Bilateral or Unilateral Mastectomy? Implant risks?

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ailenroc
ailenroc Member Posts: 308
edited October 2015 in Breast Reconstruction

I was diagnosed a month ago with DCIS, low-intermediate grade w suspicion for invasiveness in the right breast; a second pathologist ruled it instead as: tubular invasive. I have an additional few & scattered microcalcifications in both breasts. The left was just biopsied too, but finding is benign; lots of fibrocystic tissue.

Because the cancer in the right is multifocal, I will have a mastectomy and the plan is to have immediate reconstruction with silicon implants ... but I can't decide on whether to do the left too. I was initially in favor of that to reduce risk to the left, avoid having to go on tamoxifen. But after reading the Mentor gel implant website regarding all the risks: infection, capsular contracture after first implant (29%) that needs re-surgery, that on average even the most successful implant needs revision on average at least every 10 years; that implants can leak or 'bleed' (even if they are cohesive gel, which is not yet FDA approved), etc.  -- I am wondering if doing both is the right thing.

Has anyone done one or both and has thereafter had regrets / problems? Or really good outcomes in the LONG TERM? I've seen a number of wonderful outcomes short term but don't know of people who are happy with their implant reconstruction long term.

Scared and Confused

UPDATE 1/15/09:  

I decided after a 2-month struggle on a bilateral mx, with the left intended to be prophylactic. Good thing that I did: the left had cancer too.

Since then, I have added a fairly detailed record of the process, recovery and aftermath of the surgery and I have included many relevant research links I found and some of the insights gained in the process, including many practical tips, e.g., how to prepare for surgery and after. There are also lists of pros and cons for deciding between lumpectomy & mastectomy, and uni vs. bilateral mx.

I invite all survivors and thrivers to add to the lists. One thing I found particularly difficult when learning my diagnosis, was to find important information fast. Some of the information that I could have used back then is compiled below. I hope it helps your decision-making and recovery. If you find this post helpful, please add a comment to bump it up for others.

Cornelia

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Comments

  • ehall
    ehall Member Posts: 663
    edited July 2008

    Hi there--bc affects us medically and emotionally.  I chose a bilateral mast with immediate recon. last fall with both in mind. My goals were simple...to only play this round only one time, lowest possible risk of reoccurence, best cosmetic outcome, eliminate other therapies,  etc.  I knew the risks and weighed them against the benefits.  I'm a little over 7 weeks from my expander exchange and feel fabulous.  I had some dark and low moments but no regrets.  The choice you make is a very personal one.  Research and decide whats best for you.  Hope this helps and good luck--Erin   

  • rubytuesday
    rubytuesday Member Posts: 2,248
    edited July 2008

    I chose unilateral because I have a hard time sacrificing body parts to the bc gods.  I also am a 'totally tubular' girl and from everything I've read, it is not an aggressive bc.  That also influenced my decision.  I have a very good match with my good side having a lift/augment.  I am very happy with my decision and am 2 years from my mast/expander surgery.  Now on the other hand, IF the other breast is already giving you headaches, I'd think long and hard about keeping it.  Now that I've had one done, I can tell you without a doubt, at the first sign of trouble in my remaining breast, it would be gone.  Having the unilateral mast made the whole thing 'doable' for me.  The decision is truly personal. Best wishes!

  • Mookaite
    Mookaite Member Posts: 89
    edited July 2008

    Hi ailenroc,

    What does your PS say about your other reconstruction options?  This may help you decide on  the course that is best for you. I think w/DCIS you may not have to rush into a decison either.  

    Best to you,  Mook

  • karen1956
    karen1956 Member Posts: 6,503
    edited July 2008

    ailenroc - I am only 2+ years since Dx.  I had a bilat mastectomy.  I interviewed two surgeons and they both recommeded the bilat. and it was a good thing as the pathology on the prophy side was atypical lobular hyperplasia.  I  have not regretted the decision to do the bilat. Expanders were put in at the time of bilat. I had chemo and rads, so had my expanders for 13 months.  I was not a candidate for other types of recon.  I just had my recon revised due to radiation fibrosis on Tuesday.  Even though I've had to have the recon revised twice, I don't think I would have gone any other route.  If you have time, take it to make the best decision for you.  Hugs to you.

  • ailenroc
    ailenroc Member Posts: 308
    edited October 2008

    Update - In case anyone else is facing the same dilemma.

     I considered at length whether to have a bilateral - left would have been prophlactic.

    I had the BRCA genetic test done - negative: no genetic component in my cancer. I had on the left 8 tests: 2 mammos (one with magnification views), 2 ultrasounds, 1 biopsy, plus  PET, MRI + CT Scans with contrasts: all were negative!

    Following my gut, I decided nonetheless at the last moment on a bilateral m on 7/30:  to avoid future increased risk and worry: THE RESULT: The left did have cancer too!

    However, even without that confirmation of my worst fear, I feel I would not have had regrets about that decision - I felt I researched everything extensively, did the best I could, and realized at the last moment, after all that uncertainty regarding the left (tests were needed because there were 'suspicous' areas, which did not turn out to be the cancer sites though), that I would always worry about the left (rightly so) and that the risk for future cancer was too high for my taste. (I studied extensively the research literature and talked to about 8 BC experts, including Armando Guiliano, who invented sentinel lymph node biopsy). Interestingly, the older and more experienced physicians were more in favor of bilateral: I don't think that was so much due to being 'old school' but due to life experience: they have seen many times that cancer recurs/spreads, and that the risk is substantive especially for a younger person.

    The fact that I had no risk factors, that I am a poster child for 'healthy living' and exercise, etc ... lots of blueberries, raspberries all my life before I ever thought of cancer, had a baby before 25, nursed, etc ... contributed to my decision. There is some discussion in the oncological literature - no good research though - that people like me - healthy + without any identifiable risk factors may be more recurrence prone given that they got cancer in the first place. My reasoning was that, if "I" could get it, despite my many protective factors then what would stop the damn cancer from attacking the other breast.

    I did consider in my decision that I may ultimately be flat chested if construction should fail over the years. I don't think I have the nerve for multiple repeat surgeries. Now that I am presently 'flat' (reconstruction is initiated though) I don't feel as terrible about it as I thought initially I would. I am so to speak 'over breasts'. I just don't want to have any cancer and move on with my life. I recognize that the bilateral m is not a guarantee for a cancer free life.

    My first choice is to have a successful reconstruction, but I have come to understand why some women do not chose reconstruction. I could develop a new look; it is anyway time for reinvention. Looks somewhat youthful, actually ... I could start running marathons without all that front weight ... and my husband still makes love to me ... and if he didn't I would regard it as his problem ... I am really not just my breasts.

    I am recovering fine so far ... although ... I have to have an additional smaller surgery because I didn't have clean margins after mastectomy - not even I would have thought of that possibility.

    Cornelia

  • ailenroc
    ailenroc Member Posts: 308
    edited September 2008

    Update: 9-15-08 - one or both decision making: I've seen since I first posted my question that so many other women have the same question; so I'll keep updating my original post with any new knowledge or insights gained.

    Still no regrets regarding the bilateral. The fact that the left side turned out to have cancer too (although I thought I am doing a prophylactic mastectomy on that side) makes it impossible to have any regrets. And, even if that had not been the case, still I would have no regrets. With something like this you can't second guess yourself after the fact - regardless of what you decided on.

    My re-exision went fine. No cancer cells found. The trouble with that is that no one really knows whether they hit the right spot because any remaining tissue has been moved since the original samples were taken, the expander added, and there is scar tissue forming.  The pathologist could not clearly identify the area. "All she had was a single slide that indicated insufficient margins." The surgeon did the best she could to reign in the area to be reexised; but the bottom line is that no one knows whether that means there were no additional cancer cells and I have truly clean margins or because the reexicision was in the wrong spot. Further digging is not an option.

    No complications thus far; no infections (I did my best to keep everything desinfected post surgeries). I had my my first fill yesterday and can't wait for my expanders to be replaced because they feel rock hard; But ... that will take a few more months ... December maybe. I just started driving again, 6 weeks post mastectomy; probably would have been a little sooner had it not been for the second surgery. I go regularly to the gym: just walking on the treadmill but it is great to see that my ability to walk gets better all the time. About 2 1/2 weeks after surgery I walked a mile ... slowly. But now I am back to walking a steep incline for about 3.5 miles. It is good to get the body moving. I feel much better thereafter. Upper body range of motion is still lagging, but I am going to PT to work on that. There is a good book on the topic:

    The Breast Cancer Survivor's Fitness Plan (Harvard Medical School Guides)

    http://www.amazon.com/Breast-Survivors-Fitness-Harvard-Medical/dp/B0012FBAB0

    It has specific exercises for the different types of reconstruction, which is really helpful, plus lots of other good info: e.g., how to prevent lymphedema.

    Sleeping is tough because the 'breasts' swell and are painful if I am sliding out of an upright position but I presume that is just temporary.

    One bonus, if all goes well, is that the bilateral allows for greater symmetry in reconstruction. Otherwise, the new and the original breast would have been ridiculously asymmetric in my case or would have required additional surgery too to make them symmetric.

    So my hope is now that the next surgery, implant-expander swap, goes well. Doctor anticipates a 3 week recovery (I was hoping for quicker ... but what can one do).

    C

  • smorache
    smorache Member Posts: 10
    edited September 2008

    I was dx'd with DCIS on Aug. 18th, 2008.  I've had the genetic testing (negative) and an MRI, which led to a MRI biopsy which I had done this morning.  I see the surgeon Friday for results.  Interestingly enough, the reason I went in for a mammo in the first place was because I found a lump in the right breast.  During the mammo, they kept calling me in for more pictures of the left.  The left breast is where the DCIS is, and they said the right lump was a fibroadenoma. 

    Originally, the plan was to do a lumpectomy, radiation for 6 weeks and tamox for 5 years.  And have the fibro out on the right side.  However, after the MRI, they found the other "suspicious area" and did the MRI biopsy today.  They also found another mass in the right breast which they said they think is another fibroadenoma.  After the MRI biopsy today, I went for the second look ultrasound for the right breast, but they couldn't find the mass.  I found another lump in the right breast and had the tech check that out, and she says it looks like a cyst. 

    After reading and learning so much from all of you on this site, it has led me to really consider a bilat mast.  I know this is radical, and it has my friends terrified (me too!)  I'm 38, a wife of 16 years and a mother of 3 boys.  I really don't want to keep riding this rollercoaster from hell for the rest of my life.  I know I will always have to be concerned about cancer, but I think the chances of getting it again would be greatly reduced.  I need some opinions on this please. Smile

    I am also considering the immediate reconstruction, but don't know exactly what to do.  Some say it's better to wait, and some say they're glad they got the process underway right away.  I am getting a second opinion next week and am meeting with a plastic surgeon immediately after that.  Your thoughts are appreciated.  Thanks!

  • twinbubbas
    twinbubbas Member Posts: 70
    edited September 2008

    Hi, I'm glad you bumped this post up.  I think this is a very hard decision to make, especially for the DCIS gals.  I hope you don't mind if I add my story (the continuing saga).

    2 years ago was dx'd with DCIS and I did struggle with my decision, but decided on a unilateral mastectomy.  I've been very happy with my decision.  It gave me a free arm/chest to hug my boys with, to sleep on and to function in general during the recovery.  I have high bp so I have to monitor it at home every so often - so it's nice to have a free arm for that and blood tests.  (to avoid lymphedemia)  I've been cruising along for 2 years happy as a lark.  BUTTTTTTT, last week I had a routine mammogram which turned out not-so-good.  They say it's probably fibroadenomas, which are benign, but we are doing biopsies.  This is the 3rd biopsy on this side - and I'm thinking this will be the last.  3 strikes and you're out. 

    So while I don't regret the unilateral decision, I'm going to get the other side done, whether it's prophy or not (depending on the biopsy results).

  • ailenroc
    ailenroc Member Posts: 308
    edited September 2008

    Hi Smorache,

    Whatever you decide, let it be your decision. Friends and family have lots of opinions on this ... but they don't need to live with your body thereafter.

    I am going to post here my pros and cons list that I used in my decision making because you were asking for input. I hope it is useful.

    Pros and cons of bilateral vs unilateral mastectomy

                           

    Pros - do bilateral

    • § It's a largely effective treatment / prophylaxis: no breast tissue, lower BC risk in future
    • § Remaining risk? remaining risk is proportionate to the amount of remaining breast tissue: standard (1-2%) ... however, given that I was diagnosed with invasive, it is possible that I could get recurrence / met static anywhere else
    • § MY RISKS
    • o I am young for having cancer: puts me at higher risk
    • o Presence of diffuse, indeterminate or malignant appearing microcalcifications / changes in left
    • o History of ‘suspicious' findings - though so far benign findings in left:
    • o current PET scan indicates suspicious findings on left
    • o Risk of repeat biopsies in left: recommendation is: If > 2 biopsies: do M
    • o Multifocal in right breast increases risk in left: see below
    • o Dense breasts: difficult to monitor
    • § Survival for patients with bilateral breast carcinoma is similar to that of patients with unilateral disease; however, prophylactic risk-reduction intervention for the contralateral breast should be considered in patients who have multicentric unilateral disease or a positive family history for breast carcinoma http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/80503130/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
    • § ‘Healthy' breast is at higher risk post BC diagnosis; in addition risk keeps increasing each year by about .5% if on Tamoxifen: if not, about 1%
    • o risk of contralateral disease: http://www.cancer.gov/newscenter/pressreleases/MRIContralateralRelease 10% of already diagnosed BC will have contralateral disease (not a long-term study: long-term could be more); literature inconsistent; Hopkins book says: 15-25%, p 122
    • § Hypothesis: no studies but reasonable discussion from oncological POV (Carroll): given that I am young, no clear risk factor, healthy nutrition, exercise - maybe my body ‘just more prone toward cancer'
    • § No Tamoxifen or other meds needed if bilateral? That was the hope ... but not necessarily true (Carroll: oncologist): will be determined after mastectomy by examining: tumor factors, level of invasiveness, oncotype dx test, etc
    • § Would need mastopexy in left for symmetry = surgery, risks, and scars anyway
    • § If I don't do bilateral now, and do mastopexy instead, I will have more scars ultimately on the left; also consider for symmetry mastopexy with / without implant?
    • § More difficult to achieve symmetry if done separately
    • § Bilateral reduces constant worry about cancer in the ‘healthy' breast ... to some extent
    • § If there is recurrence, I will have to go through mastectomy again! Again loss from work; loss of money, agony, etc

    Cons - no bilateral

    • § Still not 100% protection; I will still need to be vigilant about cancer detection: chestwall, elsewhere / systemic
    • § Lymphedema risk ~about risk 30% each side; can be debilitating; if it occurs: permanent -- UPDATE: with a good surgeon the risk rate should be lower; the 30% lump all populations together regardless of skills of surgical team, or patient health status, or number of lymphnodes removed
    • Need to prophylactically protect the affected side from any problems: injuries, sunburn, blood draw, lifting / carrying anything heavy; flying ... Problem: with bilateral: both arms affected and need to be protected forever: reduced functionality
    • § Bilateral = Double the risks:
    • § long-term complications with implants (27% resurgery rate for any complications according to Mentor website / Implant manufacturer):
    • § Risk of capsular contracture 8%
    • § + other complications
    • § risk of lymphedema (30%)
    • § Guaranteed resurgery for implant exchanges; best case scenario: resurgery every 10 years on average
    • § Greater risk for immobility
    • § Greater short-term risks: surgery and immediate complications
    • § You can always do the other one afterwards; but can't undo a bilateral
    • § You lose both natural breasts. Any reconstruction will be never as good as God made them (Dr. Guiliano)
    • § Loss of Sensation in both: not just nipple but the whole breast area: nerves are cut: wouldn't know if I hurt / burned myself -- UPDATE: with good surgical skills, this shouldn't be so bad; in my case now, 6 wks after mastectomy: I have sensation everywhere (not the nipples of course, they are gone); the right side that had the lymphnode biopsy is the most affected, partial feeling but I can already see that feeling is coming back; nerves are regenerating and will continue to do so. The left arm and chest feel already almost normal.
    • § Any future radiation would negatively impact implants: likely to cause capsular contracture / Deformities; Other?  (I tried to avoid radiation in this round: because of side effects; because, very importantly!! one cannot radiate the chestwall repeatedly (can cause cancer itself among other problems) and therefore I wanted to hedge my options by not chosing lumpectomy + rads but going with m; in case I have a recurrence, God forbid, I still have the option to use radiation.
    • § BR may fail? More likely after capsular c. / repeat surgeries / radiation
    • § Bilateral may have psychological consequences, such as negative sexual self-image.

    Good luck to you, keep breathing and make the best choice for yourself,

    Cornelia

  • CAZ
    CAZ Member Posts: 678
    edited September 2008

    Just a note on lymphedema.  I had a PBM for LCIS in June.  Because I did not have invasive disease, no lymph nodes were removed.  My BS said that risk of lymphedema increases with the number of nodes removed; and while the risk is not zero if no nodes are removed,  the risk was quoted as closer to 4% for me.

    No regrets and no fear.  Life is good.

    Carol(AZ)

  • smorache
    smorache Member Posts: 10
    edited September 2008

    ailenroc,

    Thank you for all of your pros and cons.  There is so much to consider!!!  I see all the docs tomorrow, so finally I will have some answers.  Such as, if I will HAVE to have a mastectomy or not.   I'm pretty nervous.....

    Thanks again!

  • lilith
    lilith Member Posts: 543
    edited September 2008
    •  Cornelia, that is a great list, and while I didn't formulate it in that way, that is how I looked at it for my decision. For me, it really felt like the only option.
    • I'll add a few bits on the below bits, from my PS. I realize that some of the things she said are not in agreement with the FDA regulations, but they are in agreement with the EU and Swiss regulations in the matter.
    § long-term complications with implants (27% resurgery rate for any complications according to Mentor website / Implant manufacturer): I think this also depends on the surgeon skills... § Risk of capsular contracture 8% - I asked about all different complications possible, and it appears that with the new mentor gel stuff, she has a capsular rate of less 1%. She specialize in breast reconstructions.§ risk of lymphedema (30%) - lymphedema is only a risk on the BC side, with the lymph nodes treatment. The "healthy" side should not be impacted as it doesn't have the same extensive surgery (unless there is a second cancer in the breast)§ Guaranteed resurgery for implant exchanges; best case scenario: resurgery every 10 years on average - as per my doc, she says that she monitor after 10 years (memory gel, no rupture), and does the exchange only when required, usually after 20. Also, she added that it is a MUCH minor surgery than the initial - only small incision, out with the old, in with the new.
  • ailenroc
    ailenroc Member Posts: 308
    edited September 2008

    Hi Lilith,

    Thank you for your good comments.

    Based on my recent experiences and any additional information I have gathered from doctors and further research, I agree that the Mentor risk statistics don't necessarily predict individual outcomes; individual outcomes can be considerably better given a patient's overall healthstatus, the skills of their surgeons, and extent of operation (e.g., I did discuss with my surgeon not to cut my medial pectoral and the intercostobrachial nerve. She anyway wasn't going to do that but confirmed that this may vary from surgeon to surgeon. If those nerves are cut then sensation may be thereafter more limited. Cutting the medial pectoral nerve may provide a better cosmetic appearance because the skin over the breast will appear more relaxed; problem is that it may also damage sensation in the longterm.

    In addition, I am finding out that one can do oneself a lot in terms of preventing problems (e.g., lymphedema, stiffness) with good preventive measures and good physical therapy (I am working to regain full range of motion and strength). Trying to beat the statistics ... so far, so good.

    Cornelia

  • ailenroc
    ailenroc Member Posts: 308
    edited September 2008

    UPDATE - it is the 2-Month Anniversary of my bilateral mastectomy:

    For all of those who are struggling with the decision-making: lumpectomy vs. mastectomy & uni vs. bilateral - here an update of my short-term recovery. I am doing fine. Amazingly! I feel pretty normal; still a bit preoccupied with my breasts - because they are a work in progress and I can feel them when bending over, or walking up stairs, exercising, etc ... but really otherwise pretty normal. I just had my second fill (am at a total of 320 ccs now) and look like I have real breasts, plenty of them. I am not even sure I need more of a fill; I'll have to see how things develop over the course of the next weeks. No pain with the fills so far. 

    I can do most things, have most of my range of motion back: although the SNB side is still a bit tender and I stretch and move more carefully on the right because of it. But no one who sees me would guess I had recently a bilateral m.

    I did yesterday the 5K walk for the Race for the Cure. It was great to be there and the walk was a piece of cake. There were some 30000 people walking and running at 7:30 in the morning. Amazing to see such a commitment to finding the cure and to helping others and raising awareness. I was impressed and inspired and am planning to build a team for the next year to do what I can to help.

    All the best to you,

    Cornelia

  • soccermom96
    soccermom96 Member Posts: 155
    edited September 2008

    Smorache---We are sort of in the same timeframe.  Got the biopsy results Sept 8, had an MRI Sept 18 and found diffuse disease.  Looking at mastectomy but uni or bi lateral?  So hard to know. Are you too awake at 4am trying to sort through the options?  Surgery is schedule for Nov 12...now which surgery? 

    Cornelia, your list is a godsend.  Thank you.  Ailenroc, you rock!  Going through this with you all is helping to narrow down the choices.  Thanks!

  • ailenroc
    ailenroc Member Posts: 308
    edited November 2008

    3 month update post surgery: Because I see the same question coming up on the boards ''Bilateral vs. Unilateral" -- here an update.

    Still zero regrets. In fact, I almost don't understand anymore why I was so horrified initially at the thought of a mastectomy and why I struggled for a full two months to decide on a bilateral m. So far, having the breast tissue gone is the only reassuring thing since my BC diagnosis. I still worry about cancer ... about making the right adjuvant treatment choices ... about reconstruction surgery (still upcoming) ... what size ... what implant ... etc. ... I worry about recurrence risk and how best to detect any early on ... I can't stand the hassle that BC has caused in my life ... I am constantly busy with my health ... going to doctors ... going to PT ... reading up on it ... I worry about work and trying to catch up with it .... I find it hard to find somebody who I can talk to about my cancer (nobody wants to hear it on a frequent basis although I am still preoccupied with the aftermath and would love to process), ... I worry whether I can still drink some wine or if I am killing myself with it .... and so on ... but really, I don't worry about having no breasts anymore. 

    Because I can't change the fact that I was diagnosed with breast cancer, I am glad that I at least reduced the risk of recurrence. I am also very grateful that I trusted my hunch to do the "healthy" breast too .... since, as we know now, it wasn't healthy after all and even if it hadn't been ... I am glad I don't have to go through this process again ... if there had been contralateral disease down the road.

    I am in the process of implant reconstruction - I had my 4th fill today and had no real problems so far with any of that. I am grateful that one can do these reconstructions - it is just amazing what is possible these days. In clothes, already no one thinks that anything has changed about me. I look as always. Without clothes ... it is the 'under construction look' but not bothersome. Looking forward to getting the next surgery behind me and hopefully forgetting about my breasts thereafter. The absence of breasts has had zero impact on my love life - I know we worry about this upfront, but in hindsight I realize it was no big deal. I am not bashful or self conscious about it so I don't stress him out with asking a hundred times if he still loves me or finds me attractive. I showed him how to be careful with touching me because my upper body tissue post op is still tender ... and otherwise we carry on as always. So, yeah, one can have a sex life after mastectomy. One less thing to worry about. But I find it much harder to have a 'life' after cancer.

    I hope to have progress to report on that issue on the next update.

    Cornelia

  • ailenroc
    ailenroc Member Posts: 308
    edited November 2008

    I just had a conversation with a lumpectomy patient who has had a recurrence and wishes she had opted for mastectomy when diagnosed. That made me wonder, how many lumpectomy patients are out there who are very happy with their results - it seems I see much more discussions of mastectomies than lumpectomies.

  • rubytuesday
    rubytuesday Member Posts: 2,248
    edited November 2008

    ailenroc, I had a lumpectomy 10yrs ago and also had a new primary (it wasn't considered a recurrence) in that breast 2 yrs ago. At first, of course I did the 'why didn't I have the mast the first time around?'.  Well, the answer is just what it was 10 years ago, I wasn't ready to do it.  In retrospect, I'm glad I had my breast for those 8 years and didn't have the more extensive surgery then.  My lumpectomy side was smaller than the other side.  I had an excellent surgeon and really didn't think about it much.  At first, I wore a Wonderbra with the pad in the lumpectomy side (took it out of the other side).  As time went on, I didn't focus on it and just wore regular bras.  In some bras, the lumpectomy side would pucker a little but not enough that I EVER entertained the idea of any reconstructive surgery.   Now that I have actually had reconstruction, I do want (and pretty much have) perfection.  I chose a unilateral mast just because I don't give up body parts easily.  I've sacrificed enough to the bc gods.  It also made it 'doable' for me and I like having a natural side for sexual pleasure although I do have virtually total feeling in my reconstructed breast and it is pleasurable although different from the "real deal".  Hope this ramble answered your questions.  Best wishes

  • lktracey
    lktracey Member Posts: 110
    edited November 2008

    Cornelia,

    Congrats on your 3 month anniversary!  It is so reassuring to hear all the wonderfully positive outcomes from the ladies on this board.  It is just an affirmation that I have made the right decision for me.  I will have my surgery Nov. 11th and can not wait to post my 3 month update!!

    Lauren

  • ailenroc
    ailenroc Member Posts: 308
    edited November 2008

    Lauren: Best wishes for a speedy recovery thereafter!! On the days that it may be tough, remember that this is just temporary. Keep the end in mind.

    Cornelia

  • Annabella58
    Annabella58 Member Posts: 2,466
    edited November 2008

    Hi to Ruby Tues.

    I had the exact same scenario........two timer with a lumpectomy and a smaller boob then a second primary (which is actually a better prognosis for us) in the same boob.  Went to the reconstruct and am very very happy so far.

    I still have to get the "cherry on top" of the foob, but am looking forward to that!

    xox

    annie

  • rubytuesday
    rubytuesday Member Posts: 2,248
    edited November 2008

    Hi Annie, I HIGHLY recommend the 'cherry on top'.  It truly takes the foob to a boob!  I couldn't pass a mirror without stopping to look at mine.  Embarassed  Best wishes!

    P.S. Sorry that we both belong to the same 'club' but it is good to have company and be able to compare notes.  

  • ailenroc
    ailenroc Member Posts: 308
    edited November 2008

    Lauren: since you have your surgery coming up on the 11th I thought I post my post-surgery insights for you here - hope you find something helpful in there. I'll be thinking of you.

    Cornelia

    More tips and info:

    Know that you already are a big step ahead because you arrived at a decision. And know that you will survive the surgery. It will be a hassle for some weeks but you will move beyond that; you will need hands on help, ... from your family, friends; ... and know that you will still by a woman without those breasts, and, very importantly, that you will still be you!

    My best advice right now is:

    to strategize with your family / husband how to organize help for the short term aftermath of the surgery: who helps you out of bed to go to the bathroom (you need pretty much a constant attendant when you get home after the surgery to get up, to get food, to get your medication, to wash yourself, to get dressed, to cheer you up, ... to take care of the kids, run errands, act as a chauffeur, etc - let people know that this is something you'll need WEEKS after surgery still - not just the first 3 days (well, you'll be able to wash & dress yourself sooner). There's apparently lots of variation in how much people are affected; some recover easier and sooner others take a little longer. For me:

    What to expect:

    Week 1: the hours after surgery I hardly remember thanks to the drugs. I remember freezing; they keep the OR ice cold; my family got the nurses to bring lots of warm blankets, which helped.

    Drink lots of water after surgery to wash out the anesthesia. Don't worry if they tell you that you gained 8 pounds in the hospital: the anesthesia makes you retain water and makes you constipated: ask the doctor for a remedy: e.g., milk of magnesia.

    The first week was painful, but then again one is on pain meds and it all becomes a bit of a blur. The pain is certainly uncomfortable, but not excruciating and manageable with meds. Be sure to get adequate prescriptions; Tylenol is likely not going to do it. And don't be shy using your meds (no worry about becoming dependent ... it's not going to happen; you will know when to ease the meds). Doctors recommend that you walk daily to decrease your risk of blood clotting. Initially the walking was a bit tough for me, I felt weak and shaky, but I did it ... with my husband / family's help. After the first week things get fairly rapidly better, walking, moving, getting up. All not quite back to normal, but better.

    Regarding the drains, the ideal situation for me was to put them into the pockets of a shirt or pyjama jacket. I secured them with a safety pin in the pocket, and that way they were close to me but lower than my chest so they could do their job and drain the chest, and they were out of my way so I wouldn't accidentally pull on them. If you put them in pant pockets (don't !) you risk pulling them out or tearing on them while pulling your pants down without thinking when you go to the bathroom. Drains came out after about 10 days.

    Be sure to have some front buttoning shirts available; pulling sweaters and shirts over your head in the first weeks is not an option. Also, ideally have a post-mastectomy bra or two handy before the surgery so you don't need to go hunting for one in the first week. They are available online but better to try them on in a store (medical supply store).

    I developed cording (also in some places referred to as axillary web syndrome) on the right arm (SNB side).  The arm got really painful to move, lots of tightness, and even strings, cords like on a violin going down my arm. This is apparently common (although I was totally unprepared for it) and becomes more manageable with massaging (very gentle) and with time. Keep the arm as much as possible elevated to decongest it if that should occur. Also, do keep moving the affected arm ... gently.

    PS said after surgery not to move the arms much ... but at the same time it is important to get some shoulder movement so you don't develop a frozen shoulder. Discuss on what you can safely do. In my case that was some shoulder and arm movement, but no raising of the arms above the shoulder for several weeks. I did not get a frozen shoulder thanks to regular light movement.

    Have several of the wide ace wrap in the house and some soft gauze pads: you'll need to keep re-wrapping your chest. I found the wrap more comfortable initially than the post-m bra, because it was more adjustable, no seams, etc.

    Week 2: better at walking; washing, getting dressed by myself ... taking it easy but definitely not bound to the bed all day. I still couldn't drive and needed help with getting food, doing errands, opening heavy doors, closing windows, etc. ... but I did go shopping (a little) and out to lunch about 8 days after surgery (take your pain meds with you). At the end of the 2nd week I was pretty much on my feet most of the day, but still taking things easy, sitting frequently, no lifting, pushing, pulling, etc.

    Week 3: My helpers went back home and I coped alone all day, sometimes creatively ... opening some drawers with my feet ... picking things from the floor up with my feet because bending down hurt ... but all in all I managed fine. The biggest issue was staying organized, that there are groceries in the house if you can't drive yet, etc. Pain meds stopped altogether in the 3rd week; not necessary anymore.

    If you can afford it, rent for a week, or so, a hospital bed to get you through the initial recovery period. Laying flat is not good for you because fluids collect in the wound area and it is likely also painful. There are medical supply companies where you can do that. It'll help you to keep your body upright without sliding around in bed and thus it will keep the swelling and pain down. If renting that bed is not an option, make sure that you have plenty of pillows at hand to prop up your upper body and your arms. Alternatively, a great way to get good support for your tortured body is this wedge system:

    http://www.contourliving.com/p-21-backmax-body-wedge-cushion-sets.aspx

    The cushions fit anywhere, are detachable, and the covers are washable. It works great for me. Keeps my upper body upright. I just add pillows on each side to support my arms. It greatly reduces any pressure in the chest in the nighttime. No sliding off ... as is the case with pillows only. I bought mine on Amazon for $99.00.

    Prepare yourself that you will have to ask for help in the weeks to come - I am lousy at that but got better over time. There is no merit in soldiering through this unnecessarily (e.g., not like I: in order not to wake my husband in the nighttime, I tried myself to get out of my bed in the  second night, ... made three steps ... and then crashed onto the hospital floor and hit my head ... So, be sure to ask for help every time you need it!) We are not getting any purple hearts for bravery through this. For the same reason: take your pain meds.

    Organize visits and friends such that they don't all show up at the hospital: you will barely be able to recognize them because you are so drugged out; instead ask them bring you lunch or dinner to your house for the first weeks or however long you need it after the surgery. Many people will want to come right away: chances are, you won't have enough energy for it ... so don't be pushed into seeing your entire office staff in a short time. Trouble is that many think that after the first week you are fine, that they have done their duty ... and you are left to your own devices when you are not quite ready for it yet. Remember that you will need help for several weeks, so strategize visitors accordingly.

    If you can speed read a book or listen to a CD on "preparing for surgery / healing" to psych yourself up. My favorite was:

    Successful Surgery - Health Journeys
    by Belleruth Naparstek ----

    Prep for surgery

    http://healthjourneys.com/product_detail.aspx?id=29

    http://healthjourneys.com/product_detail.aspx?id=29

    I was listening to the visualization and affirmation tapes and some favorite relaxing music, Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" until shortly before the surgery on my I-Pod, which helped.

    Also, since then I discovered the movie: "Why I wore lipstick to my mastectomy" ... that'll psych you up. He can download it for $3.95 from here:http://www.whyiworelipstick.com/v2/home.html

    In the remaining time, enjoy your kids and family and whatever else you like to do most until then.  You will get through this and it will soon be just a distant memory. Keep the end in mind: health and new, good looking breasts.

    A big hug for you,

    Cornelia

    P.S. I asked my surgeon and anesthesiologist to read me ‘healing statements' before I go under. Surgeon said "Sure" we do this all the time. But ... knowing how surgeons are I wanted to make sure, so I asked them to read the statements in the prep room out loud while I was still awake ("to see if they are comfortable with them") and my whole family was around me. The anesthesiologist thought it was a little weird; it was clear that he had never done anything like it. My daughter to asked him to practice with feeling, to practice several times and to say it ‘as if he meant it.' I figured, as a psychologist, even if they don't really get to reading them once they start putting me under, the statements would have their effect on both them and me from the practice. Here they are (make up whatever works for you):

    Healing Statements

    For the surgeon

    BEFORE THE SURGERY:

    Please hold my hand at some point before the surgery when I am still awake. In a way that feels natural to you, please tell me several times:

    • § I care about your health and I will do my very best to remove the cancer from your body.
    • § I will remove all the breast tissue from your body
    • o Note: (by ‘all' I understand that typically 1-2% remain).
    • § You will be comfortable when you wake up and you will feel well and relaxed.

    AFTER THE SURGERY:

    • § The operation went well and you are fine. You will heal very well.
    • § You will be a bit tired but you will be comfortable and relaxed.

    Healing Statements For the Anesthesiologist

    BEFORE THE SURGERY:

    Please hold my hand at some point before the surgery when I am still awake. In a way that feels natural to you, please tell me several times:

    • § I care about your health and I will do my very best to make sure that you will wake up.
    • § I will be attentive to you during the entire surgery. I will take good care of you.
    • § You will be comfortable when you wake up and you will feel well and relaxed.

    AFTER THE SURGERY:

    • § The operation went well and you are fine. You will heal very well.
    • § You will be a bit tired but you will be comfortable and relaxed.
  • ailenroc
    ailenroc Member Posts: 308
    edited December 2008

    Update: 7 months post diagnosis and almost 5 months post bilateral mx ... for those who are in the decision making stage ... and there are so many of you.

    I have chronicled above my path a bit ... a diary of sorts ... with some of the insights gained. I still have zero regrets about having done the bilateral vs lumpectomy despite having had 'only' early stage bc. In fact, everything I have learned since then makes me glad I chose that path. Here a few reasons: from reading many of the threads here, reviewing research, speaking to other bc survivors, it seems that one of the most common treatment complications is due to radiation, sometimes really interfering with the healing from surgery, with reconstruction, causing skin burns, tightness, scarring ... and other side effects. It is actually incredible to me to hear about so many problems with rads ... considering my conversation with an excellent radiologist team at UCLA when I was considering my options: they strongly recommended, since I was early stage, to do lumpectomy and rads ... after all, they said, "rads are not what they used to be ten or more years ago but have much fewer complications" ... which is probably true ... but way too many complications still for my taste.

    Then there is the other major issue: I don't have any breast tissue anymore ... well, not quite ... there is the 1-2% standard left over. John Link, the well known oncologist and author of a series of BC books, told me that because I have almost no BC tissue left, that I have a lower chance of recurrence than women have a risk for bc in the general population! Stunned, I asked him "If that is the case, why don't doctors recommend mastectomies more readily or at least suggest them as an option? Why did doctors recommend to me only lumpectomy and radiation with mastectomy being 'completely out of the question?"  

    He paused, and then said "that is a good question; in fact, there is a lot of discussion about that in the field. To a large extent it is obvious that with the drastically reduced amount of breast tissue, the risk for recurrence is drastically reduced too, especially for women who were early stage, no LN involvement ... but doctors are shy to recommend such a drastic step to early stage patients ... and, of course, there is the 'standard of care' ... tradition ... that says early stage bc can be treated with lumpectomy and radiation ... and then there would likely be a lot of protests from all the radiologists and other stakeholders (e.g., GE, Siemens, Phillips) who produce radiological equipment.  Mastectomies would cut a lot of their business.  The situation reminds me of the SAT scores for getting into college: although they are not really useful, do not predict academic achievement ... they continue to be used everywhere ... because that is the general practice and because there is a multibillion dollar industry behind them.

    Now, with that said, I am not suggesting in the least that every woman should have mastectomies. I think that is a highly individual decision. However, I think that mastectomy should be offered as a treatment option even to early stage patients with a thorough explanation of the risks and benefits of each treatment course.

    I am 2 weeks before my expander exchange. Any advise from anyone on how to prepare will be greatly appreciated.

    Cornelia

  • Eldub
    Eldub Member Posts: 276
    edited December 2008

    Thank you so much, Cornelia!  I am finding your lists and thoughtful updates SOOOO helpful.

    Linda

  • ehall
    ehall Member Posts: 663
    edited December 2008

    Hi Cornelia--I share your  experiences, feelings, and beyond.  I had my exchange in May and was soooo excited to finally see the light at the end of the tunnel--congrats to you!.  As you prepare--know that you'll likely have huge expectations.  But as with all the other BC surgeries, procedures, etc...it takes time for your body to heal.  So don't be disappointed or surprised if initially your breasts resemble flat, round, hamburger buns.  It can take 4-8 weeks and evne sometimes longer for the new breast to fill out and fall into the pocket.  As for the recovery--its very easy--the surgery was 90 minutes or so...in the am and home by lunchtime.  I took it easy for 2-3 days...but was driving by day 4/5.  The usual no lifting, etc. was in order.  Your PS will give you instructions on bras, camis, etc.  Mine told me to wear nothing...but by week's end I was in soft, loose camis.  Other PS recommend bras, etc....so it will depend on your PS perference.  As for meds...tylenol or advil will probably be fine.  Good luck!  Erin

  • MarketingMom
    MarketingMom Member Posts: 47
    edited December 2008

    I applaud you Cornelia for all your research and your opinions. I agree with you that for me, bilateral was the way to go, but I also agree it is a personal decision. I wanted the lowest chance of recurrence due to my young age, my mom had a bilateral (11 years older than I) and is still alive at 77 - it was really a no-brainer for me. My BS said she could do a total skin-sparing mastectomy, and I was very large to begin with. This was the "silver lining", that I could keep all my outsides, go slightly smaller, get a little lift, and make it easier for the PS to do 2 implants rather than have to lift the other one to match the BC side. I am only 2 weeks post-exchange, and I had little pain after only a few days (only on Ibuprofen). It is way easier than the BM, recovery-wise. No drains, so I was ok driving within a few days (although stiff, so try not to for as long as a week if you can avoid it) - just tired for a week or so. Probably the bra/no bra orders your PS will give you might depend on your size. As a 32D, I definitely feel better having them "secured" so they can heal in place. Good luck!

  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited January 2009

    Join the club!!!! I too am scared and confused. I was diagnosed with invasive DCIS,left breast and grade 3. I also have a strong family history with this cancer on maternal and paternal side. Never having surgery EVER, i am a bit freaked out! I have decided to do a bilateral as it is a concern for me in the future. I was also told a bialteral does not mean any difference in recovery time. I also am waiting for BRCA gene test results to see if that will show the mutations or carrier status etc. I am not goin to have to tamoxifen as it looks like i am not producing estrogen and there are no estrogen or progestorone receptors seen in my breast cancer.

    So glad to read that some women have done the bialteral for personal reassurance and such as i feel so out there and alone in this decision until now!!I am just so concerned for the recovery and any side affects that can occur.

  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited January 2009

    Dear Cornelia,

           Thank you for all your work here!! Your overview is a gift!! I am awaitng a surgery date for a bialateral masecotmy for DCIS. I am so in need of this kind of support and will save this as this is my first visit here. All that you outlined is what has been on my heart as i am so concerned on the recovery. Thank you so much and healthy wishes and recovery to you ! I loved that movie  the Red Lipstick one.. i would like to do that for my surgery!!! I have a CD i would love for them to play"?!! I cannot help you with the expander part!!! Hope it all comes in a good way in info for you !!

  • ailenroc
    ailenroc Member Posts: 308
    edited January 2009

    Thank you all for your responses.

    MarketingMom: thanks for the overview of the exchange. I sure hope that mine will go as smoothly as yours and hope that you will keep recovering well.  Do you need to massage the implants? What did your ps tell you?

    Donna: good luck with your upcoming surgery!!! I'll be thinking of you.

    And Linda: thanks for letting me know that my updates here are useful ... I've been wondering. Having my experiences and insights be helpful to others would be one good outcome of this entire bc experience.

    I'm nervous about my upcoming exchange ...  Glad to get the expanders out but ... I can't believe I'm having surgery again ... Hope it all goes well ...Tuesday morning it is. Wish me luck and keep all good thoughts, advise, and support coming.

    Cornelia

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