Echo. fell below 50

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Jaimieh
Jaimieh Member Posts: 2,373

 I was sent for an echo due to breathing problem and while I was there the teck said it was 58 which meant it went up.  Well I had a follow up with my oncologist and I have to go in 3 weeks for a follow up because my effraction rate was 46.  The oncologist stated that he felt everything was find that my heart ER was not over 50 because my pulse rate was 120 at resting.  So now am still getting my last treatment of TCH and then my onocologist wants me to have the echo. the first week of June.  Has anyone ever had this happen to them ??  I keep explain to my oncologist that getting herceptin is the thing I want to make sure I get. 

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  • snowyday
    snowyday Member Posts: 1,478
    edited May 2009

    Here is a little info on cardiotoxicity and biomarkers they may start using to try predict who might just have cardio problems while on different chemo therepies.  I hope they start using these biomarkers quickly, but they still say on traztusumab the heart iissues can change from one day to the next.  Its a really good article.

    Awareness of Cardiotoxicity From Breast Cancer Treatment Is First Step in Solving the Problem Elsevier Global Medical News. 2008 Mar 25, F LowryHOLLYWOOD, Florida(EGMN) - Advances in the treatment of breast cancer have been significant, but they have come at a price: increased toxicity to the heart. The most important step in minimizing this cardiotoxicity is to be aware that it does occur, Dr. William J. Gradishar said at the annual conference of the National Comprehensive Cancer Network."Women with breast cancer are living longer and, as time passes, some of the long-term side effects as a result of therapy may become apparent. That is certainly an issue with some of the systemic therapies we use," said Dr. Gradishar, professor of medicine at Northwestern University, Chicago.Factors that may increase the risk of cardiotoxicity include age, with women aged 70 years and older at particularly high risk; mediastinal radiotherapy; and preexisting heart disease.Commenting about the cardiotoxicity of radiation therapy, Dr. Gradishar said outcomes for patients receiving radiation have improved over the past 10 years, largely because of better planning and technology. However, while this has occurred, there has been an increase in non-breast cancer mortality, and heart disease has risen by 27%. He cautioned that clinicians must recognize that there is a small but real risk of cardiac side effects related to radiation therapy, particularly when it is left sided. "We have to balance this risk against the incremental improvement in outcome that comes with adjuvant radiation therapy."Dr. Gradishar also talked about the perils of systemic therapy. Here, the anthracyclines, most notably doxorubicin, are the main cardiotoxicity culprits. Doxorubicin lowers left ventricular ejection fraction, and some patients develop heart failure as a result. Dr. Gradishar said these drops in ejection fraction can be asymptomatic. Treatment with ACE inhibitors and calcium channel blockers can help these patients recover their cardiac function, but left to its own devices, anthracycline-induced heart failure will not resolve spontaneously, he said.Dexrazoxane is an iron chelator that counteracts the cardiotoxic effects of the anthracyclines. It is approved for reducing the incidence and severity of doxorubicin-associated cardiomyopathy in women with metastatic breast cancer who have received a cumulative doxorubicin dose of 300 mg/m² and who, in their doctor's opinion, would benefit from continuing therapy with taking doxorubicin. However, it is not recommended for use at the start of doxorubicin therapy, Dr. Gradishar said."There was concern that dexrazoxane might attenuate some of the antitumor effect of the doxorubicin if it was started from the get-go as opposed to starting it later. So for those patients you think would benefit from doxorubicin beyond 300 mg/m², consider using dexrazoxane."More recently, concerns have been raised about the cardiotoxicity of targeted therapy with trastuzumab. This risk is justified, given the dramatic 25% improvement in overall survival in poor prognosis HER2-positive breast cancer seen with the drug, Dr. Gradishar said. He noted that about 4% of patients getting chemotherapy with concurrent trastuzumab develop heart failure. "Most of the events occur relatively early on so we are not seeing - at least with the follow-up we have to date - a large spike in [heart failure] after therapy is discontinued," he said, adding most of the cardiac toxicity occurs in the midst of therapy.Predicting who will develop cardiac problems from their therapy remains difficult. Symptoms are not the most sensitive way of detecting or predicting who is going to have a problem, Dr. Gradishar said. "In many cases, the patient looks good one day, and the next day, they have gross symptoms suggestive of a problem."Similarly, electrocardiographic changes are not always predictive, and multiple gated acquisition scans and echocardiography may show a trend towards cardiac toxicity "but you can have the same problem with a patient who is fine one day, but with the next cycle of therapy she is showing a precipitous drop," he said.Biomarkers such as troponin and brain natriuretic peptide are being investigated as possible indicators of developing cardiotoxicity or cardiovascular risk but, at present, are not standard of care, Dr. Gradishar said.He disclosed that he had no conflicts of interest to disclose.

  • bluedasher
    bluedasher Member Posts: 1,203
    edited May 2009

    Hi Jamieh. One good thing is that you were on TCH therapy and didn't get Adriamycin. When Herceptin causes a drop in ejection fraction, the LVEF usually comes back up after Herceptin is stopped. That's different from the drops due to Adriamycin.

    When I was starting chemo, my onc pointed out that I shouldn't worry if my LVEF dropped and we had to stop Herceptin after 18 weeks. In Europe they often give Herceptin for just 18 weeks and get good results from that. There isn't a conclusive study (and I don't know if there is any in process) that compares getting 18 weeks vs 1 year of Herceptin so my onc still gives it for a year as long as LVEF stays good. 

    There is a study, FINHER, that used 9 weeks of Herceptin and got very good results.

    So even if you have to stop Herceptin after this treatment, you have probably gotten most of the benefit from Herceptin. Also, your LVEF will probably come back up after Herceptin is stopped. Some oncs will resume Herceptin after LVEF comes back up and some don't.

  • Jaimieh
    Jaimieh Member Posts: 2,373
    edited May 2009

    Thanks Bluedasher & Snowday.  My onc. is sending me back in for a echo. the first week of June but it makes no sense because my pulse rate is still racing which will give me a low efraction rate.  I am going to call him this week to discuss it with him again.  I am scheduled for a blood transfusion for June 10  because my RBC are low again so I am not sure why he wouldn't just schedule it for a week earlier.  I know he wants my body to get itself together but I'm not sure what else I can do to get my counts up and get some normalcy going. 

  • bluedasher
    bluedasher Member Posts: 1,203
    edited May 2009

    Hmmm, I've never heard of scheduling a blood transfusion 2 weeks out. When my RBC was low enough to need one, they always did it right away. I guess your onc is figuring that your last treatment will send your RBC down about that time. I did need blood about 3 weeks after my last TCH. I don't think there is anything you can do to get your RBC up. Time should fix it.

    My last blood test was 3 months after my last chemo and I'm still anemic - not enough to need a transfusion - my hemoglobin is about 9. They were down from the level after my post chemo transfusion so I guess my bone marrow still doesn't have its act in gear. I'm hoping the next one is better. At least my white blood cells and platelets are fine. And I feel good - I'm not noticing tiredness or breathing hard despite the low count.

    I hope your next MUGA is better.

  • Jaimieh
    Jaimieh Member Posts: 2,373
    edited May 2009

    Bluedasher~ My transfusion is scheduled for June 10 (3 weeks out) because of my exchange surgery that is scheduled for June 17 but it could be canceled if my counts are fine.  I think you are right that he thinks my last treatment will have been enough to send my counts down the drain again.  I just hope that my next Echo (duh I forgot I am a sissy so I get echo's) is better than 50 so I can keep up my herceptin.    I seem to be fine with my wbc and everything else it is the RBC that are in the tank which I have never had problems with before and I hope it corrects itself.  I really just want my pulse rate to return to a normal rate so I don't feel like I am running none stop. 

    Guess I should really make the appointment for my echo. and then call the doctor.  It's been a lazy day today. 

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