Remefemin

I don't recommend it for breast cancer survivors:

http://www.webmd.com/breast-cancer/news/20081111/black-cohosh-tied-to-breast-cancer-spread 

Typically I like more solid data on the good or harm, but in the case of breast cancer, I don't like to take chances.

The controversy over Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) rages on. Over 40 million American women are within menopause age, and in five years the numbers will increase to over 60 million. In the search for safe ways to reduce menopausal symptoms and discomfort without HRT, many have embraced black cohosh -- used traditionally as a remedy by Native Americans, and by Europeans since the 19th century.

A recent study found that Remifemin black cohosh extract reduced menopausal symptoms by 70 percent in 12 weeks, including hot flashes, night sweats, mood swings, irritability, and related occasional sleeplessness. A randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, study published in Obstetrics and Gynecology (2005;105:1074-83) found that Remifemin significantly reduced menopausal symptoms. The results were similar to recent hormone replacement therapy study results showing Remifemin is a safe and effective alternative to HRT.

"Remifemin is clearly the world's most clinically tested black cohosh product, with over 15 clinical trials that demonstrate the safety and efficacy of the product," says Mark Blumenthal, Founder and Executive Director of the American Botanical Council. "Almost all of the scientific literature on black cohosh was conducted on Remifemin including recent clinical trials showing no estrogenic activity of the product." Remifemin is completely hormone-free, without plant-based estrogens that can affect breast and uterine cell growth. It is safe for women with a history of breast cancer who cannot take estrogen.

"Smart German chemists have been working on Remifemin for over 50 years," says Yale University School of Medicine Clinical Professor Mary Jane Minkin, MD, who recommends Remifemin as a standard alternative to HRT. "While its mechanism of action is unclear, black cohosh is one of the few products that seems to relieve hot flashes. Twenty percent of patients sail through menopause without problems, but eighty percent have varying degrees of symptoms, some severe," she explains. "I talk to everyone about Remifemin, along with lifestyle issues like healthy diet and exercise. I respect the personal preferences of my patients, many of whom do not want drug intervention." Dr. Minkin is author of A Woman's Guide to Menopause & Perimenopause (Yale University Press 2005).

Not all black cohosh is the same. Most products in the market lack the standardization and research that can ensure efficacy and safety, and multi- ingredient compounds can potentially create problems from drug interactions. "Remifemin, with over 90 scientific papers, is the most researched black cohosh product in the world," explains Matt Schueller, Senior VP Marketing for Enzymatic Therapy, Inc., exclusive distributors of Remifemin in North America and one of the first to introduce standardization to the U.S. supplement industry. "Comprising a proprietary, standardized extract (uniform dosage) of pure black cohosh root called RemiSure(TM), it is the #1 OB/GYN-recommended non-prescription menopause therapy."

I think the jury is still very much out on black cohosh and many other supplements. Murine (mouse) studies are very limited in their relevance to humans, as so many failed drug trials have proven. So many drugs that look very promising in mice are found to be utterly useless, or harmful, in humans, that I give very little credence to them. Black cohosh may or may not add a small degree of risk of recurrence for people who already have breast cancer, according to a study done in mice??? I don't buy that one at all. 

Many women suffer extremely debilitating vasomotor symptoms that destroy our lives, not "a few hot flashes", so minimizing the devastation of those menopausal symptoms offends me. People have to make up their own minds, based on the severity of their menopausal symptoms, whether to accept the risk of treatment for them, or not. So far there is no known, completely effective or safe treatment  for hot flashes, only a few treatments, with side effects and risks of their own, so it remains a complex decision to make, worthy of doing one's own research and independent thinking. 

Surgical or chemo induced menopause is not "natural" and women haven't been going through it "since we were covered with fur". Most women died by 30-40 years of age, often from complications of childbearing, and never went through menopause. Our bodies are not well adapted to living long periods without estrogen and other sex steroids.

Surgical and chemo induced menopause is about as far from "natural" as it gets, and can be far more severe due to the precipitous drop in hormones, and for quite a few women can be totally disabling. Minimizing the suffering and disability produced by those life altering changes that many women experience is really offensive to me. Not being able to sleep from continuous hotflashes and estrogen deficiency, with brain fog, memory loss, orthopedic pain and disability, vaginal atrophy leading to chronic cystitis and infections, new onset migraines, increased cardiovascular risks, etc., are all major health issues that require medical attention.

In the study of the historic use of botanical medicine there is a very extensive literature documenting the needs of women searching for treatment of menopause symptoms, none of it just started with capitalism, it started out of real need for help. 

Well, it "really isn't" for desdemona22 but obviously all of our bodies are different and it CAN be disabling or at the very least incredibly difficult!  That is why there are alternatives complementary approaches.  Women (very often it is women only) are allowed to "suffer" anything under the heading of nature and yet do you recall the little blue pills for men because their "natural" ED is hard on them (no pun intended) and it certainly helps the women these men are connected to as well..  We can't stop looking and testing the bounds of medicine because we think something is "natural".  I'm sure years ago women died of breast cancer but it was considered "natural" so nothing was done??  Well I'm for looking at anything that might help, prolong, or enhance our lives.. with the only exception being harming other's lives!

desdemona222b said "it isn't the horror scene a lot of women think it is, it really isn't"

What I said was it wasn't for you but it is for many women and your experience is YOUR experience you can't make that judgement for another women. 

And since we're talking about hot flashes, here's an interesting article that indicates you may just survive longer if you do have hot flashes:

Breast Cancer Recurrence In Women Without Hot Flashes May Be Reduced By Diet

A secondary analysis of a large, multicenter clinical trial has shown that a diet loaded with fruits, vegetables and fiber and somewhat lower in fat compared to standard federal dietary recommendations cuts the risk of recurrence in a subgroup of early-stage breast cancer survivors - women who didn't have hot flashes - by approximately 31 percent. These patients typically have higher recurrence and lower survival rates than breast cancer patients who have hot flashes. The study team, led by researchers at the Moores Cancer Center at the University of California, San Diego, along with six other sites, including the University of California, Davis, reported its results online December 15, 2008, in the Journal of Clinical Oncology.

The results come on the heels of a report last year on the findings of the original study, the Women's Healthy Eating and Living Trial (WHEL), which compared the effects of the two diets on cancer recurrence in more than 3,000 early-stage breast cancer survivors. That study showed no overall difference in recurrence among the two diet groups.

"Women with early stage breast cancer who have hot flashes have better survival and lower recurrence rates than women who don't have hot flashes," said Ellen B. Gold, Ph.D., professor and chair of the UC Davis Department of Public Health Sciences and first author of the study. "Our results suggest that a major change in diet may help overcome the difference in prognosis between women with and without hot flashes."

"Our interest in looking at this subgroup came because hot flashes are associated with lower circulating estrogen levels, while the absence of hot flashes is associated with higher estrogen levels. Reducing the effect of estrogen is a major treatment strategy in breast cancer," said the WHEL study principal investigator John P. Pierce, Ph.D., Sam M. Walton Professor for Cancer Prevention and director of Cancer Prevention and Control at the UC San Diego School of Medicine and the Moores UCSD Cancer Center. "It appears that a dietary pattern high in fruits, vegetables and fiber, which has been shown to reduce circulating estrogen levels, may only be important among women with circulating estrogen levels above a certain threshold."

About 30 percent of the original group of 3,088 breast cancer survivors did not report hot flashes at study entry. The women had been randomly assigned to one of the two diets between 1995 and 2000 and were followed until 2006. About one-half (447) of the "no hot flashes" group were randomized to the special, "intervention" high-vegetable fruit diet while the other half (453) was given the generally recommended diet of five servings of fruits and vegetables a day. The team found that those on the intervention diet had a significantly lower rate of a second breast cancer event (16.1 percent) compared to those eating the government-recommended five-a-day dietary pattern (23.6 percent).

The dietary effect was even larger (a 47 percent lower risk) in women who had been through menopause.

According to Pierce, another possible mechanism has been proposed recently for why this diet may have affected only 30 percent of the WHEL study population. Women with estrogen receptor-positive cancers usually receive hormone therapy (tamoxifen or aromatase inhibitors) aimed at combating the effect of circulating estrogen. However, more than 30 percent of these women appear to have a gene-drug interaction that prevents them from getting an effective dose of this therapy.

"This hypothesis says that if the endocrine therapy is working, no further reduction in estrogen levels would be needed," said Pierce. "If your genes are preventing you from getting a therapeutic dose, then following this rigorous dietary pattern may reduce estrogen levels enough to reduce risk." Because this is speculation, he said, the research team will be using biological samples collected throughout the study to further investigate the mechanisms behind the study diet's protective effects.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/133215.php

Wow, jeez - none of that was my intent.  Florida Lady brought up HRT first and there were remarks about hot flashes, so I thought the whole thing was about some form of it.  I do think you're a little extra sensitve about this, not sure why, but I'm not here to fight or attack anyone. 

Prozac does not work for everyone, it is not a cure for hot flashes, it helps a minority of women who take it. Prozac also interferes with the action of Tamoxifen, so it is contraindicated for women who concurrently take Tamoxifen, which is a major impediment for many women with breast cancer.

Telling me I am being hypersensitive simply gives credence to my argument that somehow women who invade the alternative and complementary board to attack our choices seem to feel it is appropriate to minimize and insult out report of symptoms and difficulties with breast cancer and it's treatments. I will object to having my own issues with treatment minimized here, or on any other board, you have no right to do that to me.

Last post - I appreciate the information about Prozac - didn't know that.

Here's an article on it:

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3313491/Anti-depressant-drugs-'make-breast-cancer-treatments-less-effective'.html

Well, that's categorically rude, and is thus reported.