ER+ and taking Multivitamin that has fermented soy???

findacure · October 2008

Does anyone know or heard of this brand of food based supplements by New Chapter? It's supposedly excellent in absorption, but my question and concern is in the trace of "fermented soy" it holds. Was told by my naturopath to stay away from soy. Does this count or is there a difference between fermented soy and regular soy? I'm sooo confused. We all have our preferences on certain supplement lines, but can anybody share insight to this?

AccidentalTourist · October 2008

This is a controversial issue as soya is both banned and recommended by various authors. I do consume soya but not dairy food and have noticed that others do it the other way round. I am following a book called 'Your life in your hands' whose author had five recurrences until she changed her diet and lifestyle. In fact she recomends soya as she claims that plant estrogens are much weaker and less harmful than our own estrogens and that by connecting to our positive hormonal receptors they are stopping our own estrogens do harm. Apparently since she changed her diet some 15 years ago her cancer never came back. She is also attributing the fact that oriental women have much lower incidence of breast cancer to the fact that they consume soya (particularly fermented soya). On the other hand I have read that a constituent of soya can affect tyroid gland adversely. Confused? So am I.

mocame · October 2008

Are there any multivitamins that don't contain any soy?

findacure · October 2008

Hi M.

Before BC, I was drinking soy milk & ate tofu and edamame amongst a few other soy based foods. Go figure that I come up with being ER+. It's soooo frustrating what we should & should not eat if we are hormone positive!

althea · October 2008

Right now I'm reading a book by Andrew Weil MD "Eight weeks to optimum health." He recommends soy for er/pr+ bc survivors. I find this reassuring on one hand, but on the other hand, he says may. Phytoestrogens "may be able to occupy estrogen receptors, activating them only weakly but blocking access by the stronger foreign estrogens." Cant they figure it out more definitively than that?? I'm no scientist, so I probably have an overly simplistic view of how this information is discoverable, but if they can figure out that tumors feed on estrogen in the first place, couldn't they also figure out which kind of estrogen gets there first?

fwiw, I'm hoping that Weil and others with this same view are right. I've been eating ground flaxseed regularly for over a year and it also has phytoestrogens. It has a host of beneficial aspects. Since it all seems to be a guessing game amongst the experts, I'm just crossing my fingers that I'm not feeding a new tumor with my breakfast every day. I have to admit, however, that it really doesn't stand to reason that the weakest estrogen would be the first to glom onto receptors if there's competition with our own estrogen and foreign xenoestrogens which are stronger.

With all the billions of dollars raised for research, I have to wonder why this hasn't been studied. Or, if it does get studied, would the results ever see the light of day if the plant esters truly do get to the receptors first. After all, what would be the point in tamoxifen, femara, arimidex et al if all we need is some dirt cheap flaxseeds every day for breakfast?

AccidentalTourist · October 2008

There are people out there including Dr Lee of 'What doctors won't tell you' fame, Jane Plant who wrote the book I mention above and others claim that profit has a lot to do with medications being promoted at the expense of nutrition. I guess no one can patent flaxseed.

phoenixrising · October 2008

Hi Gals, this was a big topic for me at the early stages of my cancer and I did a lot of research. Hopefully it will help you and if you want any of the data which most comes from PubMed, I'd be happy to forward it to you.

Soy is really confusing and I think it's because we have so many types. What I've gathered is that fermented soy is safe for bc patients. Unfermented soy is the iffy one. And I think tofu falls in that category. However some studies showed that if you consume huge amounts of unfermented soy then that can offer some protection.

My take on the Japanese women who don't get breast cancer which we seem to always hear about is this. Apparently if you eat a lot of soy all your life you maintain some protection from BC. Some researchers are asking if it's the high veggie content and high iodine content of their food that protects them.

All phytoestrogens are not alike. There is not one piece of data that I've found that incriminates Flax in BC. Quite the opposite. And it's the lignans in Flax that are beneficial in BC. The omega 3's are great for general health. I too avoid soy and take 2 tbsp of Flax/day. There is also some research that states Flax enhances Tamoxifen.

Soy is goitrogenic which suppresses the function of the thyroid gland. Plants in the Cruciferous family do the same, except for Broccoli though. Soy also contains a protein enzyme inhibitor. I'm really disappointed that Andrew Weill would advocate soy to BC patients while it is still so controversial.

Hopefully this has helped and if there are any researchers or med students who would like to tweak any incorrect info that would be great.

Cheers to you all

jan

findacure · October 2008

Thanks for your post Jan. I'd love to read the publications you've found on Pub Med. If you can, would you be able to post it on this forum or pm if you would like. I'm just so confused. Does anyone here also see a naturopath for complementary care? I've recently undergone some testing in regards to determining estrogen levels in my body. Interesting results. Just don't know what to eat, not to eat, what supplements to take, what not to take, etc. It's all so overwhelming. I'm two years out from dx and physically feeling good, just aches & pains from good workouts what not, and little side effects from tamoxifen.

Thanks for allowing me to vent....

ER+ and taking Multivitamin that has fermented soy???

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