Positive Obama thread
Comments
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Amy,
I don't really want to compare who has it worse. But I don't think that a gay student will be denied admission to EVERY college because they are gay. I am not denying that there are some cases where it's true but for majoriy cases it's not true. I know from my kids college experiences that their college had strong and vibrant LGB clubs that were very prominent in their campus lives. So there are some fundamental religious colleges, but why go there when you have a large choice of other diverse colleges that are actually top colleges in this country.
Have they kicked anyone out of Harvard or yale from being gay lately ?
I know that there is a history of discrimination : they did not accept Jews and gays a few decades in the Ivy League before but so much progress has been made since then that we need to recognize and celebrate it.
BTW the difference here is that im my case it was government sponsored and approved. And I could not even be in the closet, as my papers stated that I was Jewish even though I knew nothing of Jewish religion and never set my foor in a synagogue. And could not get into ANY college, unless my parents had money to bribe to let me into one of 1% quota spaces.
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hilarious snl obama parody - "i keep it cool"
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obama on meet the press this morning...
easy to see why 65% of americans think he will be a good president..
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rockmom - that r.v. financing is wack! crazy stuff. amazing how many people never took personal finance 101 and signed up for that kinda stuff. do you ever think of what your next step is professionally or are you going to hang tough in the r.v. biz?
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ijl- Maybe I should have taken the PM advice of others on the thread who said to ignore your circular logic and not to respond back to you, but here I go. You're the one comparing who's had it worse, by claiming you had it worse. The struggles are the same, even if you don't recognize it that. 200,000 gays were killed in hitler's camps, forced to wear pink triangles. I find it hard to believe that that you're looking at possibly being able to hide in the closet as a "lucky" thing. Both situations suck equally and there has been progress, particularly for Jews. While I am glad for the progress, I refuse to celebrate the rights I should have, except on the day they are granted to me. I'm not going to say, "thanks for treating me equal." because civil rights are inalienable rights, not gifts. Discrimination in the USSR, or Iraq or Africa or the USA is wrong. At least Jews and gays were never brought to the country in shackles or driven from our land by USA invaders like native Americans. Not being able to go to college is higher up on maslow's hierachy of needs than the basic rights to be a family, not that being denied education isn't a bad thing. I have an interesting book called Harvard's Secret Court, by William Wright about a period in the 20s when harvard held secret proceedings to oust suspected gay students, some who went on to commit suicide. You'd find it interesting. We who have been discriminated against, I believe, have an even greater responsibility those who are being discriminated against and/or who have been denied rights because of that minority status rather than getting into a pissing match over who's was worse, particularly just because there may have been subtle differences.
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Hi Amy,
I did not realize that there is a clique here that has PM exchange trying to "black ball" some posters like me. I thought there is open discussion where one can express her views as long as one does not attack Obama which I really don't. I stand by previous assertion that I am inpressed by his pragmatism so far and actually am more hopeful for the future.
My point is that we can't expect a perfect world. People will be discriminated in some places for some reason. My parents' friend got a job in a company that did not normally hire Jews. She did not tell them that she was Jewish. A few year later her husband died from a heart attack and she was having a religious Jewish ceremony for him. Her manager showed up unexpectedly to express his condolences, when he saw a rabbi he realized she was Jewish. A few months later there were cuts and she was one of the laid off people. There was no way to prove discrimination since there were other people fired , so having legal protection did not help her. She moved and got another job.
Life is not fair BUT there is a difference between government sponsored discrimination that is still experienced in some parts of the world and people personal prejudices. And that was my point.
Btw, Russia and Ukraine now have jewish religious schools and abandoned government sponsored antisemitism. Does it mean there is no antisemitism ? of course not as there quite a few people who hate Jews, but now Jewish people have an opportunity to go to places where they can succeed.
And finally I could not help but adress one of your statements:
At least Jews and gays were never brought to the country in shackles ...
Nazi saved on transportation costs by just putting them in gas chambers.
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Good morning Obama Ladies...did everyone see Barack this morning on Meet the Press? He was awesome! It's incredible to see we finally have a President that is taking some actual interest in the country! And not his cronies who will make him more money. He hit the "greed" factor right on the head. It is a HUGE problem. One that has been at the helm of this melt down in many different areas. Just because you can...dosn't mean you should. People should really keep that in mind, as it applies to just about everything. Well..I also agree with the "terrorist" phrase being casually thrown about. I will go on the record and say I do not consider Bill Ayers a terrorist. I don't condone violence, however, if you open up a book of American history, you will see that many times in order to get things to change, protest and violence, and sometimes even blood shed were necessary. That is what happens when your upper level government pay no attention to what is going on with the people down below. Unfortunately, it takes getting really loud..and the form that takes can be many things. And if you agreed with the war in Iraq, how can you really call Bill Ayers a terrorist?
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daisy6
Please don't be hostile and mean. I enjoy reading this thread, but do not appreciate comments like yours.
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Daisy,
Are you sure you posted here before? I was curious to see which positings of yours got ignored but did not see any from this froum.
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Daisy wrote:
I thought this was a BREAST Cancer chat room, not a lefty, wacko why vote for Oboma Hussain for President.
How can all of you overlook this man's past ??? He has ties to terrorists who share a common goal - Bring down the greatest country in the world.
Do you actually think that a man with 143 days in the US Senate has a qualifications to become the most powerful man in the world??
Don't his ties to Ayers and other radical persons and groups really terrify you?
"We need Change" is the stupidest reason I can think of vote for someone. Change to what....Socialism? change to what Communism.
Is Abortion your main concern? Most of the women I know who vote Democrat would vote for anything (animal, mineral, vegtable) for president as long as that thing would allow them to kill their baby,.
CAN WE PLEASE PLEASE get back to the main tpoic of the board?????
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daisy - you will fit in quite nicely on the Republican thread.
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RBM,
Thanks for the re-post , as I could not find an original.
Daisy, the election is over and whether you like Obama as our president or not , you probably are hoping he succeeds so that we can get out of this mess.
I did not vote for him but looking at his Cabinet I feel like it is Clinton's third term and it is not that bad. He actually had guts to appoint Larry Summers as his economic adviser. I think that Summers is very qualified but he is the same man who during his career in Harvard said that "innate differences between men and women might be one reason fewer women succeed in science and math careers." Those remarks angered feminists who tried to prevent his becoming part of Obama's cabinet. But Obama ignored all this and nominated the best man for this job. I do give him credit for that.
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Little-G, I thought Obama was his usual articulate self on Meet the Press. The pleasure of hearing a well-spoken president still hasn't worn off for me!
I particularly appreciated his thoughts on art and science, his recognition of how vital our art and culture are to our standing in the world and who we are as a nation:
"Thinking about the diversity of our culture and inviting jazz musicians and classical musicians and poetry readings in the White House so that once again we appreciate this incredible tapestry that's America," he said.
"Historically, what has always brought us through hard times is that national character, that sense of optimism, that willingness to look forward, that sense that better days are ahead," Obama said. "I think that our art and our culture, our science--you know, that's the essence of what makes America special, and we want to project that as much as possible in the White House."
Loved the Clintons skit on SNL last night! Best line: "Like the South, vampires and Britney Spears, we will rise again." Nice to see Amy P. back on. I thought the Obama skit was pretty funny too.
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LAPhoenix,
"Like the South, vampires and Britney Spears, we will rise again."
I haven't seen it but is does sound funny and also very true. Seeing so many Clintonians in Obama's cabinet make me and a lot of my Republican friends feel a lot better about our future.
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g- Obama was brilliant on meet the press. I love his ideas for opening up the white house to the arts and science and bringing in DC school children to experience that. Having a president who values education is going to be a breath of fresh air. I love that he tapped Shinsheki for Veteran's affairs, particularly since he was unceremoniously ousted from the bush regime for having an honest opinion that difffered from Bush/Rove and Company. It's a new day--
ijl- there is certainly no clique, although we generally don't like beating our heads against brick walls with people who have different philosophies because we don't want to change minds, just have pleasant positive Obama related discussions. My friends and I sometimes remind each other to prevent us from being frustrated with others who do not support our liberal, inclusive values. There are cliques here at bco, but on this thread we don't want arguments with republicans, prejudiced folks (not saying that you are one of those because I don't think you are) and trolls (again, not you). Getting into arguments with trolls who come in to type in bold letters and hurt insults is a waste of energy and only encourages them, and if like RM says, the views on the repub thread are like those she copied, I'm sure you can see why. While I saw your remark about being naive as cynical and insulting, I do not think you are a troll. I am surprised that you don't see GLBT discrimination as government discrimnation because it wasn't as overt as what you experienced and I don't see why it really matters if you perceive you had it worse. You don't appear to be empathic to GLBT civil rights as equal to those of jews or blacks or whoever and I think that civil rights are important to everyone, even if one segment of the population, like african slaves, had it worse than other groups. Heck we rounded up japanese during WWII and put them in internment camps and we rounded up middle easterners and put them in GITMO denying civil rights to both those groups and we're still denying civil rights to those at GITMO. We tortured the GITMO hostages, most whose only crimes were that they happened to be middle eastern. It's all wrong.
My personal opinon is that my jewish ancestors who were gassed under the nazis had things much better off the african ancestors of my black friends who were brought over to this country in shackles, enslaved for centuries, beaten, raped, hung, and treated as property, then when freed, suffered under Jim Crowe, had to drink at "colored" fountains, were denied jobs, and discriminated for decades. At least now that discrimination is illegal, although it still exists, particularly in the south. I didn't have any gay relatives (that I know of) killed by the nazis, but I empathize with them nonetheless. The 200,000 gays who were gassed have gotten a lot less ink than the jews, but it's the same awful to me.
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Amy..a new day indeed!!!!!!!!! :-) Opening up the White House...what a concept! A change we wanted...and that is what's on the way. Even better than I had dreamed of!!
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LAP- I didn't think Poeller was going to be back, because she's starring in the new office sit com. I wish Tina Fey was coming back to play characters other than Palin unless Palin happens to do something spoof worthy.
mad- i don't mind the horrid post being shown on RM's post because it shows the original poster's state of mind, which we would have ignored for its sheer inaccuracy and venom. Insulting? No because no sane person believes that
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Amy, the views of reps here is NOT as polarized as daisy ... I just was saying since she didn't like Obama, she might be better off over there. Again, none of us Reps think you guys are so stupid as to vote for an animal, mineral or vegetable ... I'll get in big trouble for this though .... the Reps voted for an animal and a vegetable ... Bush and Cheney!! LOL ...
I swear, I swear, I am still not a democrat! I just never liked Bush!!
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Amy, regarding the Holocaust, there is a wonderful book called, "The Forgotten Victims." When I went to the Holocaust Museum in D.C. it was shocking, overwhelming and disgusting. I cried so much. I hate to say it, but I will subject my daughter to that horror. She has to know, if she ignores it, it will be repeated... it makes the crimes disappear.
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Rock that was a very graceful reply to Daisy.
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Rock: I have read "Forgotten Victims". Cried my eyes out too. Man's inhumanity to man is indescribable.
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Rock: Ditto on the response to Daisy.
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Madalyn,
I am a Republican who voted for Clinton after Bush Sr raised out taxes after his famous "read my lips". There are so called "vocal elements" on the left and right, we should not pay attention to them.
Actually Clinon started his 1st term being more liberal than Obama and trying to change too many things which caused people to elect a Republican congress in 2 years. Looks like Obama studied his playbook and decided to form a centrist cabinet. I think this is the right move so I am optmistic.
BTW I don't hate Presidents, I may not agree with their policy but I don' t take it personally. Well actually I do hate one president Carter for being an anti-semitic SOB.
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ijl-carter is absolutely NOT antisemetic even though republicans have tried to say that he is. Just because he suppports Palestine as well as Israelm and just because his words have been misinterpretted doesn't make him antisemetic. You need to look at your own hatred, prejudice and stance as a perceived victim. That;s all I'm going to say on the subject. That what does not kill us makes us stronger. Lots of people have had challenges in their pasts whether from the micro or macro, there's no need to have a contest for having the worst challenges. You and I need to agree to disagree.
rm- thanks for the clarification. I didn't think that all the republicans were as far off the edge. I had a good laugh over the animal and vegetable remark.
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Amy,
I do not feel as a victim whatever gave you this idea. I decribed my life in a communist country where I was a victim but not here in US.
Carter does not support Palestine, he supports Hamas a terrorist organization that blows upcrowded schools and buses. You and I disagree on a lot of things, but I can't see how you can possible condone Hamas actions. .
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You're painting hamas with a broad brush. Yes they have done some dispicable things, but they were democratically elected, something the US pushed for, and they also did good things for their people like getting them food, schools etc. Trying to work out a compromise isn't the same as supporting Hamas's actions. I support the people of Palestine as much as I support the people of Israel the people of Iraq and the people of the USA. We're all people, some of us just happened to be born in less fortunate places.
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What do you think Michelle should wear?
http://www.wwd.com/fashion-news/dressing-the-first-lady-1875632#/
I like the yellow Diane Von Furstenberg suit for the swearing in and the red Acrim (sp?) for the ball.
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Amy,
I can't believe what you wrote. Do you know that Hamas' openly stated goal is a destruction of state of Israel. How can you justify school bombings ? Hitelr also came to power legally, should we have supported him too following your logic, as you do like Hitler comparisons. He also did some nice things for Germans ..
BTW, the Arab countries do not recognise gays' rights to exist forget right to marry, but I guess it is OK with you.Israel is the only democratic coutnry in that region where gays feel safe.
Iranian president declared openly that there were no gays in Iran, and that is the sentiment that revibrates throug hthe region. And here you are supporting people who would stone gays on the street like dogs and would not be even prosecuted for it.
BTW that is at least one point where you part ways with Obama who publicly stated that he will not hold any discussion with Hamas.He even sacked his adviser Robert Malley who admitted to talking with Hamas. One more credit to Obama.
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ns- i think Michelle will look gorgeous in anything she wears. She has a body to die for and is stunning.
mad- I think Michelle will be able to manage the transition well. She's bright, educated, and seems like she's on the ball. Betty Ford was a trail blazer. She openness about alcoholism and breast cancer opened the door for many, as well as opening the Betty Ford Clinic. Aside from Eleanor Roosevelt, I don't think any other first lady has done more for society and for women.
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Supreme Court won't review Obama's eligibility to serve
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081208/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_obama;_ylt=AqpiApfBUoZTUsElM_6okIiyFz4D...................................................
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Thank goodness they aren't pandering to the moronic prejudiced folks.
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