday also won't be able to take off work. So, maybe the onc will allow me to take part via phone conference? I asked everyone that went yesterday to ask about that but I guess they thought I meant if I could call the surgeon whenever I liked. (I could've sworn I made it clear but I know how thoughts disappear in situations like this.)
With all that in mind, I'm trying to figure out a plan to ensure she has support (beyond my dad) for the upcoming treatments. I'm also trying to ready my own employers for some anticipated absences. What sort of timeline will be working with here? Will be chemo be once a week, every two weeks, etc? From your all's perspective, what days will mom need me or another outside caregiver the most (day of treatment, day after, day before, etc.)? I realize that Dad is probably going to be the main person going with her, but I'm going to do my best to organize folks to give him some respite. For those who had a main caregiver, how often do they benefit from these breaks?
I have to admit, I'm not good about trusting MD's and I really don't trust the care she's going to get in my hometown (no CCIs and she doesn't want to come here where there is a top-rated CCI). So, I've got a ton of research to do on the types of chemo they might prescribe. My main concern is that she's shown some symptoms of heart disease in the past, including high blood pressure and cholesterol. Are there chemo treatments that I should absolutely watch out for considering those previous health issues?
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In 2005, I hardly heard of anybody getting chemo before surgery, but it is now much more common. If it is a really large tumor, the surgeon may want to shrink it down so it will be easier to obtain clean margins. Another benefit of chemo before surgery is that you will be able to see if the chemo drugs are actually working. If the tumor shrinks, it's a good match.
Usually, chemo for breast cancer lasts about four months. It can be given once a week, once every two weeks or once every three weeks. The norm used to be every three weeks because the patient's white cells took that long to recover before the next dose.
Now they have (very expensive) shots they can give you to boost your white cells. There's a variety that you shoot yourself once a day for like five days. I think it's called Neupogen. I had Neulasta, which is a single shot from a nurse usually the day after chemo.
When you take these shots, you can have chemo every two weeks. In theory, it hurts the cancer cells more thoroughly because they haven't had as much time to recover. However, these shots make your bones hurt, especially the long bones in your legs. And I mean: "Hurt so bad you can't go to sleep without Percoset." But that only lasts a few days. Each time. <grin>
I've had breast cancer twice, two separate types of primary tumors, both triple-neg. The second one was not related to the first one. In 2005, I got chemo every two weeks. Four doses of adriamycin combined with cytoxin (sp?) and then four rounds of Taxol.
Triple negs almost always get a taxane. The most common is Taxol. It can damage the nerves going to your fingertips and toes, but it works incredibly well on triple-neg tumors. The adriamycin can cause heart damage, so it was not a repeat option for me in 2007.
Instead, I got weekly doses of taxol and carboplatin. The weekly doses were smaller, so it was MUCH easier on my body. I got tired but that was about it. In fact, I only threw up once in 2005. They give you lots of anti-nausea drugs, so that isn't as much of a problem as it used to be.
I never really needed anybody to take care of me during treatment. I needed a ride to and from the appointment, mainly because they give you benedryl which can make you sleepy to drive home. My husband would drop me off (he was unemployed at the time) and pick me up when I called.
Some people like to bring a friend to chemo, but I just brought my iPod, some crosswords, a book to read, snacks, etc. My 2007 infusions took three hours, so sometimes I'd take a nap. It doesn't hurt going in or anything.
I've had two ports and, IMO, that's the way to go. Lots of my friends who didn't get ports have fried veins now, which makes blood draws from that arm almost impossible. The port itself is about the size of four half-dollars stacked up and it goes under the skin just below your collarbone.
It's like a drum with a rubber top on it, which gives the nurses a giant target for the IV needle. Tubing is threaded through the jugular all the way to the heart, protecting the vein from the chemo meds. In the heart, there's a pool of blood to dilute the caustic effects of the drugs.
If I knew I were only going to get four treatments, I might not opt for a port. Anything more, I'd definitely get one. I had eight separate treatments in 2005 and 12 in 2007.
Most people I know go to work during the four months of chemo, taking off a few days around each treatment. You're tired, but not incapacitated. Almost everybody loses their hair, typically about 14 days after the first treatment. It's kind of traumatic at the time, but it's really not that big a deal. Insurance will pay for a wig ("head prosthesis") <grin> but I just wore stretchy hats.
Hope this info helps!
--CindyMN
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This is some great information, Cindy. Thank you once again. I really do appreciate it.
We still don't have an appointment date for mom yet. I thought we'd have one today but once again we appear to be in 'hurry up and wait' mode.
Mom's fully retired so she won't have to worry about work. In some ways, I almost wish she was still working since I think she'd be out and about a little more.
I guess we'll find out how many treatments we're looking at when she visits the oncologist. I'll try to get there but it's quite difficult to take time off suddenly and then get somewhere that's 9 hours away. Here's to hoping he's open to allowing me to come to the appointments in a non-traditional way.
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No problem!
Treatment sucks, but it isn't nearly as horrible as most people expect. A few people have a harder time with it than others, but it's really very few. It may help your mom to have a journal to write down her side effects, etc., so she can talk to her doctor about tweaking her pre-meds. Everybody reacts a little differently, but they've got LOTS of drugs to manage the side effects, so she shouldn't be shy about getting her side effect meds changed if needed.
In the chemotherapy category of BC.org's discussion boards, there are separate threads for each month that chemo starts. So there's always a group of women who are going through the same thing at the same time. You might steer your mom towards that.
I'm still friends with about a dozen women who all started chemo in October 2005. We meet every year for a long weekend visit. We've been to Chicago, Las Vegas and Seattle. This year is our fifth anniversary and we're going to Nova Scotia!
We're from all over the world: United States, Canada, Australia, Britain and Israel. And although two of our four triple-neg girls have had second primary tumors, we're all still kicking! <grin>
--CindyMN
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Just an update. Evidently Mom was on antibiotics for a couple of weeks for the inflammation and it didn't reduce and in fact continued growing. (I wasn't aware of the antibiotics but I'll admit that as soon as I heard about the inflammation I started thinking IBC.) Pet Scan came back with the breast and lymph node hot spots and an additional salivary gland hot spot (score of 7). Mom has convinced herself that the additional gland is just an infection and, according to her neighbor that went with her at the appointment, the doctor said that 'could' be a very 'slight' possibility. He's not going to biopsy as he doesn't think it'll give any additional information. He did say that she's at least IIIb and possibly in Stage IV.
IBC was confirmed (visually) by the surgeon and her oncologist. She finally got her initial visit with the oncologist scheduled for 1/15. Had a port put in 1/22 (amidst quite the snow storm) and is slated to start chemo tomorrow. It looks like she's going to get weekly Taxol with Carboplatin every 4th week for the next 6 months. Based on the research I've done, this seems like an odd dosage/frequency but I'm trying to trust the doctor on this one since my Mom is comfortable with him and has told me to stop asking so many questions. I am glad that he didn't go the traditional AC/T route since she has a long history of hypertension including high blood pressure and high cholesterol. As I indicated before, she has a lot of health issues (gastro, arthritis, osteopenia, obese according to BMI, hypertension, back problems) so I think he's trying to take it easy on her.
So, now we're in a wait and see mode. The whole thing makes me antsy since I feel that we only really have one chance to make this right. They'll reevaluate her in MRI results in 3 months to see how everything is working.
Speaking of MRI's, she had a breast MRI done last week (for which we don't yet have results) and seems to have had a lot of problems from it. She's said that her ribs feel like they're either cracked or broken or she's torn cartilege(sp) from having to put all her weight on them on the table. It was so bad that they had to have my Dad bring her pain pills during the procedure. Is that normal and is there any other test that can be run? Would a normal MRI be as effective and less painful for her?
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