Positive Obama thread

Amy, I think you're right about that being frowned upon ...  I think someone must pay the ambulence companies to divert ... I am sure that would be a good news story.

RM and Amy:  Thanks for the info.  The reason I asked in particular about what happens to patients who don't pay their bills is because it now seems obvious that public hospitals (especially) need to make up the shortfall, and thus must charge higher than necessary fees for health services. Without doubt private hospitals do as well, if they are forced to take uninsured patients sometimes.  Therefore, those who "can" end up paying more.  And it's a continuum -- the higher the fees, the more the insured also pay, leading to higher insurance rates.

Not so different from our system, in that those who pay taxes to support healthcare subsidize those that don't have enough income to pay taxes.  But I guess the real difference is that we don't, on the whole, resent this!  Healthcare for all is engrained in our psyches.

ljl:  the article you posted from the NYT was written nearly 3 years ago.  Wait times have improved significantly, at least in Ontario, since then.  However, the debate re public healthcare versus private clinics does continue.  The biggest fear has been that the best doctors will gravitate to private clinics, but of the docs I know (and they are some of the best in their field), none has ever expressed any interest in leaving the big teaching hospitals in order to make bigger bucks privately.  They are more concerned with the prestige (and knowledge gained) by working in the teaching/research environment.

Cheers,

Linda

I'm sure every place on this planet has its issues.  There are places better than the US, and places worse than the US.  Depending on who's point of view it is, and what day of the week it is.  But..for right now..we're here.  The US needs major improving on the health care issues and revamp the insurance companies.  They have far to much say in our personal health and receive far to much money for what they give us.  I do think there are better plans out there than what is offered in this country.  That's my opinion.  For those of us that have a great insurance plan, and company benefits, and not much health issues, well..they might feel differently.  It's all a matter of who's eye's you're looking thru.

The people I am talking about are not Mexican, don't know why you keep saying that..

I think I firstly said Asian.  Mostly I see it with Philippine immigrants .. legal ...so, I looked it up and now see that the Philippines were a US Territory, they or their husband must have worked the minimum quarters while it was still a territory. That's in regard to SS ...

But immigrants, legal ones, come here and qualify for benefits such as food stamps, Medi-Cal, welfare without having "paid" into the system.  I am at polar ends with some of you when it comes to immigration ... I see it as people continuing to come here, leave their countries that are riddled with corruption and come to ours ... we middle class, and the weathy, too, are stuck with high taxes.   I believe that our country should have serious talks with countries like Mexico and the ones in S.A. and C.A.  that they should really take better care of their citizens ... spread the wealth, re-distribute it rather than come here and demand services that we can't even get.

There's always someone worse off than we are ... but we'd be better off if we had sensible immigration laws and didn't make the great State of California pay the bulk that we do.  If the citizens of the USA want illegals to have benefits, then reimburse 100%..... there was a vote in the 90's .. Prop 187 ... Californians voted to not pay for the education or other public services of illegal immigrants .... the feds turned it over.... so I am not the only one on my this side of the planet.  Like the article said 60% of the uninsured coming into LA's hospitals are "alien" residents and illegal immigrants.  Now, it would be fine for us to accept that if we also allowed to send the bill to their country, that would solve the problem in my mind!!

Amy,

ijl- Please don't treat me as though you think I'm stupid because we have different opinions. I'm probably more educated, have a higher IQ and have spent more time studying the topic than you have. We disagree and that's fine, but it's not for lack of understanding on my part. I have a lot of compassion for people who are less fortunate and who were born into countries or situations where they can't get adequate care

Where did this come from ? I've never questioned your intelligence or your education. I was just stating my opinion that  it is not possible to take care of everyone due to the scare resources as much as we might want to. And that it's not fair to people who wait in line for years to come here to allow other people to cut in front of it.

I don't even know my IQ, it well might be much lower than yours  

I guess I don't see the word leper as perjorative ..  there are lots of people who use the word leper to describe people with that disease.  I see the word leper just as I do in the bible, patients who have a horrible disease that's not their fault, where they suffer even after being cured because of disfigurement.  If you look up the word leper on the internet, you will see it is a widely used term as the disease is still in existence in India.  I could never see the word leper, a medical term, to be a word as disgusting as the N word.

I don't think thats really fair of you to insinuate that because I call them illegal immigrants, which is what the United States Government calls them, that I am not treating them with respect.  You may disagree with me and I with you but that is not fair to say that I see them as "less than human" ...  I think those are pejorative statements aimed right at me.  Here is a Reform Immigration website from the Democrat perspective and the words Illegal Immigration are all over it. http://www.topix.com/news/immigration  Thou paints me and Republicans with a broad brush.

You know Amy, my daughter had a voluntary art project to do if she wanted.  The project was called WOW... now you can take a picture of a sunset, draw, make a movie of toe nails growing. But my daughter and I decided to focus on the homeless shelter and food kitchen in our area.  My daughter and I raised enough money by going store to store asking for donations for school supplies for our local shelter...so the kids would have backpacks and the supplies to go in them.  One angel from this site, LuAnn, even sent 3 boxes of goodies to help. There were 30 kids.  We don't know if they were legal or illegal or purple. We did such a good job we had left over money and went and bought hygiene supplies, gel, hairspray, tampons for the families that get to live there for 9 months.  We intended to make a cd of pictures showing the differences of what dd has and those kids don't, like "Wow, people need some help or Wow, look what a little help and alot of love can do" ... but after eating at Soup Kitchen with them, playing with them, hanging out, bringing stuffed animals, clothes from my dad to give to them men for job interviews, clothes from my closet ... we took tons of pics ... and they look happy, cared for, everyone looks like us ... and we never made the cd ... yes, they live in a shelter but that doesn't translate well onto our camera, the kids beds looked like hers filled with stuffed animals .. this was not Skid Row ...   So, no, we didn't finish the project, she was happy with what she and I did together, to us, the project was complete.  It was ok to not turn it in ... It was a voluntary project.  We are scheduled with the Shelter for an appointment in June to do it again but this time to get BEFORE they start school.

But we donate our time, we visit the elderly.  We don't get points at church because no one there knows we do it or grades or brownie badges (because she isn't a Brownie, mommy works 6 days a week and can't get her to the meetings). 

I really may have opposite feelings about things but I am respectful of other human beings and I reach out to help with actions and word since I have no money.  When we had money, we took 5 kids names from the giving tree and made sure to fill their wishes plus a Xmas outfit, including socks and underwear, making sure it would also be fit to where to school so the outfit was not a one time outfit. 

Sometimes, it seems to me, that you think I am some rich b*tch who has had everything handed to me.  I have worked hard, not even had the opportunity to go to college, and made a life for myself despite having endured an abusive marriage. Not all Republicans are rich.  I just want to keep what I work for. 

I honestly don't see why people are so afraid of having some government committee decide on their health care (and I did read the committee report on the assessment of the value of something or other I took) and haven't a similar revulsion to some insurance company flunky making a decision.



Maybe I've written about this before, certainly I've thought it. In the early 90's I was a lower level manager in a community hospital - about 400+ beds, mixed use. We had 5-6 upper managers (CEO, finance, personal, etc.), about 15 mid level ones like me - most were nursing unit managers, 3-4 secretaries and maybe 10-12 in records and clerical. One of the secretaries did billing part time.



Whiile working there I watched a program about a hospital in Oregon, pretty much the same size and patient mix. They had a whole separate building full of people doing billing. And that is exactly where your health dollars are going and why the US spends more for less than just about every other industrialized country. Check out all the measures of population health - infant mortality, life expectancy, etc. It takes a lot of time and people power to keep track of what is used for each person and make sure the right company is billed and that they will approve it. From what I can tell government bureaucracy has nothing on what insurance companies can inflict.

mke,

 Can you please name a program that the government did not screw up ? Surely it's not Medicare or SS. Government bureaucrats have no accountability or responsibility and you will have no recourse.

So the automakers  bailout is still not a certain thing. Bush administration is trying to raid TARP to pay for it.

I am watching CNBC with everyone arguing but the person absent in this discussion is Obama. I wonder what his position is. I am surprised he is not there advocating passing Big 3 bailout ASAP. Any ideas why this is not the case?

BTW apparently I am not a minority among  Republicans, latest polls show that Obama approval rates are rising among Republicans following his nominations but decreasing among liberals.

Let's stay on pointe here, shall we? Obama is the PRESIDENT ELECT, not the president, which is probably the main reason you haven't heard more about what he wants to/thinks should happen with the Big 3, ijl. Imagine the fine line he is walking by preparing for/letting everyone know what is happening transition-wise, but not actually trying to take anything away from the current (although lame duck) president. All Obama can do is make suggestions, not policy. That is the senate and Pres Bush's sticky wicket to sort out as his suggestions don't have to be taken into account.

At the risk of sounding confrontational, I'm just going to ask this: is your goal to be argumentative, ijl? That's what your comments come across as. Not against anyone posting here with a different opinion, but the manner in which you express it seems to call us (Obama supporters) all to the carpet, which is so not necessary. It's getting real old, real fast IMHO...

   I believe that our country should have serious talks with countries like Mexico and the ones in S.A. and C.A.  that they should really take better care of their citizens ... spread the wealth, re-distribute it rather than come here and demand services that we can't even get.

Interesting--spread the wealth--one aspect of socialism. Many in the US are against any kind of socialism--even for our own citizens we don't want to share the wealth, re-distribute it! Guess it's that whole idea of "not in my backyard, or not in my neighborhood." Perhaps we should take better care of our own citizens before suggesting that Mexico, CA & SA should do that! Why should they do that? And why shouldn't we do the same?

Wonder if we could refer to those you address as "illegal" and "alien" as non-residents or not US citizens? It seems much more humane. After all they are not aliens--they are human beings, and many of them reside on our continent.

I use the term Mexican because many living in CA assume that the issues of benefits and free healthcare/education costs are  consumed mostly by "mexican." It seems in CA that many people hear someone talking Spanish, and assume they are non-resident, poor, and sucking up free stuff that we can't get! If you have another term you would like me to use, Please what would it be?