Chemo Brain

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I am four months into remission from IBC and am experiencing extensive chemo brain.  No short term memory, complete lack of attention and focus. Inability to concentrate if there is chaos going on around me.  I can only do and think about one thing at a time.  Sometimes I just want to scream out, shut up, turn that darn TV down among other things.I "lose" words if I try to carry on a conversation, I feel like my brain needs to be defragged so it can find the files quicker.  I carry two books in my purse...one a calendar and the other a notebook and I must write everything down.  The things I need to do and the things I have done or I will forget I have done them.  Is anyone out there experiencing this problem???

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  • eastender
    eastender Member Posts: 29
    edited November 2009

    Ah yes chemo brain.  I am right there with you!  I hate it with a passion.  I am a medical receptionist during the day and a mom after hours...lol  I get home and like you want to say turn off the *&^*& TV, the head it not clear, I loose words during conversations and forget simple jobs at work..I am at a loss of what to do!

  • havehope
    havehope Member Posts: 503
    edited November 2009
    Same here. I finished chemo at the end of May and I am still having problems. Unfortunately for me I got Lyme disease in August so it just added extreme fatigue. I hope my brain will come back soon. Laughing
  • smithlme
    smithlme Member Posts: 1,322
    edited November 2009

    I ended chemo in August of 2007 and I still have chemo brain. I am in a study at Stanford on the emotional and cognitive effects of chemo on the brain. It was a 4 hour appointment with a brain MRI at the end. Since there wasn't any testing prior to my diagnosis and chemo, it's hard to judge, on paper, what the true effects are. I'm now at the part where I do "games" on my computer to see how my brain learns new things. I'm hoping my participation will help someone, somewhere...

    Linda

  • beergirl
    beergirl Member Posts: 334
    edited November 2009

    Yes! I also carry a pocket calendar and notebook all the time just like you. I also carry a notebook for my handicapped son because I try to help him keep up with appointments and things. I am hoping it will get better...maybe some day. Oh, I need to add that it has been 15 months since the end of my chemo tx. Also, after taking Armour Thyroid for many years, I had to switch to a synthetic substitute. It doesn't work nearly as well and that affects the thinking process also.

  • Estepp
    Estepp Member Posts: 6,416
    edited November 2009

    Mine is terrible.  I pray it goes away. My Onco. does not think it is chemo brain. ( I doubt he even believes in it) He says... when you are thrown into menopause... and all estrogen is gone... that causes the brain/memory issues...

  • lbrewer
    lbrewer Member Posts: 766
    edited November 2009

    It is areal condition, protected by the Americans with Disabiliies Act (ADA).  Brain scans actually show changes in the affected.  Some doctors have found stimulants like Ritalin help.

  • eastender
    eastender Member Posts: 29
    edited November 2009

    Ritalin - that was good to see that post.  I have just had my PCP write an RX for me.  It is a low dose I will give it a couple of weeks and I will let everyone know.

  • Chaparrita
    Chaparrita Member Posts: 35
    edited November 2009

    I went crazy trying to find things to stimulate my brain, Sudoku, Lumosity web site and so on.  But the more I read the more I am finding out that chemo brain is actually considered "brain damage" and that the frontal lobe of our brain is smaller after chemo.  Not such heartening news, I know.  I tried to explain this to my doctor and beings he sees cancer patients all day you think he would understand, no, he just put me on Elavil for depression, I am NOT depressed.  However I have found that compensating for my chemo brain helps, explaining to my family that I can only deal with one thing at a time and writing every single thing down helped me to eliminate the some of the confusion and chaos in my life.

    Good luck, Be Blessed

  • Chaparrita
    Chaparrita Member Posts: 35
    edited November 2009

    Thank you so much for your reply.  If only I can get my cancer doctor to prescribe it for me.  I dont really have a General Practitioner Doctor, I had no insurance when I got cancer and had not had insurance for 11 years, so I didnt see anyone.  I just need something to help "defrag" my brain so it can find my files faster  Wink

    Once again, thank you for being there

    Be Blessed

  • Chaparrita
    Chaparrita Member Posts: 35
    edited November 2009

    Why do these doctors not believe us???  It does frustrate me thatI can't get them to acknowledge that I have chemo brain.  I have a plan....  to take a copy of the (ooops lost the word)  ........symposium on this web site and to print ya'lls comments about Ritalin and such and then to take these to my cancer doctor, kind a like, proof. 

  • cmsreece
    cmsreece Member Posts: 1
    edited November 2009

    Chaparrita, I understand your frustration.  My oncologist just acts like its no big deal.  Thankfully, I have a psychiatrist who listens and believes me.  I take Adderral for ADD and it helps with the chemo brain a little but I still feel like I'm scatterbrained, I forget a lot of things, I can't think of words or names all the time.  I even had to resign my job because it required so much multitasking.  I finished chemo in Nov. of 2007 and I'm still coping with it.  I live in AL also if you'd like to swap numbers or something.  I need support.  I hope you see this.

  • cookiegal
    cookiegal Member Posts: 3,296
    edited November 2009

    Ok I will admit this is the most terrifying thread for me. I already have ADD.

    I have an oncotype score of 22. I am so worried with chemo my ADD will get worse and leave me unable to work.

    I have some discretion on whether I do chemo, and when I read this it makes me think it may be a mistake. It would get me a 6-7 percent benefit interms of distant recurrance.

    My onc says I am already used to compensating, so I will be better able to cope. I thought I had made peace with my decision to do the chemo, but reading this, I really don't know.

    I don't know. This really scares me.

  • cookiegal
    cookiegal Member Posts: 3,296
    edited November 2009

    So here is my question...at what point in tx's did you realize the chemo brain was severe. For example, if I have one or two tx's will I have a sense that there is a problem soon enought to stop?

  • Chaparrita
    Chaparrita Member Posts: 35
    edited November 2009

    Hey cookiegal, I think I was so out of it during chemo that I didnt notice the chemo brain.  Its when I stopped chemo and went into remission that I noticed it.  While in chemo I thought it was the side effects of chemo.  I really began to notice it when the fog cleared from the weekly chemo.  I dont mean to scare you, I am just looking for answers from others who have it.  I am beginning to think that a low dose of Ritalin may help or so I have read on this web site.  Good luck and God Bless

  • Chaparrita
    Chaparrita Member Posts: 35
    edited November 2009

    cmsreece,

     Oh, I thank the Lord above someone else has this and I can talk to you about it cause no one understands what it is like unless they have it.  As I said my onc just acts like I am depressed, I say "huh" no way.  I am not sure what to do to get the point across to him and this is frustrating me so much.  I see you are in Pell City, I am in Alabaster, quite a ways away from you.  I'm not quite sure how to do it but I will try to e mail you, OK?

    May you be Blessed Chaparrita

  • Chaparrita
    Chaparrita Member Posts: 35
    edited November 2009

    Thank you so much, everyone who replies to my post on chemo brain, I appreciate your time and thoughfulness.

  • cookiegal
    cookiegal Member Posts: 3,296
    edited November 2009

    Dont worry, you didn't scare me, was already scared about this.

    I like Concerta better than Ritalin. It works longer. I take 2+36 mg.

    There is no harm in trying, if you do not need it , it will have no effect. If it works, you needed it. There is a tendency to underdose adults, I was on too low a dose for a long time.

    Since Chemo is still elective for me, I really wonder if it's the right choice.

    My cancer councelor thinks the CMF(which I will likely have) may cause less damage than the newer drugs, so I am keeping my fingers crossed and praying on this.

    UPDATE...so I spent the day researching this. I think there is one report that says if you have a problem before chemo you may be more likely to have long lasting or severe chemo brain.

    I guess the good news is that my hospital has a phd researcher who specialises in the cognative impact of breast cancer treatment. I called and left a message saying that I really want to meet with him before I see oncologist on Tuesday, so keep your fingers crossed for me!

    here is a link

    Microsoft PowerPoint - Ahles-Survivors Conference 6-17a-Ahles

  • navygirl
    navygirl Member Posts: 886
    edited November 2009

    I find it very frustrating that I am not the person I was before chemo. I used to be able to keep 5 different projects running at the same time, recall things most would have to write down, concentrate no matter what else was going on around me. It's just not so anymore. I have to work much slower, make lists, check and recheck myself -only to find I still make stupid mistakes -which is very out of character for me. I hate chemo brain. I hate my chemo body just as much. I realize with an OncoDX score of 49 I had no choice but to do chemo, I just wish once we were done with treatment that the treatment would be done with us!!!

  • Mother4
    Mother4 Member Posts: 1
    edited November 2009

    I'm so frustrated, 7 rounds of chemo done one more to go.  My diagnosis is serious but IM so fed up with all of the side effects. When I say I have chemo brain, my husband just tells me your being silly its nothing it will go away. I guess I have been fighting the battle so hard I haven't had time to be angry and now all of sudden I'm mad as hell at all that my body has gone through and all that I still have to face! Radiation is the next step in "My Adventure" and Im tired, my body and mind are wrecked- everyone is so excited for me that chemo is almost over and I feel like this adventure will never end.

  • navygirl
    navygirl Member Posts: 886
    edited November 2009

    mother, I know it's hard...especially when you get to the point where you wonder if you have the strength to see it through. I wish your husband "got" it...but unfortunately, very few people who haven't been there can comprehend the depths of wear and tear and fatigue that comes over us. I barely made it through chemo with my energy and will power in tact, I can only imagine how it must be to have radiation as the next step. I have no magic potion to tell you of that will give you strength enough to pull you through. All I can offer is sympathy and prayers that the road is not as long as it seems at this moment. ((((hugs)))) 

  • Chaparrita
    Chaparrita Member Posts: 35
    edited November 2009

    mother4,

     I so do understand, I get frustrated because once chemo was over everyone expected me to be the same and they do not really understand when I try to explain, ooooh slow down and talk to me about only one thing at a time.  Or turn off the radio when you talk to me or get off the cell so I can focus on you.  Because I look the same and have no outward appearance of any problems they just assume I am the same, ha, in this 40 pounds more body!

     Unfortunately your husband will never understand this, its like suffering in silence.  We cope, we adapt and try to move on and just deal with it.  The NEW US.

  • Chaparrita
    Chaparrita Member Posts: 35
    edited November 2009

    Navygirl,

     I also was so multitasked.  I have two college degrees, was on the Dean's list and now I think I am in the Mentally Challeneged department  Undecided  In some ways learning to cope is ok, I am beginning to take life slower and more methodical.  Where I used to race around I now meander and sometimes see the finer things or at least have time to notice them.  I am finding out that Thanksgiving is challenging me.  Its so much chaos in my mind along with the pending Christmas shopping.  Trying to plan it is slow going, I have written so much down to do and buy but am having a very hard time actually putting this into action. Another side effect, or so I have read.  Today told my family about it and how they need to pull it all together for me.  We'll see what happens..................Peace to you

  • cookiegal
    cookiegal Member Posts: 3,296
    edited November 2009

    Ok, I had a long chat with my MD about chemo brain today, and to be honest he didn't know much. His only suggestion is since I am already on the max dose of meds, maybe that will do the trick.

    My hospital has a psychologist who specializes in cognative damage from BC treatment, I am seeing him on the 10th. I will not make my chemo decision without that consult.

    Question-- did any of you have CMF?

  • flash
    flash Member Posts: 1,685
    edited November 2009

    Cookie,

    so far we know:  IQ doesn't change.  What does change is the executive functions are slower. Having experienced it;   You think differently to retrieve information.  

     There has not been a lot of research regarding between the different chemos but the women I know who did CMF did not seem to be changed as much.  It also definitely does change with time. Knowing you, do the research but make sure it's newer research and accurate for stats.  Yes, I still think it's the way to go for you. I'll be interested to hear what the psychologist says.  Is he only a psychologist or a neuropsychologist?

    Just my $ .02.

  • revkat
    revkat Member Posts: 763
    edited November 2009

    Just to offer a little bit of hope to those who are just over or in the midst of chemo -- I noticed a serious decline in my cognitive functioning during and right after chemo, but I have also notice significant improvement in the past month or two. I was one of those whose chemo put her into menopause plus I'm on tamoxifen which also is associated with cognitive decline so it was a big shock to suddenly not be able to crank out 2000 works in 4 hours or to be able to speak extemporaneously and to have serious word-finding problems. But it has improved. Still need to write things down and check those notes when memory is involved, but I'm doing much better with stopping mid-sentence having lost not just the word but the threat of my thought all together. I can now do the Washington Post crossword most days, though I have to write the vertical answers out horizontally.

    I loved my hair, my mind, my arm strength. BC attacked them all.

  • cookiegal
    cookiegal Member Posts: 3,296
    edited November 2009

    hi flash, no he is just a psychologist. There is a link above to his powerpoint presentation!!!

    His conclusions seem to be that there are other factors at play, but at the very least it will make me less anxious and to be honest, I don't expect this oncologist to have time to go around and around on this.

    To be honest I kind of think Sloan may have a lil institutional bias towards being skeptical about chemo brain. But hey, if my brain goes on the fritz at least I will have someone to talk to.

  • cookiegal
    cookiegal Member Posts: 3,296
    edited November 2009

    OK gals, I tried to talk a lot about this at my oncologist appointment. I saw both a "fellow" and my onc.

    To be honest they are somewhat dismissive of chemo brain. I mentioned the Stanford brain imaging study and the fellow said (in a British accent) "do you really expect a study with 28 people to change how we treat hundreds of thousands of women."

    I said I appreciate what you are saying, but to be honest I think the medical establishment is a bit slow on this.

    But I only have one little brain and I need to defend it.

    I will say I mentioned my concerns about driving, it's allready a challenge, and if my add got worse I'm not sure I could handle a commute at all. 

    That seemed to make it less abstract.

    I'll be honest this has become the top consideration in my chemo decision. 

  • flash
    flash Member Posts: 1,685
    edited November 2009

    cookie,

    I drove all the time with "chemo brain"  Driving is not the problem.  Sometimes I would forget how to get where I wanted to be.  Solution: GPS.  Worked every time.

    hugs

  • flash
    flash Member Posts: 1,685
    edited November 2009

    PS.  Yes, I did the CT- NYC commute in rush hour.

  • Chaparrita
    Chaparrita Member Posts: 35
    edited November 2009

    Hey ya'll-

    Thanks again for all the time you take to discuss this problem.  I am somewhat concerned in that I hear a lot of ya'll getting "beat around the bush" answers from different kinds of doctors, that is exactly how I feel about the doctors I deal with.  Chemo brain, It is real and I am experiencing it!!

    However, Cookiegal, I would love to know what your psychologist has to say about the cognitive damage it causes.  And what is CMF???j  And thank you for making me smile  Wink

    I also set out to go to the store or somewhere (with a list of course) and drive right past the darn place, have to turn around and go back.  Finally, get to the store, go home and then didnt even get what I originally went for, with a list!  I am getting better at laughing at this when it happens, helps me not to stress out too but I sure do waste a lot of gas lately.

    Chaparrita

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