help with treatment options after bilateral mastectomies
This is my first time on the board. I am 40 years old and was diagnosed with DCIS (grade 3) on Sept. 19, 2009. I had bilateral mastectomies on Oct. 2. The SNB came back clean, but the pathology report showed a single focus micro invasion 1 mm. The IDC is grade 2. My hormone receptor status is ER+ (10%), PR + (5%), and Her 2 pos, 3+. I will see the oncologist for the first time on Oct. 19th, but am trying to figure out what my options may be beforehand.
Comments
-
I have not heard of tamoxifen increasing the chance of ovarian cancer. It does increase slightly the chance for uterine cancer - but even with increased chance is still quite rare. Also, it is easy to screen for and generally treatable if caught early.
My onc adviced against ooph unless absolutely necessary because if estrogen is decreased too much, quality of life may decrease. He specifically warned against cognitive decline if estrogen is decreased to the lowest levels.
Besides protecting your bones, zometa decreases the chance of recurrence by about 1/3. If you decide to go on tamoxifen, it is very important that you have your CYP2D6 gene type tested first. I will post some info on that for you.
-
-
Thanks Orange. I have been researching non-stop and I am planning on having this test done if the onc. suggests tamox. What about zoladex (goserelin) with zometa as an alternative to tamox? Do you think I may need chemo? I have so many questions.
-
Amy, I'm sorry you're here, but hope you find the support and advice that will be helpful. Are you being treated with Herceptin? If so, it usually goes hand-in-hand with chemo.
-
Hi Carolina
Thank you so much for your support
I will see the oncologist in 2 more days and am trying to wait and see what he has to say before doing any more research. I got myself pretty worked up surfing the internet for possible treatments. I'm not sure if I will need chemo since I only had a single focus micro invasion of 1 mm. I have heard all about Herceptin and the side effects seem scary. Orange1 has also been extremely helpful in her posts about Her2 and Tamoxifen. If the doctor suggests Tamox, I will definitely get the test first. Any info about Herceptin without chemo? Or maybe taking one ovary to bring down the estrogen? Mine is only weakly positive - 10%.
-
By the way, the type of surgery you had doesn't usually effect the decision on whether to have chemo. Chemo goes after cancer cells that may have already escaped the breast.
Recurrence with HER2+ is pretty high without chemo even when the tumor is less than 1 cm. That is why I'm glad that I decided to have chemo. There was a retrospective study on recurrence in women who didn't have chemo with node negative tumors less than 1 cm by MD Anderson with results presented at SABCS in Dec 2008. Recurrence for HER2+ was 23% and distant recurrence was about 15%. They didn't separate out hormone positive and hormone negative. Hormone positive would have a bit lower recurrence and hormone negative a bit more.
There isn't any data that indicates how effective Herceptin without chemo would be. There is a study underway for women with small tumors taking just Taxotere and Herceptin.
The BCIRG 006 study tested AC-T, AC-TH and TCH chemo. The second interim analysis presentation can be found at:
http://www.bcirg.org/Internet/Studies/BCIRG+006.htm
It gives information on the effectiveness and side effects. The side effects were much less for TCH and long term heart risk was much lower. Both were about equally effective. For node negative women (the study only included women with tumors greater than 1 cm), recurrence was 7%.
-
Hi Amy, I think all the info on the internet can be overwhelming. On the other hand, it's good to go into your oncology appt. well-informed so that you can ask questions about the recommended tx. Because HER2+ cancer is so aggressive, I'm glad I did everything I could to combat it. My situation was a little different because after diagnosing DCIS/IDC in my right breast, further testing found DCIS in my left breast as well (the pathology report from the left mastectomy showed much more DCIS than was shown on the breast MRI or the MRI-guided biopsy). My breast surgeon and the oncologist both felt that these were two separate cancers, not a recurrence. I felt like I had to go with the most aggressive tx available. It wasn't easy, but I don't regret it.
-
I posted this in Oncotype and Her2, but since I was so desperate a couple of days ago and posted my worries in different places, I thought I'd double post this time in order to thank everyone for all the help.
I really can't thank you enough for all the good advice. The discussion board has definitely given me the information and moral support I've needed to get through this. My oncologist wants to put me on Tamoxifen only. I asked him about the 2D6 test and he said he would find out where I can go to get it, whether my insurance will cover it, and how much it costs. He suggested an ooph if the BRCA comes back positive. He also said Tamox reduces your risk of ovarian cancer, which is very hard to test for. I then spoke to my doctor at the genetics center and she told me I could have the 2D6 test done at the Mayo Clinic or have it sent to a hospital even closer. I sure hope I am an EM! The PM outcome is so terribly daunting. What are your treatment options if you are a PM, I wonder? I feel relieved to have a plan, but I really thought they would be doing more tests to see if the cancer managed to get past my lymph nodes and regular testing for recurrence. He told me that since I was node negative, they only do testing if you have symptoms. He also said if there was a distant recurrence, it would be stage 4 because I'm Her2 pos, 3+. My genetic doctor asked me if I hit him for being so blunt. That part is hard to deal with right now, but I am getting better at focusing on doing everything I can to be healthy. Tomorrow I see my surgeon and, although I actually really liked the onc despite his bluntness, I will ask for a referral to get a second opinion. It couldn't hurt, right??
-
Amy, I got 2nd opinions for all of my surgery and onc. tx. Try to go out of the hospital system you are in to get 2nd opinions. Doctors in the same system are likely to give you similar opinions.
-
That sounds like very, very good advice. Thank you.
-
Amy - I am a huge fan of second opinions. And Carolina's suggestion about going out of your current hospital system is good advice.
-
I saw my surgeon today and he has suggested the Oncotype DX test to see if I would benefit from chemo. He is going to discuss it with my onc. Although my DCIS was 4.5 cm, my IDC was only .1 cm, so this is probably why the onc didn't immediately suggest chemo, but recommended Tamox. My onc also didn't think the Oncotype test was necessary. From reading the posts on the board, it seems that most Her2 pos, 3+ DO have chemo regardless of the tumor size or grade. My DCIS was grade 3, but my IDC is grade 2. Anyone out there with similar circumstances who didn't have chemo, just Tamox?
-
I don't have time to search right now, but I think there are some ongoing studies now to evaluate the benefit of Herceptin for tumors that are <1cm. Here is a link, although this is from 2007.
http://www.cancernetwork.com/publications/oncology-news/display/article/10165/63158
I forgot to mention that although I got second opinions from 2 outside hospital systems, I ultimately received tx from the cancer center where I was initially diagnosed. I had excellent care, and I also felt very reassured that the 2nd opinion doctors concurred with my treating physicians.
-
I thought that the Oncotype test doesn't apply to HER2+ tumors. That is what their site says.
I don't understand how much Tamox will help you since your tumor was 10% ER+ and 5% PR+. Doesn't that mean it is mostly hormone negative?
MD Anderson did a retrospective study on women who didn't get chemo with node-negative tumors less than 1 cm. They reported the results in Dec 2008 at SABCS. Recurrence for HER2+ was 23% and distant recurrence for HER2+ was about 15%. They didn't separate out hormone negative vs postive. Recurrence is usually a bit higher for hormone negative and lower for hormone positive but I'm not sure which group you would be in with a partial hormone positive result.
There was also a University of Glasgow study about small tumors without chemo presented at that same meeting. The poster for it is kind of confusing, but I think it says that 5 of 13 women with HER2+ tumors less than 20 mm (0.2 cm) had recurrences.
There have been some other studies on small HER2+ tumors. Someone posted some graphs on another thread here discussing whether to have chemo.
Studies like these are why some believe that all HER2+ IDC is a candidate for chemo and Herceptin even if the tumor was quite small.
One question is which chemo would you do if you do chemo - they aren't all the same. Ideally, it should be one with the lowest possible long term risk and lower short term side effects. There is a study underway looking at using just Taxotere plus Herceptin. Taxotere, carboplatin and Herecptin is lower risk than AC-TH.
-
20 mm is 2 cm, not 0.2cm. Two centimeters is a pretty typical size for stage 1, not particulary small.
However 1mm is tiny. Also grade 2 have tumors have significantly less chance of recurrence than grade 3 (about 70% of Her2+ tumors are grade 3). I'm not arguing for or against chemo, I can see arguments for both sides. But I doubt most doctors would agree to it or that any insurance would pay.
A second opinion from a highly regarded cancer center will probably be helpful. Do whatever it takes to make you feel comfortable with your decision (I got three opinions)
-
Carolina, Bluedasher, and Orange,
Thank you so much for all your great feedback on treatment options. It's 4 in the morning and I can't sleep thinking about all this. I did some research on the Oncotype test and Her2+. It does seem that the scores tend to be higher if one is Her2/neu, but that also depends on grade, size, and HR status. I don't think it could hurt to have the test. If, by some chance, my score happens to be low, then Tamox alone may work for me, especially since I am ER+. Bluedasher, It appears that positive is positive, even if it's weak, but HT works better the more positive you are. If my Oncotype test score is high, then I decide about chemo which, as Orange said, may not even be covered by my insurance. I really appreciate all the articles, too. Carolina, Thanks for the article and continued support. I wish there were more info for us at this point , but it's still helpful. and Orange, you always give me hope. I would love to get a second opinion at the Mayo Clinic, but my insurance is limited to Indiana and I live just over the border (sigh). I may be able to pay for it out of pocket since I have been saving my pennies, but being out of work this month and having to pay the PS upfront (still fighting that war!), I'm not sure if I can afford the appointment. I am in the middle of a Catch 22 between the State law requiring insurance companies to pay for reconstruction and the State law dictating the guidelines of my insurance policy. They were UNABLE to find me a PS who "participates in the network", so I found an out of network Dr. for this approved, necessary surgery and they are refusing to pay him unless he signs on to the plan. He is refusing to do so and that is his right. However, I am considering begging for his mercy at my appointment tomorrow since hiring a lawyer is not an option for me. I have two sweet kids and I was saving for their college expenses (sigh sigh). Anyone know how much an appointment at the Mayo clinic would cost? You are all very dear. I hope at some point soon I will be able to help others on this board.
-
Amy -
Mayo was relatively inexpensive considering the services. I think my total bill for initial consult and testing (over 3 days) was around $3000 because they look at your already existing test results, slides, mamos, etc and only redo what they feel is necessary. I saw a breast specialist, an oncologist, and a radiation oncologist over three days (saw the breast specialist multiple times). Had mamograms redone and the CYP testing, and I believe they reread my tumor slides. Plus I signed up for some study (non interventional) so they did blood work for that - not sure if my insurance was billed for the study related blood work or not - didn't matter since I had already hit my yearly out of pocket maximum so insurance paid. I'll see if I can find my old bills tonight to confirm. I would guess your bill would be relatively less since you won't need mamograms or to see the radiation oncologist. Plus I think you said you are lining up CYP testing elsewhere. (I went there after lumpectomy, before I knew I would be getting a mastectomy)
I thought they were wonderful. Every appointment with the doctor is an hour (I spent even more time with the breast specialist - also an MD). I never felt rushed. They treated me like an intelligent human being and explained their rationale for the recommendations thouroghly. They patiently answered question after question until I couldn't think of anymore (and I am into technical details and neurotic, so you know I had a lot of questions.) Best of all, I felt like they thought about my individual circumstances and were interested in treating me as an individual, not just as a diagnosis catagory that they applied a cookie cutter approach to.
Since my initial visit I have been back a couple times with follow up questions. I have also called with questions and my onc from Mayo has always called back and was happy to address my questions on the phone - no charge. I go back once in a while for questions for issues that I think need more time, and because I think its fair for them to be paid for their time - plus I am blessed with great insurance.
re: your plastic surgeon and insurance. That sucks. How did it go today?
-
I received a very exciting email from the insurance company this morning and it seems as though they might actually pay up. The PS billing gal dashed my hopes, though, and I did everything I could to keep from crying during my appointment. I knew if I talked to the dr. about the insurance problem I was going to lose it, so I handed him a letter and asked him if he would look it over when he had time. My left breast is swollen for unknown reasons and scabbed from a big blister, so he removed some of the saline and that has helped a bit. He also put me on an antibiotic called Clindamycin Hcl, which has scary side effects, just in case it's an infection. I called the insurance company and it does actually seem hopeful, but I'll believe it when I get my $5000 back! If I do, I'm definitely going to the Mayo clinic for a second opinion. Hopefully around Thanksgiving. I'm going to call them tomorrow.
Categories
- All Categories
- 679 Advocacy and Fund-Raising
- 289 Advocacy
- 68 I've Donated to Breastcancer.org in honor of....
- Test
- 322 Walks, Runs and Fundraising Events for Breastcancer.org
- 5.6K Community Connections
- 282 Middle Age 40-60(ish) Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 53 Australians and New Zealanders Affected by Breast Cancer
- 208 Black Women or Men With Breast Cancer
- 684 Canadians Affected by Breast Cancer
- 1.5K Caring for Someone with Breast cancer
- 455 Caring for Someone with Stage IV or Mets
- 260 High Risk of Recurrence or Second Breast Cancer
- 22 International, Non-English Speakers With Breast Cancer
- 16 Latinas/Hispanics With Breast Cancer
- 189 LGBTQA+ With Breast Cancer
- 152 May Their Memory Live On
- 85 Member Matchup & Virtual Support Meetups
- 375 Members by Location
- 291 Older Than 60 Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 177 Singles With Breast Cancer
- 869 Young With Breast Cancer
- 50.4K Connecting With Others Who Have a Similar Diagnosis
- 204 Breast Cancer with Another Diagnosis or Comorbidity
- 4K DCIS (Ductal Carcinoma In Situ)
- 79 DCIS plus HER2-positive Microinvasion
- 529 Genetic Testing
- 2.2K HER2+ (Positive) Breast Cancer
- 1.5K IBC (Inflammatory Breast Cancer)
- 3.4K IDC (Invasive Ductal Carcinoma)
- 1.5K ILC (Invasive Lobular Carcinoma)
- 999 Just Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastasis
- 652 LCIS (Lobular Carcinoma In Situ)
- 193 Less Common Types of Breast Cancer
- 252 Male Breast Cancer
- 86 Mixed Type Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Not Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastases but Concerned
- 189 Palliative Therapy/Hospice Care
- 488 Second or Third Breast Cancer
- 1.2K Stage I Breast Cancer
- 313 Stage II Breast Cancer
- 3.8K Stage III Breast Cancer
- 2.5K Triple-Negative Breast Cancer
- 13.1K Day-to-Day Matters
- 132 All things COVID-19 or coronavirus
- 87 BCO Free-Cycle: Give or Trade Items Related to Breast Cancer
- 5.9K Clinical Trials, Research News, Podcasts, and Study Results
- 86 Coping with Holidays, Special Days and Anniversaries
- 828 Employment, Insurance, and Other Financial Issues
- 101 Family and Family Planning Matters
- Family Issues for Those Who Have Breast Cancer
- 26 Furry friends
- 1.8K Humor and Games
- 1.6K Mental Health: Because Cancer Doesn't Just Affect Your Breasts
- 706 Recipe Swap for Healthy Living
- 704 Recommend Your Resources
- 171 Sex & Relationship Matters
- 9 The Political Corner
- 874 Working on Your Fitness
- 4.5K Moving On & Finding Inspiration After Breast Cancer
- 394 Bonded by Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Life After Breast Cancer
- 806 Prayers and Spiritual Support
- 285 Who or What Inspires You?
- 28.7K Not Diagnosed But Concerned
- 1K Benign Breast Conditions
- 2.3K High Risk for Breast Cancer
- 18K Not Diagnosed But Worried
- 7.4K Waiting for Test Results
- 603 Site News and Announcements
- 560 Comments, Suggestions, Feature Requests
- 39 Mod Announcements, Breastcancer.org News, Blog Entries, Podcasts
- 4 Survey, Interview and Participant Requests: Need your Help!
- 61.9K Tests, Treatments & Side Effects
- 586 Alternative Medicine
- 255 Bone Health and Bone Loss
- 11.4K Breast Reconstruction
- 7.9K Chemotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 2.7K Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment
- 775 Diagnosed and Waiting for Test Results
- 7.8K Hormonal Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 50 Immunotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 7.4K Just Diagnosed
- 1.4K Living Without Reconstruction After a Mastectomy
- 5.2K Lymphedema
- 3.6K Managing Side Effects of Breast Cancer and Its Treatment
- 591 Pain
- 3.9K Radiation Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 8.4K Surgery - Before, During, and After
- 109 Welcome to Breastcancer.org
- 98 Acknowledging and honoring our Community
- 11 Info & Resources for New Patients & Members From the Team