confused about flax seed and soy

Now I'm confused because I was told to stay away from flaxseed because I'm ES+/PR+   I used to put 2 tsps of ground flaxseed in my oatmeal every day. I got bc anyway.

I'm staying away from it also. I've heard a lot of people use the 'Budwig Diet', which is flaxseed oil and cottage cheese, but I am afraid of the phytoestrogen properties from the flaxseed, so, until I read more I am avoiding adding it to my regimen. I am reading a book called "Cancer-Free Your Guide to Non-Toxic Healing" by Bill Henderson. He is not a doctor, but has done a lot of research on remedies for treating cancer. The Budwig Diet is in the book.

Hello ladies.

Over the years, I have used a wide range of complementary medecines, and supplements by way of vitamins, flax seed oil etc.

As you can see, I am DX oestrogen poisitive.   I have done exhaustive research on Soy and some on Flax Seed oil.

The decision I have made is that I think there is enough evidence to say that soy and possibly flax seed is NOT a good thing for me now.  So, I am not using either and monitor food labels very careful to see what has soy in it.

With respect, people make money out of selling supplements, and the services surrounding those sales.

I liken this to the internet - do you always believe everything you read there because actually, it is just a sounding board and you have no gaurantee that any of the info there is verified as accurate.  So, you treat it with a sceptical mind.

I have decided not to spend any more time worrying about the rights and wrongs - how does that benefit you?

There are loads of other good things that you CAN use, so why not just do that?

Good luck all -

Soy is good ONLY if you are raised using it. If you are taking it your entire life, it can help. If you all of a sudden start to take it, you can throw your hormones off. Many Asians are raised with soy, they are fine. That's where the "rumour" started, as there is a low incidence of bc in Asia.

It certainly is not helpful to us, when we are trying to be so careful, that there is such conflicting information out there. And unfortunately, most onc (and most docs) are not knowledgeable about nutrition or supplements or complementary therapies. The big drug companies are not going to do million dollar studies on products for which there is no profit. For now I am staying away from soy and flaxseed (although I used to use both every day in my cereal thinking that it was a healthy way to eat - my first bc was triple neg). Since this second dx (ES+/PR+) I have been getting different and conflicting information. A dietitian at the cancer centre told me 1 tsp of flaxseed a day is ok. A pharmacist at the cancer centre told me not to have any. Wellspring, a cancer support centre in Ontario, is offering some information programs this fall related to diet so I will go. Also, Sunnybrook Hospital (Cancer Centre) is offering a series of lectures related to diet and lifestyle and I'll go there as well in hopes of getting some answers. I have an appointment at the Naturopathic College in September to meet with someone there. .....I thought I was good with fish oil but based on other posts, I'm confused about that now too.

Hi ladies. I have found breastcancerchoises.org to be very helpful to me about vit and supplements. Also you might find the info about iodine very interesting.

Patty

I'm also er/pr+ and I decided to eat ground flaxseed for breakfast over 2 years ago.  At the time I was reading Christiane Northrup's book on menopause, and the list of benefits eating flaxseed is substantial.  It's supposed to get cholesterol down, for one thing, but many months later, my cholesterol test results came back high.  So that was hugely disappointing.  I continued anyway, because it's very effective at keeping thing moving, and by day three without it I'd be constipated again.

I typed some notes from Northrups book before I returned it to the library, if anyone wants to  do a search for it.  Northrup also advocates soy for breast health, and I drew the line there.  I like Northrup's overall approach to health medicine, but as bc patients, I think we're in a category of our own, and I don't feel Northrup ever addresses us specifically.  Also, in the US, soy is in nearly every packaged food product everywhere.  On top of that, most of the soy grown in the US is genetically modified, and gmo usually means Monsanto is the business behind it.  They're a great big bully and I don't want any of my dollars in their pockets.  So that's my dealbreaker for soy. 

In reference to studies on soy, all the reading I've done has fudgy language when it comes to the effects of soy, like it "may" promote estrogen production.  Well, for heavens sakes, how many millions have been raised by Komen foundation alone, can't they find something definitive?  Is anyone really looking?  Keep in mind how much research money comes from big business.  If a remedy is to be found in something dirt cheap, who would ever find it?  These are questions in my mind whenever I read. 

So when big business says flax 'might' be detrimental and therefore doctors say stay away, I question it a lot more than someone touting the benefits of something very inexpensive available at the grocery store.  The motives of the latter strike me as much more genuine.  

My rad doctor she said flax is fine for er/pr positive ladys,she recomends it.She said the soy thats in every day foods would be fine.I am 2 years out and i had large tumor and nodes and i'm doing fine on arimidex and still NED.....I eat what ever i want to.Life is to short not to enjoy it.I enjoy every miniute that God gives me.........godbless roxy

My "navigator nurse" said impossible to watch absolutely everything we eat.......but don't use soy or flaxseed she said.

Re flax:  There has been a significant amount of research done -- at the University of Toronto and at Duke University -- to indicate that ground flaxseed is beneficial for both breast and prostate cancer patients.  (Google Dr. Lillian Thompson at U of T).

  I think the biggest problem is the widespread belief that phytoestrogens (plant-based) behave in the same manner as human-based estrogens.  This is not necessarily true -- it seems that the lignans that form in our colons when consuming flax have been found to have anti-cancer (tumour-inhibiting) properties in mice and this has formed the basis of the research.

As mentioned before, the biggest problem any cancer patient has regarding nutrition and supplements is often her own oncologist who hasn't learned anything about them!  It's so much easier to just say "No" without providing any backup.  My onc is just fine with flaxseed, because it has many benefits and she has no fear of the phytoestrogens doing me any harm.  So, I've been adding a tbsp. to my fruit smoothie every morning for a couple of years and it sure helped during chemo especially......  As for soy, I've never been a consumer (unless accidentally and in miniscule amounts), so that discussion hasn't come up.

I think the only way through the minefield of *nutritional advice* out there is to just use common sense.   The best thing to do is to eat foods as close to their natural state as possible (as nature intended) - avoid things in boxes and tins.   Eat fruit, salad and vegetables (organic if you can afford it, otherwise just wash thoroughly).   Eat a small amount of organic meat, eggs, etc if you want.   Don't take *synthetic* vitamins.   If you take supplements, take things like Spirulina, Chlorella, a good quality fish oil (i.e., Norwegian cod liver oil from the fridge section of the healthfood store), prebiotics, Maca etc etc.   There is some evidence that synthetic vitamins are toxic and harmful to our bodies.   Also, isolating and manufacturing a single vitamin doesn't work - the components of food all work in synergy with each other - isolating one thing out and taking it as a supplement doesn't make sense and can cause imbalances in other vitamins.

After my bc diagnosis, I did a lot of research on the soy/flaxseed question as I got tired and confused from all the conflicting advice from doctors, one of whom told me that during the course of his University degree, they addressed *nutrition* for one hour in total!   I looked at the science and concluded that plant phytoestrogens are healthy and beneficial, as the phytoestrogens are weak and compete with the strong, dangerous form of oestrogen for receptor sites.   There are a lot of studies showing that flaxseed is beneficial with oestrogen positive BC tumours.  

There is also a big difference between eating a small amount of traditional soy foods (tofu, miso, tempeh, soy nuts) and consuming genetically modified, western soy products.   I don't eat things in boxes or packets so I don't need to scrutinise labels (makes life easier and takes the worry out of it).

I eat flaxseed, take flaxseed oil, and eat organic tofu and miso soup (both of which I love) with no fear.   I am over six years out from diagnosis of a 7.5cm er+ tumour, so so far so good.

Just my two cents

Love MelG

Great info Daisy! As I am ER/PR positive, I'll still stay away from the soy. But a low fat diet is good for ALL hormone types as it is body fat that produces the estrogen isn't it?

The flaxseed. Talk to me....How do I know if I'm getting a "good" one. Anything to watch for on labels?

I do take a multivitamin, one made for women over 50. Would it be adjusted properly?

This week I have attended a session at the Cancer Centre about nutrition, I saw my onc, had a session with a naturopath and tonight went to a lecture sponsored by the cancer centre. The question about soy and flax was asked at each session. Everyone agrees that soy and flax are the two plant products that contain estrogen (or estrogen like properties). This is a very hot topic right now and there is no conclusive research either way. Everyone has studies that prove both sides of the topic. I have had both TN and ES+/PR+ breast cancer. Between the 2 cancers, I was diligent about using organic freshly ground flax every day in my oatmeal along with a few ounces of low fat organic soy milk. After 3 years of eating healthy, I got the hormone receptive cancer. So the message I think is that you should do whatever you are comfortable doing and until there is conclusive evidence that proves one way or the other you make your own decisions. The next big discussion issue is vitamin D ......

oh i also take flaxseed as i think its important to fighting cancer too, and essential for the body.

drgnfly:   I agree with you 100%.  I keep wondering why the Medical Onc's office cant just hand us instructions of recommendations as to what we should and should not eat and exactly what supplements we should take or not take.   This should be designed for the individual patient for the best results. This should not be too difficult for them as they have every speck of our medical history and the specifics of our cancer.   It would be invaluable for not only our piece of mind but could essentially save us from future cancers.  If they dont know the answers, they could send us to someone who does. 

 When I was dx with diabetes I was sent to the nutritionist at a nearby hospital for instructions on food intake with diatetes and I remember this session was paid for by my insurance.  Today there is such a turmoil of discussions as to saving money for medical costs.  This is an area that would save lots of insurance money by prevention of future cancers by educating patients. As one of those patients I would just love to be told exactly what I can do to prevent reoccurance.

The current method of "figure it out on your own"  has poor results  I spend lots of time searching the net for answers and find it very discouraging and frustrating.   Cathey