Did you get covered during radiation treatments?
Hello my dear friends,
I am a Radiation Therapist and I need your help. I am the only female therapist in our department and I am running into a wall with the men. I feel that if you are lying on the table half naked that I can cover you with a pillowcase. The men say NO, that they need to watch you breath or that they feel like peeping toms if they have to look at your tattoos under the pillow case. Many of you have lost your hair, your breast and all of you have had to throw modesty out the window. I need to know if you could have been covered would you have done so and if you were covered during radiation treatment, were you a simple treatment (2 angles or tangents) or a complex treatment (matching fields like superclav and tangents)? It has been standard in the past to leave the treated side uncovered but our Oncologist (a woman) said that the pillowcase does not affect treatment. What is you opinion? Help!
Comments
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How sweet of you to think of this - but, are you aware of how MANY people have been staring at our chests by the time we get to radiation oncology? I have a friend who kept track - 22, by the time she was in chemo - and she had chemo before surgery!
I know that, for me, the mostly fussy attempts at maintaining my modesty made me angry and frustrated. It seems to imply that there is something undesireable about my breasts being out on view. That whole feeling went away when I gave birth - modesty is no longer an issue - as long as you're not filming me
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I think, if anything, it would make me more uncomfortable to have people covering me. It implies that they aren't comfortable.
But, for working with women from other cultures, or for younger women, for whom modesty is still an issue, this would be more of an option - abso-F'ing lutely. You should be sensitive to individual patients' needs.
Now, if you could do something like a shrug to keep patients warm - that I would have loved. I had a long treatment session, and my teeth were chattering every single time. Arm warmers, and a shoulder shrug - yeah, that would have saved my life.
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I've had BC on both sides had the simple treatment in each case. After positioning I was covered with a light cloth, I appreciated it, mostly because it was a bit warmer than nothing.
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I feel pretty much the same way. By the time I started rads I had no modesty left. I was offered a cover most days but was fine with out. I think I was a simple treatment 2 angles. It should always be offered and let the patient make the choice. Rads was a very hard time for me emotionally, its pretty scary. I would say what helped me most was how truly nice everyone was to me.
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It would be nice to be asked our preference........ Tami
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I just finished rads. They lined me up in the middle of my chest (3 tattoos) and then on the side of my breast near my armpit where I had 2 tattoos. Each time I would get on the table taking my sleeve out of the hospital gown and they would cover my chest area immediately with a cotton (sheet like) cloth. The tech would then adjust the cloth to look like a V shape while he lined up my chest area. He would lift up one corner and line up the side of my breast. Right before he left the room he would make sure I was covered.
Oh, he was the only male tech in the department and he always had another tech with him. I would have to guess for liability reasons - 2 people were always in the room with me until the machine was lined up and they would both leave at the same time.
At this point in time, I could have cared less. I have been poked, prodded, on display, etc. However, if you were a modest type then you would have really appreciated the way they handled me and my exposed/non-exposed breast.
The only time I was not fully covered by the cloth was this past week when they did the boost radiation and were pinpointing the exact location of the tumor. They left my breast exposed which was fine with me. I am sure when they are doing the boost radiation, they need to monitor and make sure that you haven't moved on the table, etc. versus doing whole breast radiation.
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The only part that was exposed was my left breast and underarm. The johnny covered the rest. All the techs were female, so it didn't bother me.
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I was an emotional wreck all through rads. It was the dead of winter, and I would have liked to have been totally covered. Although the nurses were in the room to get me positioned, it did bother me that there men behind the scenes. I hated being on display. Although they were wonderful at wrapping my legs in warm towels, I still was shivering. I had a wonderful female rad onc, but still, rads where the worst thing I ever went through. I hated it every single day. If someone would have been asked, that would have been nice. Oh, and the photos they kept taking of me naked and the tatoos also upset me. It has been two years, and I wish every day I had said NO to rads. The whole thing is barbaric and I think we are lied to about the benefits when we are have no nodes and clear margins. For me it was not about modesty, it was about the sense that I was on display.
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I totally agree with you, Please cover me up not because of modesty, but it is so freakin cold in there. I am at this point not shy at all , everyon and their brother has seem my boobs, but it is simple consideration. Sometimes my therapists do cover me and sometimes they do not. whatever. but thanks for the thoughts.
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I think the option should be offered to the patient. What I find offensive is that the male techs say they don't want to cover the patient because of how THEY (the techs) feel about moving the cloth. Excuse me? This is not about you, it is about the patient's feelings. If medical personnel (of any type) is ever bothered by something that makes a patient more comfortable, too bad. Unless it has a negative impact on the treatment then do what the patient wants.
Leah
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I had a men and women while I recieved radiation. The johnny covered up most of me. My right breast was exposed and they always covered me up right when they were done.
This is very sweet of you to ask about. I know it bothers some much more than others. It really bothered me at my first tx, but by the end, they had all seen it all..daily.
Thanks for thinking of us.
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Hello All,
Just wanted to chime in ... I am receiving rads in multiple fields and they cover me. My techs are all female. I find it keeps me warm while in the room.
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I was not covered and was nude from the waist up. It was freezing! Why does it have to be so cold in the treatment room? I always had female therapists which made it much more comfortable. ONE day a substitute tech came from another facility, a young guy... that threw me a curve ball but "we" survived. Sometimes the techs covered my arms with towels but they always slid off as I was shaking so much from the cold. i wondered why I could not have worn the hospital gown with the opening in the front? Then I could have just bared my chest and kept my arms in the sleeves. But I never asked. I saw the need to be exposed and tolerated it.
What I did not like... we breast cancer pts had to undress and put on a gown, then wait in a coed patient waiting room. Often we were sitting there, half nude, with men of all ages in street clothes... not that it would have been any better if they were in hospital gowns too. I was so used to the privacy and "Girls Only" atmosphere of mammogram screening facilities.
PAM
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I have not started rads yet. please tell me I will not be totally nude (someone mentioned their legs being cold) or can you leave on clothes from the waist down? My appointment to talk to the doc about all this is next week, so I'm trying to get all the info I can before then.
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By the time I got to radiation I was so used to people peeking at my boob. I had only one male radiation technician and he was very respectful, as they all were. They were professionals doing their job. At all times I was comfortable in my johnnie with only the important bits exposed. I think my body is special, but for the technicians it's just one of many throughout the day so it never bothered me.
I can understand how the male technicians don't want to keep coming in to take a peek to make sure everything's lined up. I think it would just exacerbate the situation -- covered, uncovered, covered... So I'm with them on keeping the breast uncovered. Also, it would be a pain in the patoutie to have them to keep coming in and out to adjust the pillow case, and take more time. I'd prefer to have the tattoos visible to make sure everything was lined up correctly.
The place I went to had separate women's and men's waiting rooms. That was nice. I got to chat with other women. Lots of compassion all round. I also liked how the technicians asked what music I wanted to hear. One patient had the golden oldies piped in so she could sing along during her radiation!
I think the most important thing is seeing the smiles from the technicians, the gentle chit-chat, that they are relaxed about my partial nudity. And say what they are doing at all times, ie. I just need to shift your body, I need to move you a bit, etc. Makes it more comfortable.
Thank-you for asking our opinions! You are very kind and I'm sure your patients appreciate your thought and consideration.
Elizabeth
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Oh, I did not mean to imply one has to remove the lower half of your clothes! You stay dressed from the waist down. But it is just cold, I wore double socks and either long pants or long skirts. Still freezing!
Pam
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Heehee -- the first time I took everything off and just had the johnnie, undies and socks on -- what did I know? Duh... It was funny when I left and one of the technicians said I could keep my bottom half of clothes on. I just joked that I was an exhibitionist and would keep them on next time.
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Good to know, thanks!
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Yep .. chest was totally exposed for rads, CT and prep for radiation. My techs were mostly female, but male as well. What I didn't like was the male equipment repair men watching me through the glass hole in the wall while attempting to fix the radiation machine. At some point, I felt there wasn't a single person left in my town that hadn't seen my boobs.
And yes, the radiation suite was cold, the steel table was cold and the position on the table was uncomfortable. I never got used to the noise the machine made and how quickly the techs ran out of the room before the beams started up!
We had men and women in the waiting room and you could see the patients walking from the dressing area to the radiation area. Some of the guys must have been having their prostate radiated cause you could see their naked butts when they walked down the hall. All they could see of me was my naked back and tattoo on my back.
Looking back now .. those 8 weeks seemed to pass by pretty quickly.
KS ... thanks for asking .. how kind of you.
Bren
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Where I go there are both male & female techs. Once I am lined up they drape the gown over me. They also ask if I want a warm blanket since it is so cold in the room. The group of techs at my place are alot of fun. Each day there is a different topic of conversation so it keeps you busy talking while laying there and then once they leave they have a big screen mounted to the ceiling with different scenes and soothing music....heck it takes longer to get lined up then it does for the treatment. The women have a separate waiting room so we don't see the men unless they are in the lobby.
3 weeks down 4 more to go...
Fran
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The place where I did rads last year was unusual in that they just had you take your shirt off and get on the table when you walked in...talk aboutfeeling strange--they had 2 male and 2 female techs... they did cover my other breast carefully with my tee shirt during the treatment and I always had the other side covered with the bolus...the rads were very diificult for me emotionally..much more so than the chemo even...I will say tho that the techs were very nice and respectful-- I think that the just taking off the shirt part was more of a time issue than anything else..I was in and out in about 10 minutes every morning.
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You guys are awesome! I've been a therapist for 10 years and it hasn't been until late that this has become an issue. I trained at a University Hospital and I worked there for 1 1/2 years after. I moved and when I started my new job they never covered up the women at all. The personel, all the same males as now, had worked together for years and I was the first new blood in about 5 years. I started putting the pillowcase on the untreated side and they followed suite. I think that as time has passed I have become more of a patient advocate and as the only woman among men in our department, I feel the need to let them know, "The room is cold!!!" Cover up the women (and men) so they don't freeze.
It hasn't been about the modesty. I realize that you guys go thru the ringer before you even get to me and some of you don't care either way about being covered. I think it is about how would I feel about being on the table. I want the choice. I treat women that are my age and younger with children my kids ages and I am now thinking, boy, this could be me. How would I want to be treated?
I have tried turning up the room temp and it has only made the guys turn the temp down to 55 to get it cooler. I have brought it up to the boss, another male, who feels that it has always been done that way and it shouldn't change. I love our female onc because she feels the same way as I do. She says "Let them lie in that cold room with their penis uncovered and see how soon this changes!" I am waiting for our technical meeting that is coming up so she can tell them the same thing. I can't bring it up again because it makes for a hostile work environment for me.
It all seems childish to me because if you look at the big picture, this isn't about us, it is about you and what you want. I can't get it thru their thick heads. I feel there should be a choice.
And just to let you know, I can't remember what your breast looks like after your done being treated. I am only looking at the tattoos. Half the time I can't remember which side I am treating unless I look up at the screen. Yes, Time for repentance, I see nudeity so often that I don't notice. I have to look down everyday before I walk into work to make sure I have a shirt on. LOL
Thanks again
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Just finished rads a week ago. 2 guys and 2 females who alternate with rads. They call you in from waiting room and you change in one of two rooms. You only have to remove top garments and put on gown. After laying on table they take my right arm out of gown to expose right breast and fold back gown over other side. Then they line up and do the rads. Once they are done the first thing they do when they come back in room is put arm back in gown to cover me up. No one else is back there to see you in gown. They do not call anyone else back till you are done. The only days I saw anyone else back there is the days I had to see the onc or his PA once a week. Then someone would have been called back while I was in a room with them. Glad rads are over, but they were much easier than chemo. I still have 5 more months of herceptin. I was out from rads most days in less than 10 minutes. With boosts maybe even less. I was first patient after lunch , so never had to wait on anyone else ahead to be done.
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I have two more rad treatments till I am done (after a total of 35) I agree that modesty is really not an issue, but those rooms are coooooold. Most of the time my (female) techs pulled the gown up to cover me, but sometimes they forgot. My preference is to be covered to stay warner.
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For me, being covered was not an issue of modesty but of being treated with respect and dignity.
The techs where I was treated thought I was an object. The treated side (I'm post-mast) was never covered and the other side was most of the time. However, that's because I asked the first time for a sheet. Otherwise I was expected to undress behind a curtain in the treatment room and walk to the table undressed. They're supposed to give everyone a sheet but can't be bothered. The first time when I asked for a sheet they even asked why!. yeah, let them not only have to lie down exposed unnecessarily but walk around in front of strangers that way and see if they ask! The worst part of rads was the attitude of the techs.
At your next meeting, tell that to the staff. Their attitude is what will make a difference. I know some women aren't bothered by exposing their breasts (or one remaining breast!) to medical personnel by the time they get to rads but some are. The patient should be the one who decides if she wants to be exposed. If the techs are uncomfortable with that, point out to them that it's better for the uncomfortable person to be the healthy person not the one with cancer. A tad of sensitivity training is not amiss. Anyone who puts the temperature of a room where people will be undressed at 55 should not be allowed to adjust the temperature.
You can also tell them that now, 7 weeks post-rads, the memory of how I was treated is still painful and upsetting.
Thank you for caring enough to seek our opinion. I can see you're a fine, caring, person.
Leah
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My case is complex, I lay on the table for about 20 minutes. My 'bad' side is never covered, unless I have the bolus, and some of the techs cover up my 'good' side, and some don't. Of course I do prefer to be covered up because I do feel a little exposed otherwise. I have had about 8 different techs working on me throughout the process, 4 of them are men.
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I haven't had radiation yet but I will need it sometime soon. Reading this has made me a little anxious- YES I would prefer to be covered! I guess I'm still early in the process, I've only had BL lumpectomies so far, but whenever I have been examined the doctors have always been sensitive and made me feel more comfortable by covering me back up as soon as they are done. I never had to ask.
It's more about dignity and respect for me as a person. I don't care how many breasts they see during a work day, these are mine, not theirs, and it should be my choice to be covered or not! If it's cold in there too- well, I just don't even know what to say about that!
I wonder if they would feel the same if they were treating their mother or sister.
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All my techs were women. In fact, there were separate treatment areas for males and females with same-gender techs. This was at NYU in NYC. Smaller centers may not have the option of this.
I only had to disrobe from the waist up. I wore a hospital gown into the treatment room, then slipped out of it when I got on the table. Occasionally, one of the techs would drape a cloth over my chest after the tatts were lined up, but it wasn't done every time. The only time it bothered me was when I was told (after set-up) that there was a supervisor monitoring the treatment outside with the techs.
For all I know, someone else could have been out there every time. I just concentrated on staying still.
I had a bilat mx without recon, so it was not a pretty sight. I doubt anyone was viewing me for pleasure.
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I wore my pants and shoes and they had me wear a short cape that came down to about my waist and it snapped down the front. When I got on the radiation table I would unsnap, arms over head, they positioned me, covered up my good side and left. Two minutes later (if that) they were back in. I believe I only had one man that ever helped. And I know he was the same person who drew the pattern on my breast. But like everyone says at that point you show it to everyone and you don't really care. I was even showing my breast to my neighbors (just the ladies) after my surgery.
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I am amazed at the different ways everyone is treated. We have a dressing room that the men change on one side and the women on the other and then you wait together until we come and get you. I am aghast Leah_S that a department wouldn't give you a sheet. I have been to places that I have had other therapist tell me not to talk to the patients because we would get behind but not where I am at now. The guys are really personable but just not into change. We had a staff meeting today and our female Onc asked when we were having our technical meeting. She looked right at me. She has no fear of the guys or my boss. She has been an Onc for a long time and she is all about finding the best way for the patients. She is the wisest person I know and I respect her because she respects me. She will make this issue about your wants and needs. The guys will be mad at me but not as much as they will be at her and she doesn't care what they think. Time will heal all things. Just like you guys, they will find a "New Normal!"
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When I went in for my planning and tattoos, I was led to a dressing room and told to put on a gown with the opening in back. Because my muscles still are weak from my surgery, I was unable to tie the gown in the back so I left it open. The nurses disappeared and I was left on my own to get myself to the waiting area. I was never informed that the area where I would wait for the treament was co-ed. If they had let me know, I would have put two gowns on, one open in the back and the other over it open in the front. Instead I was struggling to keep the one gown from slipping off my shoulders in full view of two men sitting directly across from me in street clothes, staring at me. Yes, it was weird that the men were wearing street clothes and not gowns....but even more uncomfortable that they were staring at me.
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