Suzanne Somors hormone replacement???
Comments
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Diana1993 wrote:
"Since 1993, I have taken sharks tooth, all the vitamins, drank the latest juice, tea, and health food of the moment, but never stop giving thanks to the researchers who have come up with some life saving chemotheropies i.e herceptin, xeloda, tykerb and anti estrogen treatments. I say trust the pros."
Have you ever researched the ABSOLUTE (real) statistics on all of these? 'cause absolute statistics (as opposed to the RELATIVE statistics that the drug companies insist upon throwing at us) are the reason why the Recurrence/Metastatic thread is, unfortunately, filled with women who have done all of the medicine that you mention above. To no avail to the very end.
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Diana1993: "I say trust the pros", well I applaud your attempts to incorporate alternative supplements into your diet.. the problem with your comment is that it is PROS that are coming out with the bio-identical information as well as Suzanne Summers.. I was into supplements and looking at bio-identicals before I ever knew about Suzanne Summers. So are we going to throw the baby out with the bathwater? There is ongoing scientific research into bio-identical as we speak, the problem with a natural occurring products is that it can't be patented.. so that's why more of the alternatives are not being looked at.. If they can't be patented then a pharmacutical company cannot make any money on it.. That also means that there won't be as much money for research into natural occuring products.. So we have to give weight to the PROS who are standing up and saying "we just don't know" while that doesn't say go for the bio-identicals it does affirm, for me, that even with the best intentions doctor's in conventional medicine "just don't know" either.. so it's just not cut and dry IMO.. and when you life is at stake we tend to be more open minded, but as I read somewhere we don't want to be so open minded that our brains fall out - conversly we don't want to exclude what mother nature has made for us as most of our medicine COME from mother nature and then they are synthesized with one or two molecules replaced or displaced and so THEN and only THEN can a company make money on them.. but when they displace or replace one or two molecules they may actually be negating what occurs NATURALLY.. again just my opinions.
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I am trying to find a post I read recently on this board from a lady who is sure that her breast cancer was caused by bio-identical hormones, because her tumor shrunk considerably as soon as she stopped taking them. Of course, I cannot find the post, but perhaps someone else will.
I really, really, really want to believe that bio-identical HRT is safe, but there is a lot of controversy around it and as long as there is this much controversy around a substance, I personally believe that it is a good idea to use an abundance of caution. There are supplements/vitamins that have firmly demonstrated their ability to reduce/prevent breast cancer recurrence: Vitamin D3 (which is actually a hormone), Coq10, etc....
Why not stick we what is firmly established until it has been decided one way or the other whether bio-identicals are 100% safe or not?
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This is a very, VERY interesting thread! I was on estratest for years....till I got my DCIS dx last April. Had a bilat mast,but drs told me NOT to take HRT anymore, so I stopped suddenly last April. Well, my hot flashes are almost unbearable at times...have them several times a day...few minutes at a time, but feels (and looks) like I am 500+degrees! My family dr put me on gabapentin (neurontin), and I am up to 1200mg now, but do not know if it is helping, or I would feel worse without it. I have much less energy, am cranky (even tho am on welbutrin), and feel like my skin is looking much older. Was thinking about getting off the Welbutrin and Gabapentin and trying the Effexor that is said to help hot flashes. Reading through these posts, there is so much information, and I am thankful for everyones input. I am open to trying supplements, etc., but wonder what would truly help the hot flashes??? If they got all the DCIS (but of course some cancer cells could have been missed), then I wonder why I can't get on some form of HRT? You are all awesome, and I think there are some good ideas here!
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Yazmin - I think I did see someone post (through all of these posts) who noted her tumor being created by HRT but not bio-identical HR.. I agree with you I am just not wanting ANYTHING to go unchecked any rock to go unturned.. there is a problem with our way of doing medicine.. and in Europe and overseas they are using things that we can't even consider because someone has not paid off the FDA yet.. (sarcasm sorry - but sometimes that is how I feel when I see so many women without answers after all this time!).. Research here (in most cases) is so about money instead of lives! That makes me look for other alternatives!
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Deirdre, I totally agree with you! We just do not know because no one has the money to look for alternatives except drug companies, and they have no vested interest in doing so. Thus doctors are forced to follow studies, but how can they when the studies are all one sided.
Wahine, I feel your frustration. Our doctors are willing to put us on all kinds of chemicals for this and that, but they refuse natural solutions because they are not FDA approved. The truth is, these natural solutions have been around for centuries. The drug companies have taken a lot of them and learned to bottle it for a profit. Tamoxifen is a natural substance found in pine trees. Because it is bottled it is considered okay to use. I believe that there is healing power in plants. I just wish people would not get their noses so out of joint when we choose to use the power of plants rather than chemically produced version.
Yaz, I agree we need to be careful with BHRT. That is why I will not go that route without a doctor to help. It is just so hard to find a doctor. The one symptom I am having is constant itching. It is driving me nuts. I do not use any commercial moisturizers anymore, I use straight almond or grape seed oil, but the itching does not stop. My skin is not dry at all. I take lots of omega 3 and vit. E. I think it is hormonal. I would also like to be able sleep a little deeper like I use to. I am reading that progesterone will help with this. Since my progesterone level was almost nothing, this could be the cause. So I am looking into it.
I do not know how anyone can be sure that HRT caused their cancer. I never used HRT and I still got cancer. I wonder if I HAD used it to balance my whacky perimenopausal symptoms if maybe it would have PREVENTED it. Who knows? I have seen studies that go both ways.
Women have not used HRT for the past 10 years, yet the incidence of breast cancer is going up. If HRT is the cause, then why wouldn't the numbers of bc be going down now that doctors no longer prescibe it much??
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So many questions.
So very few answers.
I am a member of the the breast cancer watchdog group Breast Cancer Action. And some of them (at Breast Cancer Action) do not believe that estrogen is the culprit in BC.
We need more studies. And more studies. And then more studies.
By the way, my (serious) issue with itchy skin has been resolved by using Gold Bond all over my body at night, then pure, almost untreated shea butter on top. It's a lot of work, I know. And during the day, I get by with only a natural, locally produced skin oil.
And I agree that research is so much about money that I don't see how we can trust their results. I mean: they are the ones doing the reseach on their own products! Statistics, by definition, can be read any way one's is inclined to read them. Case in point, when I posted links showing how low the benefit is from Tamoxifen, someone responded that my links show the benefits of Tamoxifen, to the contrary. Indeed, indeed: I was dumbfounded that she read my information that way.
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Wahine: I took neurontin after a car accident for chronic pain, be careful they (doc's) ramp you up to an incredible high dose and it just makes you (me) a zombie - DID NOT help at all with the pain and I had trouble forming words!!! It was a seizure med now they tend to use it on everything!
Viv and Wahine: The reason I have questioned if anyone here knows more about progesterine is because they are now testing the lesions/tumors for PR+ - yet when I ask the doc does that mean the same as ER+ - (grows or doesn't grow cells) they really have no answer for progesterine.. and even in some of the studies I have seen with the HRT estrogen is never suppose to be prescribed without progesterine.. So Vivre I don't know what is causing your itch (perhaps nerves?), but I do know that when I was on the progesterine it made me sleep like a baby after about 2 weeks.. and as you said, my estrogen too is so low I am seeing all the same things (with the exception of the itch) and am wondering if we still have estrogen in our bodies perhaps Dr. Lee's explanation about balance is the only answer to that?? We still have estrogen perhaps adding progesterine will help.. I don't know I'm still researching because the sleep (and an excelerated heart beat) were driving me crazy!!! Now I use melotonin extended release (someone here on bc.org recommended extended release - THANK YOU) and do get a better nights sleep so I've found a good substitute for that piece.. I hope you find your answers too!
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OK, I found the post I have been looking for. Here we go:
Deirdre, it was, indeed, bio-identical hormones she was referring to.
Jan 28, 2009 11:01 pm sarabhealed wrote:
Bio-identical hormones are specially made by compounding pharmacies based on saliva testing--you need a prescription from your doctor. Insurance used to pay for it, but many have cut back because of concerns raised by the FDA. I was on bio-identical hormones for 4 years prior to my diagnosis. I felt good and was told by everyone that they were safer. Not only did I get breast cancer, when I went off these "safe" hormones my tumor began to get smaller--so I know they fed it. Having done further research I would not go back on them. Dr. Susan Love and other respected experts say they are not for us...Flax seed has really helped my hotflashes
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yazmin -
Twenty milligram of Prosac a day completely eliminated my hot flashes. I found that I had NO side effects and it does not make me feel drugged.
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I'm sorry, that post was for wahine.
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And I just saw this interesting phrase:
Tamoxifen is a natural substance found in pine trees.
Can someone, then, tell me if there is a pine tree supplement that I could use "in lieu" of Tamoxifen (this makes sense to me: why not use the real thing, instead of a highly synthethized version of it?)
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desdemona, Thanks for the prozac info...I will ask my dr about it. ANYTHING (almost!) to help the hot flashes is worth a try. I was always more hot natured (growing up) than anyone around me...esp with a temp change...always soooo hot...so maybe that is why my hot flashes are worse now. We travel a lot, and the temp changes on the planes just makes me feel like I will pass out! But it only lasts a few minutes, and I fan myself like crazy...lol...I think other passengers prob think I am crazy cause they prob are not hot!
Deirdre, Thanks for the warning about the neurontin...I knew it was zapping my energy, but will really consider getting off of it.
Kathy
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Wahine: Do not use prozac! There is a lot of evidence out there that this is truly a dangerous drug. This is typical of how the drug companies make millions on unsafe chemial solutions while fighting against natural solutions. I personally knew a young man who committed suicide after going off of prozac. This has been proven to happen many times. Here is one of many articles you can find on this drug:
http://www.familyhealthnews.com/articles-prozac-works.html
Desdemona, I find it very ironic that you would be so adament against those of us looking into natural alternatives and yet you promote something so dangerous as prozac??
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There are dozens of pharmaceutical companies making tons of money making drugs whose patents have expired. This is the generic drug business. There are hundreds of supplement companies making billions of dollars on non-patentable supplements. Any suggestion that pharmaceutical companies reject ANY revenue stream shows complete ignorance of the industry and of business principles. Pharma companies RECOVER their enormous costs selling drugs within their patent period. That's how they finance discovery of other drugs. If they did not recover R&D costs, they could not bring new products to market.
FDA approval of drugs is based primarily on the companies conducting clinical trials that prove the safety and efficacy of the drug. Any company that wants to sell a drug that is prescribed to treat a medical condition has to go through the approval process. OTOH, any company selling supplements and so-called natural products does not have to prove anything. Neither safety, nor efficacy, nor even that their products even contain what they claim. Many supplements do not. Their products are not what they claim, and often contain dangerous poisons. Buyer beware.
Vivre, get a clue. The breast cancer rates PLUNGED when HRT was discontinued. Interesting that your acquaintance committed suicide AFTER going off Prozac, yet somehow you attribute this TO Prozac. That's irrational. Prozac is prescribed to people who are depressed. Blame depresson for the suicide, not the drug that probably prevented him from doing it while he was taking it.
Your link is to a site selling useless products like Colon cleansers and liver detoxers.
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wahine -
I hope you don't listen to vivre. Prozac has been a godsend to millions of people, and since it is used to treat depression, naturally there is a risk of the patient committing suicide.
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vivre -
Since everything you reference is from sources strongly slanted against the entire medical and pharmaceutical community, rather than scientific research, I don't consider your information to be credible. I have been on Prozac for 7 years now and I have not suffered from any of the effects described in that article. In fact, I have suffered no ill effects from it at all. Wahine wants to know what will help her with the hot flashes, and she has already used other anti-depressants with bad results. I'll thank you for ceasing to berate me for trying to help someone who asks for it from now on.
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Vivre, I need to post the research on Prozac and like drugs. They are all not bad but you must use them very carefully. Research proves they can be dangerous.
As for the FDA...it's a joke for the most part. I've posted plenty of research that shows that the FDA is VERY poorly managed and manager's can be bought. I do not look as this as a safety net. One small example; many of us take Lyrica, research this drug....can cause tumors. Read the booklet with any drug and it will scare you to death. Bottom line is the drug is tested on so few and only has to work on 10% of the population to get approved. What do the other 90% do with this expensive drug they have been prescribed? And excuse me...but wasn't the FDA who told ever one it was ok to use HRT?
America has more health issue ever sense big medicine started taking over in the '50s. This is why we know we must educate ourselves.
LJ13 feel free to not read this thread if you find it offensive. This ladies all have very good input on research they have found.
Flalady
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This is typical of how the drug companies make millions on unsafe chemial solutions while fighting against natural solutions.
This remark just shows how little you know about how Prozac is made.
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L13 -
Your link is to a site selling useless products like Colon cleansers and liver detoxers.
LOL. You got it.
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FloridaLady, I'm not offended, truly.
I understand the fear that leads people to reject conventional treatments. But giving in to fear is never a good solution.
Someone has to balance out some of the loonier statements made on this forum. I'm happy to be the one.
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Off of Medicine.net (doctor drug site)
SIDE EFFECTS: Fluoxetine, as with most antidepressants, can cause nausea, headaches, anxiety, insomnia, drowsiness, and loss of appetite. Fluoxetine has been implicated in serious skin rashes and vasculitis (inflammation of small blood vessels). Increased blood pressure can occur, and blood pressure should be monitored. Seizures have been reported as has sexual dysfunction. Some patients may experience withdrawal reactions upon stopping fluoxetine. Symptoms of withdrawal include anxiety, nausea, nervousness, and insomnia. The dose of fluoxetine should be gradually reduced when therapy is discontinued.
Antidepressants increased the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in short-term studies in children and adolescents with depression and other psychiatric disorders. Anyone considering the use of fluoxetine or any other antidepressant in a child or adolescent must balance this risk of suicide with the clinical need. Patients who are started on therapy should be closely observed for clinical worsening, suicidal thoughts, or unusual changes in behavior.
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This is from the "About Us" page from vivre's reference on Prozac:
At The Forefront Of The Movement
Since 1990 Family Health News has been headquarters for health conscious individuals worldwide. We provide informative articles on important health topics to doctors and lay people alike in a thorough, well written, understandable way. In addition to keeping abreast of developments in the alternative health field we also provide quality supplements to our discerning customers which include physicians, clinics, practitioners, spas, health food stores and individuals. With an eye toward quality, effectiveness and value we have reviewed over four thousand eight hundred different products in our history. These include: books and tapes, equipment and supplements. Over the years we have selected the best in class for each of 100 different items. By doing this we have become a product and information resource for well informed health enthusiasts worldwide. We prefer quality and value of things that are tried and true over hype and trends.So the evil pharmaceutical companies, doctors, and research community is only out for money according to some of you, but of course, these alternative medicine promoters aren't. Okay....
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Prozac - Alert from the F.D.A.
FDA ALERT [07/2005]: Suicidal Thoughts or Actions in Children and Adults Patients with depression or other mental illnesses often think about or attempt suicide. Closely watch anyone taking antidepressants, especially early in treatment or when the dose is changed. Patients who become irritable or anxious, or have new or increased thoughts of suicide or other changes in mood or behavior (or their care givers) should contact their healthcare professional right away. Children Taking antidepressants may increase suicidal thoughts and actions in about 1 out of 50 people 18 years or younger. FDA has approved Zoloft for use in children only if they have obsessive-compulsive disorder. AdultsSeveral recent scientific publications report the possibility of an increased risk for suicidal behavior in adults who are being treated with antidepressant medications. Even before these reports became available, FDA began a complete review of all available data to determine whether there is an increased risk of suicidal thinking or behavior in adults being treated with antidepressant medications. It is expected that this review will take a year or longer to complete. In the meantime, FDA is highlighting that adults being treated with antidepressant medication, particularly those being treated for depression, should be watched closely for worsening of depression and for increased suicidal thinking or behavior. ***No one ever said that all alternative medicine promoters are all truth either. This is why we have a alternative section so we can discuss the information, research and what other have tried. Not go blindly to a doctor is "schooling" now is a pharm rep. -
This is turning into the Tom Cruise forum.
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Nope! Just educated ladies who are welling to do hours of research and who want to be proactive in there health.
Flalady
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May I make a suggestion? For those of us who do not have a PhD in biochemistry or any of the other medical/pharmacological sciences, it might be a good idea to take those research articles we've found on the net to our local university or medical research institute -- and ask those who actually have training in these sciences to decipher these studies for us. Our docs just don't have the time (nor, frequently, the training) to help us out with this.
There is an incredible amount of junk (of all kinds) on the net, and I hate to see any of it ending up on this thread. We who check into this website are all vulnerable, and it really behooves us to be extra careful with any information we read, or post, here.
With respect, Linda
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Sorry, but I do not think Prozac is a laughing matter. Especially after seeing the pain caused by a young man throwing himself in front of a train after using prozac. This kind and loving young man, thought he was getting better and went off the drug. A week later, he was dead. This drug has proven to cause this effect on many others. But don't take my word for it. Here is what a couple of doctors have to say about it. AND they are not trying to sell anything. I guess I did not realize that other site might be selling supplements somewhere.
http://www.garynull.com/Documents/prozac1.htm
I do not understand why people who are not into alternatives would want to hang out here. Obviously some of you are on a different path. So why do you object so much to those of us who like to think out side the box? What do you have to gain by trying to stir up trouble with those whom you do not agree with. There are plenty of other forums for those who want to stick to conventional medicine. This one is for those who want to discuss alternatives.
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To answer your question, vivre, see lindasa's post above.
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