Why did I not know this?

This is my cliff notes version of my meeting with the nutritionist in March while I was going through rads:

We talked about soy and since I’m estrogen receptor positive I need to watch out for soy.  Since I don’t drink soy milk or eat a lot of soy I shouldn’t have a problem and the occasional soy sauce or soybeans shouldn’t hurt me.  She said studies say that 2 servings a day is safe but she said if it were her she would avoid it.  My Oncologist also told me a couple servings a week would be fine.  There was a study done years ago on China for example having a low cancer rate.  They found they ate a lot of soy.  Hence the soy “craze” here (my words)…She said I don’t need to become a vegetarian.  Cancer doesn’t discriminate.  She has plenty of patients who are vegan/vegetarians and they cannot figure out why they have cancer.  If they knew what caused cancer there would be no “hope for a cure”.  Genetics, environment, etc. can play a huge role in what turns on the cancer switch in our bodies.  80% of breast cancer patients have no family history. So who knows!  And if they knew for sure that what you ate was a guarantee on how not to get cancer, someone would be rich!

I brought up sugar and she went into a whole chemistry analysis of sugar, the food pyramid and how the body breaks things down into simple sugars, whether it be from carbs, which are sugars or honey or white sugar, etc.  She said my body has no problem breaking down sugar, so I shouldn’t freak out (my words) about it.  She said if I were to put sugar or honey in my tea that the honey would give me extra nutrients but the body would still see both the same.  Same for bread, etc.  She said go ahead and eat your birthday cake, you will be fine.  If we cut out sugars, we would have nothing left to eat except veggies practically!

On organic foods, she said it is more expensive, but if you can afford it go for it, but don’t beat yourself up over it if you can’t.  80 or 90% (can’t remember now which one she said) of the world does not eat organically.

We should be eating low fat well balanced diets, which I already do.  Be sensible about it is what she said and she will tell me if something can hurt me or whether or not it can help me.  She said I have her as a resource and that I can give her a call or email her and she will tell me if something is good for me or not.  The fancy fruit extract juices I was buying and the veggie powders can’t hurt me but she can’t tell me if they in fact help me.  She said if you want to spend the money on these things and you like it go for it.  She bases her knowledge on scientific research and studies.  She said listen to your body, if you get sick or an upset stomach after eating certain foods, then avoid those foods (I think we all know that).  We can make better choices.  She told me to relax and to be sensible.

Ok, this may seem like a silly question, but if fat produces estrogen, and I've read that belly fat can lead to cancer, why is there a reconstruction option that takes fat from your abdomen and uses it to rebuild your breasts?

Thanks Jorf, that's an important distinction!

Well HollyAnn, when I asked my plastic surgeon this question a few weeks ago, he looked at me and said that no one had ever asked him that question before, and he has performed well over 800+ DIEP Flap reconstructions. 

His basic response was that it was not an issue that had ever come up in any of the research he'd read or conferences he attended, and that problems associated around this would/should have shown up by now IF re-locating estrogen-storing/producing belly fat led to poorer outcomes in reconstructed women.

That's all I can report at the moment.  I'll ask him if he researched it further when I meet with him again.

Alaina

It all comes down to eating things in moderation. I went to a nutritionist who said that years ago dinner plates were 7 inches and today are between 10 and 12. We are a "super sized" nation. I am to eat foods that aren't refined and as close to their natural state as possible. My oncologist told me no soy, which is fine with me!

On another note, I attended a workshop called, "Attitudinal Healing" last week and the discussion was about changing our genetics. Being BRCA 2+ I wasn't too sure what they were talking about. How could we change our genes? We discussed how, through the generations, our diets and life styles have changed drastically. Somewhere along the way our genetic codes have taken several "hits" which might have caused our genes to mutate into cancer. Could it be possible to change our eating habits and lifestyles to make our genes healthy again? Could be possible be able to "fix" faulty genes for future generations?

I'm wondering how many people, who were raised from birth, to be vegan or vegetarian, develop cancer? Are they a healthier group? Has anyone seen studies on this?

Linda

kfinnigan-that study your nutritionist sited is not accurate. It was found that they hardly ate any soy and if they did consume it, it was fermented, which is supposed to make a difference. I challenge you tofind products that don't in some way include soy. That's what I've had to do. I was shocked at how hard it was to buy anything w/o soy in it. It's in everything! From the food you eat, to the lotion you put on your largest organ of your body-your skin. It's in shampoo. It's in chocolate. It's sometimes called by different names-lecithin. Look for the soy thread on the natural girls forum. I don't believe the statement about sugar is accurate either. You need to find the glycemic index for the type of food to see how your body responds to it. I have switched to blue agave nectar and stevia for my tea.

Good luck, there's so much research to do...I thought i was done with school

Lecithin originally came from eggs, and with so many people being soy conscious (or allergic), products are supposed to be labeled as "soy lecithin" if it does not come from an egg. In any case, the amount of lecithin is usually so small (like a few drops) it's almost negligible in most foods. What products I would be MOST concerned about are ones where isolated soy protein or soybean oil are added. They are usually higher up the content label (therefore, used in greater quantity), and are not natural states for soy.

Unless an oil is cold expeller-pressed (basically, the vegetable is crushed and the oil collected), it has to be extracted through a process that uses other chemicals to leach the oil out. That's how they make soybean oil. The beans are soaked in hexane. Look that up for a good case of indigestion.

Soy is also a genetically modified crop. In less than ten years in the United States (1997-2006) the percentage of GM'd soybean grown went from 8% to 89%. So that makes a big difference to me when comparing people who eat natural soy products in Asia and the very unnatural soy that's put into our foods in the US.

It's hard to eliminate it entirely, as many of us have found. But I've found little jewels in my search for soy-free foods—things I wouldn't have tried unless I was reading the contents listing and searching out snacks without soy. My local supermarket markets their own organic potato chips...soyfree and they taste great!—cooked in cold expeller-pressed safflower oil. Annie's Organic Cheddar Bunnies also are soy-free (great substitute for Cheese-Its crackers). And there's a brand of refrigerated salad dressings that has some soy-free flavors (unfortunately, not all, so I won't mention the brand, so you have to read the labels).

Once you spend some time reading the labels and trying the products, you'll find the ones you like, too. And for the things that just have no soy-free substitutes (ah...chocolate), you can feel less guilty about the small amount you ingest.

Rockysmom - I too was shocked to learn that my body fat contributed to excess estrogen in my body! I learned this prior to my BC dx.........my ob/gyn saw that I had a thickened endometrial lining (just below the top limits of 6 mm).......she said it was being fed by estrogen. Being post-menopausal I said, "What estrogen?" then she explained about how being overweight causes this problem. I was STUNNED! Then when I got the BC dx I became ANGRY that no one EVER told me this all these years since I hit menopause and started gaining weight.............no one, not my PCP, not my old ob/gyn, no one - and I'm an avid reader of science information in magazines and newspapers and I NEVER read that connection. Oh yes - we've all vaguely remember the general statement of "eat healthy and stay a healthy weight"........and possibly I read some vague article saying that scientists think being overweight MIGHT contribute to cancer (general cancer) - but NO ONE ever said a word about body fat contributing to estrogen overload! I'm spreading the word now - even my infusion nurse didn't know this - even my PCP's nurse didn't know this!

So thanks Rockysmom for starting this thread - I agree with you - the information needs to GET OUT THERE TO ALL WOMEN - not just to our sisters here at bc.org (it's like closing the barn door after the horse got out). Next time I see my breast surgeon, ob/gyn and onc I'm going to ask them what are THEY doing to educate their female patients on how to REDUCE their risk of BC by lowering their weight!

Estrogren in our bodies comes from two main sources:  the ovaries and from a conversion of the enzyme aromatase.  In premenopausal women, the ovaries produce a large amount of estrogen.  In postmenopausal women, however, the ovaries are no longer active.  The main source of estrogen is supplied by the conversion of aromatase--an enzyme secreted by the adrenal glands right over the kidneys--into estrogen.  This conversion takes place within the tissues of the body, fat cells included. (This conversion takes place in premenopause also, but the amount is nothing compared to what the ovaries put out.)  The theory is that the more fat cells you have, the more "factories" your body has to make this conversion.  Aromatase inhibitors, like femara and anastrole, work by preventing this conversion from taking place. 

I myself wonder if the theory that extra weight contributes to cancer is putting the horse before the cart:  The first time I was diagnosed with cancer, I had recently put on quite a few pounds.  The cancer, however, had started to grow BEFORE the weight gain, so maybe the cancer itself contributed to the extra pounds.  After I finished treatments and the tamox and femara were out of my system--about eight years later--my attempts at weight loss suddenly kicked in and I lost thirty pounds.   I maintained that weight for a while.  Then suddenly, I put on ten pounds.  A few months later, I was diagnosed with a recurrence.  It just makes me wonder!  Now no matter how long I walk or how much I push those fruits and veggies, the weight doesn't budge.  Does make me wonder about the true connection between cancer and fat cells.

arbojenn...you think, then, that the cancer is causing the weight gain?  Kind of like it's creating the fat in order to store the needed estrogen?