What do you think about the pregnant man?
Comments
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It's such a complicated issue, and interesting to take on in this forum. my confusion/disappointment in the LG (now LGBT) movement has been the unexplored move away from what I grew up with -- "everyone is beautiful" "you're ok just as you are" -- dykes, femmes, butches, drag queens, cross-dressers, people passing (as straight OR gay) -- to this strange new world of embracing and supporting those in the community who feel so deeply NOT ok about themselves. Rather than help them embrace themselves in all their (our) weirdness and beauty, I feel that they somehow are being impelled to turn to surgery and hormones and god knows what else to BE ok. I have to disagree with Amy on this: "People don't usually decide to become transexual any more than they decide to become gay-- they just are and they know from a very young age, as you said,3-4."
It is hard for me to accept that as some sort of fact -- it's not based on any studies of which i'm aware. It's an incredibly complicated issue, and probably different for every trans-man and woman out there. I guess I hope for a world where young butch women and young effeminate men don't feel like they need to change their gender through dangerous, expensive, and unnecessary surgery. It would be fantastic if the gay community encouraged diversity and allowed us all to live how we wanted, love who we wanted, and be who we are --- without the need for surgery or hormones!
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It is entirely likely that someone who has stopped taking testosterone for a period of years would still look like a man, because many of the effects of testosterone are irreversible - lowering of the voice, facial and body hair, clitoromegaly. With cessation of testosterone therapy and reinstitution of estrogen dominance there would be some redistribution of body fat toward the female form - toward the hips, instead of the abdomen. Most of the changes will remain for the lifetime. Transitioning from female to male with testosterone is relatively very effective and easy, in essence, every boy goes through that at puberty when testosterone surges. When males try to transition to female the process is much more difficult, because the male secondary sexual characteristics are impossible to extinguish.
Transgender people have every right to pursue their happiness and gender identity in the same way other people have the right to be who they want to be. I applaud Thomas Beatie for the courage, sincerity, and commitment he has made toward having a beautiful and loving family, and being the first transman to go public with his status and childbearing. He is not "confused" about his gender at all, it's just that in his family his wife was unable to bear a child, so he took up that challenge, and made every personal sacrifice necessary to do so safely and responsibly to give his child every advantage of health, love, and the security that comes with living in truth, not hidden in a closet of lies.
I salute Thomas Beatie for the tremendous good he has done for the transgender community by taking on this path, and he is doing it very well. Someone must be the first, and it's a tough road, fighting the stigma, lack of understanding, and ignorant judgments of people who condemn that which they do not understand. I have faith that just as at one time people condemned interracial marriage, and then gay marriage, all that changes over time and with the courageous struggles of trailblazers taking a lonely path, and someday transgender marriage and family with be a cause for celebration, not bigoted hate.
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Oh, I want to add - Thomas Beatie's child did get to breast feed. Thomas' wife was so incredibly in sync with his pregnancy that she started to lactate, and when the baby was born she was able to breast feed. I was very impressed with the closeness and bonding in that family. Would that every child have parents so committed to their care.
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You guys are more open minded than I am.
I think the concept of "we're all beautiful" is easier as a concept than reality. While I agree that people can choose to be however they want, I guess for me, the attention seeking behavior is what bothers me. I question on how much he really wants to be a man. He's not taking hormones, he's having babies and wears make up.As those of us with bilateral mastectomies know, they don't make us less of a woman. I guess i'm really sensitive to the plight for LGBT rights and how hard we have to work to be taken seriously. Most states make changing sex on legal documents incredibly difficult People like Beatty complicate the issue and make some generalize that we're all "freaks". In this time when the struggle for our rights are at getting a lot of attention, I think his actions are detrimental to the overall cause. I feel like he's exploiting himself and his children to make money and there's going to be enough stigma on those kids. They do seem like a close couple, though.
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I would be more inpressed if she really were a man.......I mean come on .......No real men have uteruses...........Real lesbians and gay men are not freaks....Only women like Beatty are freaks in my opinion.....She /he seems to me to be extremely confused on his/her sexuality..........Does she/he really want to be a man or a woman?...........Obama you are so right Beatty does complicate things for you and other gays and lesbians.......By the way I am straight but my daughter professes to be bisexual...I don't love her any less than if she were totally straight or gay either.......She is my daughter after all........and no bilateral masts don't make us less of a woman...i had bilats and TRAM recons......my sister had a single mast and no recons...She is no less a woman for that either...I think she is more of a woman for not reconstructing cause I feel she is stronger than I am......Good luck to you on the new bill to legalize marriages for you all....i used to be against it but my daughter has taught me better....Lucy
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There is going to be stigma against gay, lesbian and transgender people until it is "normalized" in the mnds of straight people by them seeing us in person and in the media as normal people similar to themselves. The Beatie family is about as homespun as they come in terms of normal, except that Thomas is transgender. In many people's minds gay and transgender are about the same in terms of "freakishness", especially when many people prance around almost naked in the street, or adorned in leather gear, or flamboyant crossdresssing during Gay Pride marches every year. Ordinary, regular families with children they love and take good care of should be models we want out there for the general public to see. I think the Beatie family is providing an excellent model of a loving family with values that most Americans aspire to.
Far from all transgender people want to become members of the opposite sex from their birth, either. Being masculine identified does not mean a person wants to be a man. There is a continuum of gender identity, and many people do not either identify with or wish to become either sex, but see themselves as in the middle, or as combining both genders. They may call themselves"genderqueer" or "two spirited" or a variety of other names. Many have worked tirelessly on behalf of gay rights for generations now, and do not deserve to be left behind by gay people in gaining their rights, especially not by gay people calling transgender people "freaks" and "perverts", just as straight people have stigmatized them for countless years.
It doesn't require any "attention seeking" behavior to get media attention. In fact, once one single major media outlet gets hold of a story and front pages it, all the others aim straight for that story and land on it like vultures, otherwise they have let themselves get "scooped" by their competitor. You have to fight them off with a bat to get them to leave you alone.
The gay movement has spent years trying to get into the media so that we would be a visible, accepted part of the American culture, so the media is trained to pick up on stories about us. The first person to take a step into the limelight will be a "freak" to some in the public, but after the tenth person does so, it will be old hat, and normal. That is the process that needs to take place.
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I think they are both creepy!!! I have no problem with transgenders, or gay/lesbian lifestyle, He?she ? needs to make up her/ his mind. If you want to be a man, than be a man/ if you want to be a women be a women!!!! Wouldn`t it be weird that 1/2 your body is male, the other 1/2 female!!!! you want to have a child fine, Whats wrong with adoption????? Whats wrong with a surrogate! Is nancy a lesbian??? Is Thomas a lesbian???? When Thomas is done "child bearing" will he then proceed in becoming a man with a penis???? Will that then mean that Nancy`s is now "heterosexual" all to confusing!!! why would they want to expose this child to be the center of such controversy and confusion??? One other question "how is it that Nancy breast feeds this baby"? Am I missing something here or is this just weird!!!!
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No sister, you're not missing anything...It IS wierd...BUT that is the beauty of this country......We have freedom to do these wierd things......He/she (Beatty) in my opinion is extremely confused as to what he/she really wants to be.......I am very open-minded about gay, lesbian and transgender, but when it comes to Beatty it is just not right........That poor kid of theirs is gonna be so confused and hurt and angry when he grows up and finds out who his parents really are.......I really feel sorry for the kid........Nancy breast fed supposedly cause she was so in sync with her "husband" that she lactated when the baby was born.....Actually this is not a unique phenomenon....Lactation can happen to any woman who is of child bearing age whether they have had a child or not.......I think it has something to do with the psyche........Anyway, just my two cents worth..............
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you are right Hollyann, the beauty of this country is freedom, and the greatest change in this country of all is Obama, just not sure this country is ready for males having baby`s, I think as parents we have a responsibility to protect our kids as best as we can, not complicating life for them to fulfill our OWN needs!!!! putting this child in a situation that will impose such scrutiny and attention to me is selfish!!!! Thats my story and I`m stickin to it!!!!
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I don't believe this is an issue of whether we like or don't like, accept or don't accept the gay community, transgenders, etc..
The issue here is about the child. Children that are purposely put in the spotlight...in a negative way..and this is an aburd situation that naturally will be joked about and was done purposely for attention, is child abuse in my eyes.
If they did this quietly and stayed out of the media..well..then...who cares? But they didn't and i for one would want to protect the child.
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I think it is really disgusting when gay people start calling people slightly different from themselves "creepy" and "weird" and "selfish". That is how bigoted heterosexual people look at gay people, and it is incredibly ugly to see gay people do that to a transgender leader.
Someone has to be the first to leave the closet, and yes, their entire family has to suffer because of it. That step is unavoidable, and every movement for equality and social justice must take that step. Even Martin Luther King's family was torn because of the risks of violence and death that stalked his family, young and old, because he was a movement leader. According to some people's definition here, that makes the Reverend Martin Luther King a child abuser, pure and simple. The powers that be use the threat to the family to keep people down and deny them their rights, and someone must be the first to rise above and take on that burden and danger. There is no other way. If open minded people circled the wagons and defended the Beatie family then they would have support and love surrounding them to bolster them, and it would offset some of the public hate.
Just WHY should Thomas Beatie have to choose between being a man and bearing a child? To please who? Who are you to demand he forego the right to bear a child? Who are you to say what his body should look like, and whether or not he should stand tall and proud, out of his closet, to show the world? Who made you God? That's not just self righteous grandiosity, it's hateful bigotry and small minded. He's not confused at all about who he is, you are.
I am transgender and all you gay people, who's rights I fought for and sacrificed for over almost 40 years, now stab the transgender community in the back with this kind of prejudice and hate talk. I feel embittered and enraged to hear you condemn us for trying to live and have families as best we can, like everyone else has a perfect right to. Straight people call gays "selfish", and say they lead a "selfish lifestyle", and if all I had was the condemning and hateful behavior I see here to go by, I might have to agree. You go get yours, and let everyone else fend for themselves, even the very same people who stood united with you when you needed our help, acceptance, and solidarity, when we were all you had behind you in a sea of hate.
Go ahead with your bigotry and judgements, you are feeding the very same close mindedness that will forever deny you your rights and equality, and that serves you right. You make me sorry I ever fought for your right to live your lives. You are no friends of mine.
Unbelievable.
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Rescue I am as straight as they come.......You need to back off a bit...We are only expressing our own opinions.....I have absolutely NOTHING against transgenders, gays or lesbians.......Believe me I really could be against you because of the way I was traised by a bigoted bil....BUT I had a loving mother who taught me better BEFORE she died of breast cancer to treat ALL people the way I wanted to be treated........I still think Thomas Beatty is confused or uncertain as to what he wants to be......It's ok......Alot of transgenders from what I know from friends who ARE transgender go through a period fo uncertainty.....Maybe just maybe Beatty wanted to feel what it was like to carry a child before going the final step to being a man.....Maybe not...I don't know what he thinks.....BUT what I DO know is that this board is for us to openly express our feelings no matter what they are......If you have been offended by me, I apologize...I mean no offense... I am just expressing my opinion as the Declaration of Independence allows me to.........I must repsectfully ask...Are you a breast cancer survivor or a caregiver of someone who has breast cancer?........That is what this site is for....Breast cancer survivors and their families and caregivers.....Not for people to come in here and belittle us on our opinions......If not then you are in the wrong place.........FYI one of my daughter's best friends is a transgender and SHE(my daughter's friend) just got breast implants and is getting ready for final surgery........My daughter's friend is in HIGH school...So please don't tell me I am intolerant......You don't know me..........
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rescue,first of all I am not gay, I am a mom with 2 boys and it seems to me that you are the one to easily hate if someone doesn`t agree with YOUR opinion. I don`t hate anybody, let me make that perfectly clear to you!!!! Let me also make it clear that I hardly look at the Beatties as LEADERS!!! Where do you come up with that we must think King was a child abuser???? Get real !!! What the Beaties have choosen to put this kid through is abuse!!! You talk about social justice and, rights, where is this kids rights, who is standing up for him,this isn`t just about bearing a child, it is about the resposibility parents have to their children for the rest of their lives, they certainly aren`t protecting their baby, no instead they are making a spectacle out of that baby, Why do they need to exploit this child???? protect your child from the media, from a world that can be so cruel,that is what a parent does!!!! that child will be TAUNTED for probably most of his life!! Why would any parents choose that for their kid, Taunting, snickered at, and outcasted!!!! That is a decision THEY made, for that child!!!! It is selfish and irresponsible!!!! Do you really think that their child will grow up unscathed, and accepted by peers, we are not there yet in this society!!!! My son suffers from Tourettes syndrome, and has been taunted his entire life by his peers and adults, and the media, my husband and I from the time he was diagnosed at age 4 (he is now 20)have done evrything humanly possible to keep him out of harms way,to protect his PRIVACY and to provide him with the most normal social setting we could provide,we fight everyday for him, this kid will be classified as a freak just like my wonderful beuatiful son has been, people don`t care to see the person, so Rescue I suggest you look at the bigger picture here, this is someones life, and they are impossing an almost unbeatable challenge for this kid.Had i known my son would have been afflicted with this horrific disorder and face the daily challenges he has faced I would not have choosen to bear children, because my need as a parent to protect a child would "OUTWAY" my feelings of a need to have a child. The Beatties situation confuse me, be a man, be a women be 1/2 and 1/2, be what ever the hell you want, go live your life, but leave the kid out of it, be responsible with someone elses life!!! stay off the stage! Have they refused money for all these interviews they give, are the profits for Thomas`s book going towards educating people about this situation, or are they keeping the profit from his book sales???? You infuriate me!!!!
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Ravdeb- I do agree that the challenges for the Beattie kids will be formidable, though people used to say the same thing about LGBT families too. To me the damage to the children is exploiting them through the media rather than having the "father" give birth.
mybeautiful- I agree that Thomas appears to want to be female, which he is biologically. I haven't seen anything to show he seriously feels like a male. I never understand why people are so intent on spending tens of thousands of dollars to have a biological child when there are hundreds of thousands of waiting children in the US and abroad. Adopting a child from foster care is free. I'm not sure that the Beatties would qualify and be approved as adoptive parents. I don't think anyone in the LGBT community other than rescue look at the Beatties as leaders.
holly- I'm surprised there was a dr. who did elective surgery on a transgendered teenager. I'd love to hear more about your daughter and her friend if you're comfortable posting about it. Is the friend taking hormones?
Rescue- I take issue with your "slightly different" verbiage to compare Beattie with those who are not transgendered "men" having babies. Whether or not the media sought out the Beatties or vice versa, they chose to agree to interviews both paid and unpaid, write a book etc. Thomas chose to keep a mustache while pregnant, bringing attention to himself. Beattie chose to go through steps to become a man. He had his breasts removed, but not his reproductive organs and then he convinced others that he was of sound mind and determination to be a man legally. This is not an easy feat. Bearing children is something only biological woman can do, just like only biologiocal men carry sperm. You seem so angry that there are those of us, straight and gay, who disagree with you. Thomas Beattie is not representative of the LGBT community and we would have a much easier time of equal rights and acceptance if not for Beattie freaking out those who don't understand our community, IMHO.
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nicely put!!!
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Obamas...I asked my dd about her friend and she said her friend just disappeared for 3 weeks and came back to school with implants...My dd doesn't know where her firend got her inplants.......As far as I know yes her friend is taking hormones...I have seen her friend, now known as Sharon, and she look s as female as any female can only she had a flat chest when i last saw her.......My daughter is a member of GSA (Gay Straight Alliance) at her school.......I was against it at first (she was in middle school when she joined....I was "backwards" if you get my drift.......But now I have surprised myself and offered to chaperone a trip in the spring.......My daughter came to me one day and told me she was bi sexual...I was hurt and angry at first...But then realized she is my daughter and it doesn't really matter ........So that is my story.....Hugs!....Lucy
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I think it's great your daughter's middle school has a GSA! I always think of Georgia as being socially conservative. I guess there are pockets of progression everywhere! I can't imagine being a parent and allowing my minor child to have implants or a mastectomy to transition. I would allow the hormones since birth control is hormones, but elective surgery is another thing. I wonder if the friend went to mexico or another country or she just have extremely supportive parents who didn't see the surgery as a big deal.
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My daughter is now a junior in high school and is still in GSA in her school......I guess she has very supportive parents.....My daughter hasn't talked to her in a while.....
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I couldn't care less what you bigots think, and I'm not backing off from my right to stand up for transgender people. We deserve the right to have our families and live with dignity, in the open, just as much as any other people. We aren't going away just because you have grotesque ideas about who and who should not have children, and who has the right to be in the media. You need your consciousness raised about trashing transgender people and raised fast. You can just take your ignorant bigotry and shove it. We will have our families and our children, out and proud, even if we have to fight for them. You disgust me.
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you sure do seem to care, I think you need anger management!!!! WOW!!!! Again my opinion, that is my right isn`t it!!!! Dignity where is yours!!!! The only thing grotesque is the way you post!!!Again my opinion,
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