Tocotrienols

seaotter · October 2009

WOW. Thank you Timothy and Fairy for posted all that research Kiss . I bought the NSI palm oil from Vitacost. I have not received it yet. Is it the good stuff????

Timothy what a great husband!!!!!!

Patty

deni63 · November 2009

LIfe Extension also has a formula. It is more expensive but it looks like a good balance. Any opinions?

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item00559/Gamma-E-Tocopherol-Tocotrienols.html

fairy49 · November 2009

Deni, I liked the look of that one too, it seems to have the right balance.

L

deni63 · November 2009

Thanks Fairy. Which one do you take (if you don't mind me asking)?

fairy49 · November 2009

Deni, its one by Solaray, its a liquid form in a dropper, but its ratio's are off from what I can see.

L

ox

everyminute · November 2009

For those taking tocotrienols ...I am going to add this - do you (still) take Fish oil as well or is that completely different?

lrsreyes · November 2009

Fairy49,

you have a lot of knowledge on Tocotrienols as a breast cancer prevention. I am already taking 120mg since all I read good things about it & when i google coconut oil, palm oil comes out too. Since coconut oil is in abundance in the old country (future home) I wonder if it is as effective as palm oil in cancer prevention.

robyn33 · November 2009

everyminute--

I take the tocotrienols and still take other forms of omega 3's like fish oil. I don't think it could hurt, could it???

Luna5 · November 2009

Fairy and Timothy....Is it important for us to find tocotrienols without soy or do we just not worry about the soy????? I found this Unique E Tocotrienols at http://acgrace.com/tocotrienols.html when I googled tocotrienols without soy. Ya'll know more about this than I do, so please tell me what you think because I have been off Vit E fior quite a while and need to start back asap. Which brand do you recommend? Thanks.

Husband11 · November 2009

Luna5, I followed that link and read the blurb about Unique E.

UNIQUE E® Tocotrienols - Each beef softgel capsule contains High-Delta and Gamma Tocotrienols derived from the Annatto Bean and contains the highest concentrates of tocotrienols at 125 mg per gel capsule. Unlike products derived from palm or rice bran oil our tocotrienols contain no tocopherols - which have been shown to inhibit assimilation of tocotrienols in the body. Taking them separately achieves maximum benefits. Our health professionals recommend taking tocotrienols with the evening meal. Tocotrienols help maintain healthy cholesterol levels. Research indicates that they may also contribute to improving vascular and cardiometabolic integrity and help support a healthy cardiovascular system and normal blood glucose levels in pre-diabetic health. Available in a 60-capsule bottle size.

Tim again:

It seems their point of promotion is that it doesn't contain tocopherals at all. It states the position that tocopherols inhibit tocotrienols. I'm not sure what weight to put on that statement. May have some degree of truth, but its hard to evaluate how much influence tocopherols may have on tocotrienols. The epidemiological data (population based analysis) shows consumption of vitamin E rich foods is beneficial. Vitamin E rich foods would be predominently alpha tocopherols (roughtly 80% for some nuts) and yet still be beneficial. So how detrimental is it to consume tocopherols? Some of the tocopherols, I believe delta and gamma, do have anti-cancer properties. Until someone has done human studies, its impossible to evaluate the accuracy of that point of promotion. Maybe an improved product, maybe not.

I can say that the palm oil derived fractions are well studied, probably the best studied, likely owing to the promotion of the manufacturor and the Malaysian Palm Oil Board (who obviously have a vested interest in seeing this product have an application and take off in sales). Personally, I'd go with the most studied fraction, palm oil. I notice both Tocomin Suprabio & Life extension all use tocomin's palm oil fraction. Twinlab uses rice derived tocotrienols. I'd rather hitch my wagon to the product with the most well studied mixture (tocomin palm). Could the other be better? Possibly, but I prefer the sure thing over the speculative. The tocomin products are reasonably priced. Bev is taking 3x daily the 60mg NSI tocomin suprabio. I am taking one daily. I believe it was around $14.00 per bottle plus $5.00 shipping for any number of products from vitacost. I also ordered time release melatonin from vitacost. The price was better than we can get locally.

Bottom line is that its guesswork. But as I mention above, I prefer strategies that are studied and have some evidence base over those that are less studied. I'd go with the Life extension of Vitacosts NSI tocomin suprabio. They both look like good values as well. The Vitacost is lower strength per capsule, but lower priced.

Luna5 · November 2009

Thank you, Timothy. Like I said, you know more than I about this, which is why I wanted your opinion. Thank you for taking so much time on this to help me out. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us!

Husband11 · December 2009

fairy49, I reread the post you made regarding this study:

Suppression of cell proliferation and gene expression by combinatorial synergy of EGCG, resveratrol and gamma-tocotrienol in estrogen receptor-positive MCF-7 breast cancer cells.

I want to add that the best source of the seemingly mysterious substance (at least to me is was), EGCG, is green tea. So it would seem green tea, resveratol and tocotrienols have a synergistic effect.

deni63 · December 2009

That is good to hear, TImothy, as I take all three of those substances everyday. We drink at least 5 cups of green tea daily, which we have come to love.

fairy49 · December 2009

Hi Timothy, it does seem that way, I do the green tea and the gamma tocotrienols by Life Extension, but I don't do reserveratol as yet, I have read a lot of conflicting reports on it and I am not sure........

L

Husband11 · December 2009

It does sound like resveratol has potential risks and needs more study. My very brief look into the subject mentions some controversy regarding its estrogenic properties. Its that same problem as soy, flax and others... friend or foe?

deni63 · December 2009

My ND prescribed Resveratrol for me back in May and I have been taking it since. They use it in their practice as a part of the regimen for all of their cancer patients. Lots of people are having amazing success with the supplement / IV C regimen. I see my ND in a couple of weeks and will ask his take on all of the conflicting info about Resveratrol.

fairy49 · December 2009

Exactly the same problem as phytoestrogens, soy, flax etc, I posted a big report on Soy on I think the natural girls thread, it makes sense to take soy and flax, but part of me is still not sure, dilema!! My ND says avoid soy and flax, I will ask her about resversatrol when I see her in a couple of weeks.

L

Fantomia · December 2009

I've been in the same dilemma as you Thimothy - buying the product that is done research on or the one that contains the most efficient part of the tocotrienols. All the research conclude that delta tocotrienols are the most efficient tocotrienol, and to find out that they have had to separate the 4 parts or? And no research I've read says that the other parts is necessary in synergy, or do things the delta and gamma do not to. So I ended up with tocotrienols form annatto seeds, witch contains 90 % delta tocotrienols, and the rest gamma, witch was shown to be the 2^nd most active part...

cmlai · December 2009

Fantomia, each form of tocotrienol has its unique health benefits and none of the single form is considered as "most efficient".

Not all tocotrienols are the same - manufacturing process, ratio of the various tocotrienols, science, etc. The profile/ratio of tocotrienols from annatto is not a full spectrum tocotrienol complex as it contains 90% of the delta form, minimal gamma-tocotrienol and nothing else. As we know, alpha- and gamma-tocopherol; alpha- and gamma-tocotrienol are also beneficial.

Unique E is based on annatto tocotrienol extracted from annatto seed. It is specifically being promoted for cholesterol health. The irony of all this is that the published papers (scientific reference) of this product were carried out on the whole palm tocotrienol complex - that consists of alpha, beta, gamma and delta-tocotrienol, instead of a single isomer (delta-tocotrienol). The literature that mentioned tocopherol inhibits tocotrienol was a study on cholesterol reduction, and it happens when the tocopherol to tocotrienol ratio exceeds 30% in composition. whether the same effect applies to breast cancer inhibition or any other mechanism, I have not come across those literatures.

Allow me to share with you the differences between Tocomin full spectrum mixed tocotrienol complex and annatto tocotrienol:

1. Annatto tocotrienol is extracted from annatto seeds via a process involving organic solvents. Tocomin does not use any organic solvents in its process. It is all by physical means - molecular distillation.

2. Annatto tocotrienol is not a full spectrum mixed tocotrienol complex. The trend in the market now is moving towards taking what nature makes - the full spectrum instead of a single entity. Time and time again, we have seen reports of "no health effect" of single entity products. On the other hand, Tocomin contains high levels of gamma, alpha and delta tocotrienol, with about 3-4% of beta tocotrienol.

3. Annatto tocotrienol does not have a published scientific paper. Almost all studies on the health benefits of tocotrienol have been carried out with the full spectrum palm tocotrienol complex. Annatto tocotrienol is using "borrowed science"!

Now, going back to the topic on why delta-tocotrienol is NOT the "most effective", "most efficient" or "most potent" form of tocotrienol, we turn to peer-reviewed research publications/journals for the science of other tocotrienol forms :

i) Alpha-tocotrienol - Based on our on-going NIH-funded study and in collaboration with the Ohio State University Medical Center - Prof. Chandan Sen has proven and published 5 peer-reviewed papers which proved that alpha-tocotrienol is the most potent in preventing stroke-induced injuries to the brain.

ii) Gamma-tocotrienol - Based on a recent palm tocotrienol and cardioprotection study from the University of Connecticut School of Medicine, gamma-tocotrienol is the most potent for cardioprotection. Carotech supplied the individual tocotrienols and also Tocomin full spectrum tocotrienol complex for the study. There are studies which showed that gamma-tocotrienol was as potent as delta-tocotrienol in inhibiting HMG-CoA Reductase for cholesterol reduction.

iii) Delta-tocotrienol - Based on the studies at the University of Texas - delta-tocotrienol is the most potent in inhibiting breast cancer cells. But, another study showed gamma-tocotrienol is 3 times more powerful than Tamoxifen in stopping multiplication of breast cancer cells. When used together (Tamoxifen and gamma-tocotrienol), the effect was 45 times more effective than using Tamoxifen alone. This shows that tocotrienols and Tamoxifen could have a synergistic effect when used together in breast cancer therapy. Prof. Paul Sylvester at the University of Louisiana also showed that gamma-tocotrienol inhibits the growth and division of breast cancer cells.

On other cancers, published research from the East Tennessee University and MD Anderson Cancer Center, Texas - showed that gamma-tocotrienol was the most potent in inhibiting prostate cancer cells.

What I am saying is that based on recent science, delta-tocotrienol is not the "most" effective form of all tocotrienols. One needs to take the full spectrum tocotrienol complex as each isomer of tocotrienol works best in different part of the body and most important is that all of them work synergistically as a team to confer the maximum and optimum health benefits - as found in nature. Taking what nature produce is the best way for supplementation.

Best wishes for the new year.

Husband11 · December 2009

Thanks cmlai. Any update on the Malaysian study on breast cancer? I would love to know more details of the success they achieved by combining tocotrienols with tamoxifen therapy.

cmlai · December 2009

MPOB informed that the study is now submitted to BMC Cancer and is currently under review.

MsBliss · January 2010

Actually Merilee, you are right to be suspicious of people selling things to us, but in this case, you are mistaken. Tocotrienols have dozens of studies completed and many underway. Even my oncologist supports it's use for those on tomoxifen and those of us who are triple negative. Whleong did not try and hide his identity and simply supplied an extract for a thread that was already in discussion. The data is valid and extremely promising and given that it is not like a patentable drug, protected for marketing purposes, I applaud the contribution.

nextstepsfromhere · January 2010

Thanks for your information. I have bc and have been through the whole nine yards...there is a whole new level of anxiety when you are finished with treatment and worried about recurrence. I am definitely going to try the Tocomin Suprabio. I have a 2 and 4 year old that I plan to see grow up.

Thanks for your research, it is time consuming, and I don't have the energy for it, so I am glad that you have a good lead on something. I too want some natural resources to work with my doctor provided drugs.... Thanks. ~Leslie

francesca10 · January 2010

I am searching for natural remedies for her+ bc--just had a bilmas---I have a very fragile liver--does anyone know where these natural drugs timothy writes about are meatbolized?? I have not gotten all my info yet but it looks like arominase is what will be picked for me and I am scared to lose all the estrogen-prog protection I have now---although how they know it's too much without counts blows my mind.....

Husband11 · January 2010

francesca10: I would have thought that if you are HER2+ that you would be prescribed herceptin, and not an aromatase inhibitor, which is meant for ER+. Are you also ER+?

My understanding is that tocotrienols have been shown in the test tube to attack both ER+ and ER- breast cancers, but their safety if your liver is compromised should be discussed with your oncologist, and if the hospital has a nutritional consultant, with him or her.

Fantomia · January 2010

Clmai: Thanks for you information :-) - here are my thoughts on the subject:

My formulation of delta tocotrienols being the most efficient was I little hasty - I meant on breast cancer of course, witch is my concern since I have no problems with heart or cholesterol.

I know the research is done on palm tocotrienols, and according to the supposed synergy effect of the four isomers - they separated the isomers to decide the effect on each isomer in the research.

In the research I have read I've learned that tocotrienols from palm oil had effect on both MDA-MB-231 cells (witch are estrogen-unresponsive) and ERpositive MCF7 cell lines. However, the gamma- and delta-fractions were the most inhibitory. Complete inhibition of MCF7 cell growth was achieved at 6 microg/mL of gammaT3/deltaT3 in the absence of estradiol and 10 microg/mL of deltaT3 in the presence of estradiol. For complete growt suppression of the MDA-MB-231-line 20 microgr/ml was needed. By contrast alphaT had no inhibitory effect on MCF7 cell growth in either the presence or the absence of estradiol, nor on MDA-MB-231 cell growth.

My lump was ER+, so I am of course most interested in the effect on the MCF7 cell lines, and to get near 10 microg/mL of gammaocotrienol/delta-tocotrienols in blood would not be possible with palm tocotrienols as they have so little delta and gamma T3. But MAYBE there are a synergic effect, and it could be wise to take one of each.

But still, Tocotrienols from Anatto seeds is just as natural as T3 ‘s from palm oil - it just have a different profile.

The best thing with tocotrienols is that they showed increased effect over time. :-)

Mia

Yazmin · January 2010

Mia: Thank you for this great information. Would you mind sharing which brand of tocotrienol you are using?

Fantomia · February 2010

You're very welcome Yazmin :-)

I have used 3 different brands that are very similar - all from annatto seeds (I found them all on iHerb), the content in the former was identical, the one I take now is Unique E Tocotrienol from A.C. Grace Company because it's a little more than double as strong, so I only take one (I took 2 of the former brands, one of them was from Allergy Research I remember)This amount equals the concentration in the research I mean I've calculated, but maybe the more the better isn't necessarily true and I go back to the former and take only one pill. I've started Budwiging and she don't recommend high amounts of antioxidants (except from food), but I think I will at least continue to take one of the weaker ones a day.

trigeek · March 2010

Ok I read through the posts and am kinda lost (give it to Femara brain lol..) I have Tocomin Suprabio which has 60 mg total tocotrienols... 1 or 2 a day for met protection ?

Thanks so much for humoring me !

Husband11 · March 2010

3-4x a day of the 60mg will put you into the recommended range, but this isn't scientific. Bev is taking 3x of the 60's from Tocomin. I believe 200mg/day was a recommendation I read, so that's why I say 3-4 daily to straddle that dosage. I'm taking one a day, as I believe it has other potential benefits. Only side effect seems to be another product to order and pay for.

Tocotrienols

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