Tamoxifen and Glucosamine

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3boys4me
3boys4me Member Posts: 319

I started taking Tamoxifen a little over a year ago and was feeling aches and pains that were getting worse and worse.  I spoke with my onc who insisted that the pain was not from the tamox.  He sent me for a bone scan which came back clear.

I started taking Glucosamine around 6 weeks ago and feel so much better.  Try it, it can't hurt and may very well help Laughing

Lisa

Comments

  • everyminute
    everyminute Member Posts: 1,805
    edited March 2009

    I just started taking it this past week and already feel better.  yay!

  • robyn33
    robyn33 Member Posts: 99
    edited March 2009

    I'm glad you discovered the glucosamine.  I began tamoxifen at the beginning of the year and had the same sore joints.  I've been taking glucosamine for about the beginning of Feb. and quickly began feeling "normal."  It took about a week for me to notice the lack of aches....  :-)

  • saman_vp
    saman_vp Member Posts: 1
    edited April 2009

    Hi,

    My mom also has taken tamoxifen for a while. She started pain and swelling in her joints, especially in her knees, a couple of weeks ago. So she asked me to do a search in the internet to see whether other women like her have the same condition or not.I likely find this page, thanks.

    I did a quick search and realized there are a couple of different kinds of Glucosamine, with Sulfate, with Chondroitin, and with MSM. I am woundering which one are you using? Any difference or preference?!

     Thanks

  • kayakgirl
    kayakgirl Member Posts: 172
    edited July 2009

    I had to go off my Glucosamine product (Schiff Move free Flex) for 17 days (10 day prior and 7 days after) because I needed surgery to have a lump in my neck excised (which turned out to be benign thank God). Well my left knee and leg is killing me. It hurts so bad I actually went to the Emergency Room and they did an ultrasound and took about 6 x-rays of my left knee and lower leg. Good news is no clot, no bone cancer but my knee is still hurting 7/10 intensity. I am taking Motrin alternating with extra strength tylenol and icing me knee.. I'm thinking is this the way I am going to live for the rest of my life. Is it the tamoxifen, menopause or post effects from chemo? So Monday I will go to my primary care MD and see does he have any bright ideas. This whole cancer and it's treatment sucks.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2009

    I took tamoxifen for 5 years----initially I didn't have any achiness; the achiness started after my total hysterectomy, so my oncologist said it was due to the lack of estrogen not the tamox; but sometimes I think it was the combination of the two. I thought it might go away when I went off the tamox, but it actually worsened a bit. I've been on the glucosamine for about a month now, but I haven't noticed any real significant difference. Does it take a while to take effect? (I've heard up to 3 months)

    Anne

  • kayakgirl
    kayakgirl Member Posts: 172
    edited July 2009

    Hi Anne,

    The glucosamine seems to help some people but not all, I would take it for another month and see if it helps you. You may want to switch brands. Since supplements  are a very unregulated industry, another brand may work better. I also am taking fish oil capsules (if your ER + just make sure the fish oil has no soy in them since several brands have soy), and Vitamin D and Calcium. A rhematologist MD put me on the Vitamin D after checking my Vit D level which was very low.

    I hope they help

    Agnes

  • Dovehome
    Dovehome Member Posts: 57
    edited July 2009

    Hi,

    Are you saying that soy is not good for you if you are ER + ?  This is the first I've heard this; still trying to catch up on all that is good/bad for bc.

    thanks

  • kayakgirl
    kayakgirl Member Posts: 172
    edited July 2009

    from http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/content/NWS_1_1x_Soy_Component_May_Counteract_Tamoxifen_Used_by_Breast_Cancer_Patients.asp

    Soy May Counteract Tamoxifen Used by Breast Cancer Patients
    Lab Studies Find Connection
    Article date: 2002/06/20

    Genistein, one of the components of soy often touted for its possible beneficial effects, may in fact be harmful for some women with breast cancer, according to a new study.

    In a study conducted in mice, researchers found that when taken as part of a daily diet, genistein can stop the ability of tamoxifen to halt breast cancer growth. The results were reported in the journal Cancer Research (Vol. 62: 2474-2477).

    Tamoxifen Effective for Most Breast Cancers

    Of the 203,500 cases of breast cancer expected to be diagnosed this year, most will be estrogen dependent. These cancers grow partly in response to estrogen (the main female hormone). They are described as estrogen receptor positive, or ER positive, cancers.

    Tamoxifen has long been an effective treatment for women with ER positive breast cancer. It works by blocking the estrogen receptors and preventing estrogen from attaching to them.

    Tamoxifen is mostly used after surgery or radiation therapy in women who are past menopause. It reduces the risk that the cancer will return. Tamoxifen is also used by some women without breast cancer but who are at high risk of developing it, because it helps lower this risk.

    But tamoxifen is not without side effects. Some women who take it feel menopause-like symptoms, including hot flashes and emotional changes. There are few useful treatments for these symptoms.

    Doctors usually advise women with a history of breast cancer to avoid hormone replacement therapy (HRT) - which can lessen the symptoms - because it includes estrogen and could have an effect on any lingering breast cancer cells.

    Some women turn to soy products or supplements to lessen their symptoms, even though good scientific proof that they work is lacking.

    Soy contains substances called phytoestrogens, such as genistein, which can act as estrogens in the body. But these compounds might counteract the tamoxifen itself, making it less effective and possibly causing breast cancer cells to grow.

    Study in Mice Points to Possible Risk

    To test this theory, researchers from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign inserted estrogen-dependent breast cancer cells into lab mice. When a group of these mice was then implanted with estrogen, the breast cancer tumors began to grow quickly.

    In groups where both estrogen and tamoxifen implants were used, little tumor growth was seen.

    But when mice with estrogen and tamoxifen implants were fed a diet high in genistein, breast cancer tumors again developed, showing that the protection of tamoxifen had been lost. The researchers noted that the levels of genistein used were "well within the range of reported human exposures."

    Results Preliminary, But Caution Is Urged

    The researchers were quick to say that further studies are needed to clarify the interaction between genistein, estrogen, and tamoxifen.

    In particular, the dose range at which genistein affects tamoxifen should be studied, so that recommendations based on research can be made.

    In the meantime, they said, women taking tamoxifen for breast cancer should use caution when it comes to genistein.

    Women concerned about such issues should openly discuss any supplements they are taking with their doctors, experts advise.

    Complementary and alternative forms of therapy are becoming more popular in the US. Some studies report that somewhere between 28% and 91% of women with breast cancer take some type of supplement not prescribed by their doctors.

    Many do not let their doctors know what they are taking. This could lead to less effective therapies, or even harmful interactions.

  • hrf
    hrf Member Posts: 3,225
    edited July 2009

    I was definitely told to stay away from soy products because of ES+ bc. I'm allowed 1 tsp of flax seed a day and no more for the same reason

  • hlya
    hlya Member Posts: 484
    edited July 2009

    Anne,

    Did you do the bone density check?   After hysterectomy you should be able to get Zometa injection?

  • Dovehome
    Dovehome Member Posts: 57
    edited July 2009

    Thanks for the info Agnes.  Since my diagnosis of bc, I've stayed away from milk products by switching to soy...

  • Hopeful-1
    Hopeful-1 Member Posts: 72
    edited July 2009

    Hello Dovehome,

    I was told by my doct to avoid and stay away from Soy products.  They  are not good for PR+ and ER+ becasue it mimics estrogen.  You may want to ask your doctor.

    Connie

  • cureme1
    cureme1 Member Posts: 29
    edited July 2009

    Hi I've been on Tamox for 5 months. went through gaining weight. but since lost it. hearing voices! spinning, extremem depression  etc. but it has leveled out to almost normal except every 3 days or so I get the joint pain everywhere. I'm reluctant to try glucosamine because before BC I used it and got terrible headaches. Not sure if I want those again

  • texas94
    texas94 Member Posts: 204
    edited August 2009

    Thanks for the tip on Glucosamine... I am having some pains and will definitely try it!

     As for the soy, I actually just asked my oncologist a couple of weeks ago about it. She said "food" soy is fine, but no supplements. I was so glad, since I have really been trying to follow a healthier diet and am really enjoying have some soy foods (from the GREAT book "Anti-Cancer: A New Way of Life")!

  • Cif
    Cif Member Posts: 12
    edited December 2014

    I start tamoxifen in a few weeks, but in April after completing TCH and continuing with Herceptin @21 days I was heading to needing a wheel chair due to pain.  Went to tons of specialist and scans and they said some folks get perm damage from chemo and get wheel chair.  Per her2support.org post I tried GNC Glucosime 1000 (deep in recesses of mind I recall my research years earlier that taken without condrotin(sp) improves effectiveness which back then appeared to be true from pers exp).  So I'm not on tamox yet, but did get huge relief and dodged wheel chair.  Just did a 15 min mile and maybe can get close to my old 17 mile days in future.  But also at that same time started CoQ10 100mg to protect heart from Herceptin ... D3 5000IU, B12 so between them something or all worked. 

    Before starting the supplements (or the thought coming to mind), extremely hot Epsom salt baths helped, water and elec bill was outrageous.

    Update: experimented and only took the Gluosime nothing else, got headache ... drank two full glasses of water and got relief.  Sticking to orig supplement cocktail.

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