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  • Paulette531
    Paulette531 Member Posts: 738
    edited September 2008

    Linda...I am OK, am running on a generator, still no electricity, can access sporadically. Ike kicked our a**, I am 12 miles from the coast, it was a wild ride. Even though my town had a mandatory evac, I chose to stay. The aftermath is horrific. Rosemary might be without elec. still, parts of Houston are still being worked on.

  • FEB
    FEB Member Posts: 552
    edited October 2008

    Paulette

    SO HAPPY you are okay. My heart goes out to you. I can't imagine what you are dealing with. We had a lot of flooding here, and that was bad enough, but nothing like you are going through. I went without power for 3 days this summer, and though I would go nuts. I can't imagine how awful to still be without power and you can't go anywhere because no one has it. PLEASE let us know if there is anything we can do to help!!!

    I posted this on the new thread, but thought I would put it here too. Here is the debate schedule:

    FOXNEWS.COM HOME > POLITICS

    Presidential, vice president debates

    Saturday, September 20, 2008

    By The Associated Pres

      • Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama will participate in three 90-minute debates in the next three weeks. Their running mates, Republican Sarah Palin and Democrat Joe Biden, will hold one debate. All four are sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. The details:

    FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE

    TIME-DATE: 9 p.m. EDT, Friday, Sept. 26.

    PLACE: University of Mississippi, Oxford, Miss.

    SUBJECT: Foreign policy.

    MODERATOR: PBS' Jim Lehrer, "The NewsHour."

    VICE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE

    TIME-DATE: 9 p.m. EDT, Thursday, Oct. 2.

    PLACE: Washington University, St. Louis, Mo.

    SUBJECT: Domestic and foreign policy.

    MODERATOR: PBS' Gwen Ifill, "The NewsHour" and "Washington Week."

    SECOND PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE

    TIME-DATE: 9 p.m. EDT, Tuesday, Oct. 7.

    PLACE: Belmont University, Nashville, Tenn.

    SUBJECT: Issues raised by audience members and submitted by Internet participants, in town-hall format.

    MODERATOR: NBC's Tom Brokaw.

    THIRD PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE

    TIME-DATE: 9 p.m. EDT, Wednesday, Oct. 15.

    PLACE: Hofstra University, Hempstead, N.Y.

    SUBJECT: Domestic policy.

    MODERATOR: CBS' Bob Scheiffer.

    ___

    On the Net:

    Commission on Presidential Debates: http://www.debates.org/

  • ibcspouse
    ibcspouse Member Posts: 613
    edited September 2008

    Summer, don't make us open a new thread called discussions without borders.  You have Alaska on your NW boarder, and the rest of US on the south.  A slice of ham may not get to a vote on what type of bread it's on, but it does have a vested interest in the choice.  Inteligent fact based opinions are rare, don't deprive us of your thought process.

    Now, where is the outrage.  Obama proposed legislation to cut world poverty in half, this at an estimated cost of over 800 billion dollars to US taxpayers.  That is more than the Morgage bailout.  He now wants to give 50 billion dollars to the UN poverty program.  His advisor Volker spent over a year investigating the Oil for Food steal by the UN.  He found  billions in fraud and was blocked in the investigation.   His other advisor Rubin, tried to get A pass on the Enron investigation and get the FED to shore up Enron's bond ratings just days before the colapse and indictments, and this is not even getting to Johnson and Raines who made 150 million dollars from Freddie, Fannie and Leamans Bros.  People on the other threads say vote for Obama because he has a plan on the morgage meltdown, his plan per his own mouth was I will not state a plan at this time.  I am confused, what are other people hearing in the words of this man that I don't.  We want change, is not a plan, it is the slogan of every out of party candidate since elections began.  

    spelling a word the same way twice shows lack of creativity

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited September 2008

    Ya gotta hand it to Bill.........  LOL Wink

    Hillary 2012?????

    ABC News reports this from his interview with Maria Bartiromo on CNBC two days ago----

    Bill Clinton: McCain 'A Great Man'; Praises Wife's, Not Obama's Economic Plan
    September 18, 2008 6:33 PM

    ABC News' Jennifer Parker reports: Former President Bill Clinton has largely kept himself out of the public eye since his wife lost the Democratic primary to Barack Obama.

    However in a rare television interview tonight, the former president called Republican presidential candidate John McCain "a great man" and praised GOP vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin as an "instinctively effective candidate."

    On a day when Obama sought to convince voters that he's best able to handle the economic crisis, the former president said it was his wife, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., who gave today "the most detailed position" on what to do about the financial crisis.

    In an interview with CNBC's Maria Bartiromo, Clinton, who has tried to put to rest rumors of tensions between himself and Obama said, "I've never concealed my admiration and affection for Sen. McCain. I think he's a great man.

    "But, I think, on the issues that matter to our future, the Obama-Biden team is, is more right," Clinton said of the Democratic ticket. "And I believe they're gonna win. But, I think that it will be competitive until the end."

    A ringing endorsement it wasn't.

    The former president said Obama "has offered some very specific and sensible economic reforms and healthcare reforms."

    Clinton, who said he agreed with the US Federal Reserve decision to bailout insurance giant AIG, said his wife who today gave, "the most detailed position I've seen on what she felt we ought to do on the finance crisis."

    The two-term former Democratic president invited Obama to lunch in his New York office last week and has agreed to campaign for him in the coming weeks.

    But if tonight's interview is any indication, Bill Clinton will not be lavishing praise on his wife's former primary rival.

    Clinton predicted the Democrats will win back the White House in November because voters are ready for a change.

    "I think what, what typically happens in these elections if you look throughout American history when the country's in a fix and you know where we're going is not sustainable, then there is typically a breakthrough," he said.

    "I think that the, the people said, 'Well, they [Republicans] had the Congress and the White House for six of the last eight years. We're in trouble. We liked Senator McCain. We recognize he's a little bit of a different kind of Republican. But, we're gonna make a change.' And I think that's where they'll be and I think that you'll see a victory for Obama and Biden," Clinton said.

    However, Clinton, said there could still be  "some unforeseen development," perhaps in the debates, he said, that could threaten a Democratic win.

    "Barring some unforeseen development like in-- something happens in the debates we don't know about. I-- I-- I-- it may not be apparent in the polls until last week or two of the election. But, I believe that it will be apparent on election day. I think that-- I think Senator Obama will win this election," Clinton said.

    Asked if he was surprised by the bounce McCain received in the polls after choosing Palin as his vice presidential candidate, Clinton said he wasn't, and lavished praise on the Alaska governor.

    "No, she's a-- she's an instinctively effective candidate," he said, "And with a compelling story. I think it was exciting to some, that, that she was a woman. It was exciting that she was from Alaska. It was exciting that she's sort of like the person she is. And she grew up in a,  came up in a political culture and a religious culture that is probably well to the right of the American center. But, she didn't basically define herself in those terms," Clinton said.

    "She handled herself very well," he said, "I get why she's done so well. She, she's, it's a mistake to underestimate her. She's got good intuitive skills. They're significant."

    Asked whether his wife intends to run in 2012 if McCain wins, Clinton did not rule it out.

    "I don't know," he said, "You know the one thing we've learned at, at our age is that, you know, I hope we're both active till we're 90 and healthy. But, I think that her focus will now be on what she can do in her present positions to try to help her deal with all these things that threw her into the presidential race in the first place," he said.

    Clinton added, "I think that-- that what she will do is to continue to try to be a national voice as a result of her campaign on economic and healthcare and energy issues that got her into this presidential race in the first place."

    The former president suggested he and his wife have put aside "personal politics" and are working hard to elect Obama.

    "She's workin'," he said of the New York senator. "You see her. She's out there workin' hard for Senator Obama. She, like me, believe he's gonna win. And no matter who wins, we've got to put our, our own personal politics aside for the next couple of years and get after these problems," he said.

    "We've got, we, we've got to shelf the politics for a while and work on the substance. And if we'll do that, the politics will take care of itself," the former president said. 

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/bill-clinton-pr.html

  • FEB
    FEB Member Posts: 552
    edited October 2008
  • ibcspouse
    ibcspouse Member Posts: 613
    edited September 2008

    LindaM.....If I spell it right, Paul Volcker, former FED Chairman and UN investigator on Oil for Food has endorsed and is advising Obama

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited September 2008

    Good article, Susie.  I sent it to my dd. 

    Linda, next time I talk to my dd I'm going to ask her why she's voting for Obama.  Remember, she was on the fence ALTHOUGH she's liberal.  Next time I talk to her I'm going to ask her to give me reasons why she's voting for Obama.  She said she wouldn't vote for McCain AFTER he chose Palin.  All she knows about Palin is what she gets in her emails or her liberal friends tell her.  First of all I have to say LOUD AND CLEAR I have NOTHING against gays.  The weekend dd was here she stayed with her gay friends.  When she came over here that's when she said she wouldn't vote for McCain/PALIN.  I need to remind her that Obama thinks marriage is between a man and a woman.  Of course, he could change his mind. Undecided 

    Summer, why are you leaving?  Did I miss something?  I enjoyed your posts.  Please stay.

    Shirley

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited September 2008

    Paulette, so good to hear you're okay. I know what it's like depending on a generator.  We're on community water now, but when the bad "ones" came through we had well water, thus..a pump!  DH finally got the generator hooked up to the breaker box so we didn't have to run extension cords everywhere.  So far we've been pretty lucky.  Scares me to death to think about a bad one hitting us. 

    Stay safe.

    Shirley

  • pinoideae
    pinoideae Member Posts: 1,271
    edited September 2008

    This woman is a hate promoter.

    Heather Mallick went on a vicious rant aiming her sights on Governor Sarah Palin for an opinion piece published by CBC on September 5th.  Filled in the article were personal attacks on the governor and her family.  Can you say "envy?"

    Although it's been around for some time, awareness of this article appeared to surge recently, and I figure it's fair enough to comment on it now along with everyone else.  It's a little late to give Ms. Mallick fair warning that her articles have made her look - to put it mildly - bad.  No, it's far too late for that.  There is no compelling reason at present to write this article in the hopes of saving her.  Indeed, I'm not even sure many on the right would even want someone like her, who demonstrates such hatred against a woman that is so much more accomplished than she, to switch sides.

    Instead, the reason for writing this is to provide an opposing view, a voice of reason and sanity, but this time with sights aimed at the hunter who delights in unfair targeting of her quarry.  Turnaround is fair play, and if the people of the fringe left-wing like Ms. Mallick want to play a game of attacking someone because of how they look, dress, and the fact they stand for family values, then guess what; there are those of us on the right that have no qualms about criticizing our left-wing opponents.  The main difference is that this attempt will not be based on disgusting prejudice so often used by Ms. Mallick.

    So let's have at it.

    Of the latest things Ms. Mallick has written is a reference to Governor Palin's look as that of a "porn actress."  How quaint.  We all know Ms. Mallick is the chaste, family values woman, don't we?  Actually I have no idea if she is, but I won't question, at this point, why Ms. Mallick feels she is so familiar with the attire of a porn actress.  I suggest the readers draw their own respective conclusions on this one.

    She criticized Levi, the fiance of Governor Palin's daughter, Bristol Palin, for being a "redneck," and Todd Palin as being a "roughneck."  Track is characterized as being "terrified" at the prospect of his going off to war.  She suggested that Mr. Palin, were he a good father, would not have wanted Levi anywhere around his daughter.  Perhaps so, but it's hard to imagine any man that could gain Ms. Mallick's approval.  After all, this is the woman that reportedly said of her husband, "I married him because he is the only man I know who's smarter than I am."  One might wonder about the context of that remark, but it sounds rather egotistical and more like a quote one might possibly expect from a misandrist.

    Then again, "egotistical" is how her articles sound, and a touch of misandry appears to be there, too.   Apparently Ms. Mallick is the judge, jury, and executioner for the entire Palin family, labelling most of them in her harsh manner as having some defect in life.  She was not happy to simply criticize the family, however; she wanted to take on Alaska, too.  In another opinion piece published by The Guardian, Ms. Mallick blasted the 49th State of the Union.  Referring to it as "a frontier state full of drunks and crazy people," she attempted to speak for all Canadians before translating her view to non-Alaskan Americans.  "Alaskans are a bunch of Ted Stevens," she opined, going over his non-technical description of the Internet as if such a narrative is the best Alaska has to offer for a view of technology.

    In the CBC article, however, she spoke of "the white trash vote" that she believes the Republicans are winning.  She defined "white trash" as being different from "trailer trash," but rather, "rural, loud, proudly unlettered (like [President George W.] Bush himself), suspicious of the urban, frankly disbelieving of the foreign, and a fan of the American cliché of authenticity."  She also throws out the possiblity of racism against Senator Barack Obama affecting the election, although she concludes that greed is probably the driving force behind the Republicans.

    Sorry to break it to you, Ms. Mallick, but Senator Obama's socialism, among many other things, is what is costing him this election thus far.  If we wanted to accept the conclusion of racism, however, we could similarly apply this to the other side and say that there are people that are refusing to vote for the Republican ticket because they won't vote for one with a woman on it.  So we have a situation where you're either racist or sexist depending on which ticket you vote for.  Wonderful.  Oh, but Ms. Mallick so eloquently corrects this fallacy by pointing out, "[Governor Palin] isn't even female really.  She's a type, and she comes in male form too."  So then you can't be sexist if you vote against Governor Palin, because she isn't a woman.

    That's right.  To be a real woman, you must be liberal in your political ideology.  So much for the left-wing advocating freedom of ideas, at least for the extreme left.  Apparently a woman gives up her femininity if she decides to be conservative.  The governor is successful, both with a family life and a very compelling political career with lots of promise, with many believing she can one day be a future President of the United States.  By balancing both family and career, she has the appearance in some ways of a feminist, but to the left-wing feminists such as Ms. Mallick, such women are not feminists - or even women - because of their stance on social issues.  Oh well.

    In my view, Ms. Mallick is a representation of blind prejudice, envy, and hate.  While she may attempt to speak for various elements of Britain, Canada, and the United States, I know darn well she does not speak for me.

    11 Comments » I am a Canadian living in Colorado and am very embarassed reading the Heather Mallick article on Palin. This a sad day for Canada when a Government funded station allows such filth. I might expect such an article from cuba but not Canada. Freedom of speech can sometimes go too far. I would hope the CBC would apologize but that is not likely. If the same article was written in the US about one of your leaders it would start world war three/Comment by Larry - September 18, 2008 @ 16:44 pm Typical CBC......... makes being Canadian and having no choice in supporting this sad excuse for a communication vehicle with this hateful jounalist sad and embarassing.Comment by Gail Bird - September 18, 2008 @ 18:35 pm There is no one more deserving of the derogatory description of "white trash" than Heather Mallick. Anyone with that little of intelligence to spew such vitriol with no basis is, in fact, TRASH...NEVER MIND WHITE TRASH. PATHETIC. ALL I CAN SAY TO THIS ‘PERSON' IS-DO NOT LET THE SUN SET ON YOUR WHITE TRASH ASS IN OUR COUNTRY...THE GREAT USA! PATEWY!Comment by Gina - September 18, 2008 @ 19:56 pm Wow, what a great education Heather has! Advanced English literature degree, her alma mater should really be proud, eh? Her dob is listed as 1959......you're kidding us Heather, really? You have the look of an "ole school marm", yes indeed, jealousy is the name of that green eyed monster. I can't believe that you are only 4 years older than Gov. Palin........you look like you could be her mothers age.Comment by Linda - September 18, 2008 @ 19:58 pm This woman is so disgusting it's hard to comment without sounding as vicious as she sounds. I think "Greta" has it right. Heather Mallick sounds like a "PIG". (And, that's her good point) It may come as a surprise, but we, in the US, don't really care what other countries think about our politicians, but we do care about some pseudo intellectual twit taking apart the family of one of our governors. She sounds like a miserable person striking out just because she can.Comment by Ann Ching - September 18, 2008 @ 20:12 pm Thank you Canadian living in Colorado! She is also an insult to women! Heather Mallick has no class! White Trash? Can she define that term? Honest people who play by the rules, survive on modest means, pay taxes, and possess moral values are considered white trash? Some people are not as fortunate to be dealt such a sweet hand, and have an easy life. Is there a silver spoon hanging out somewhere gal? It is amazing what a venomous hateful individual Heather Mallick is! Evidently, she has yet to realize hate will devour her. P.S. Heather you have the freedom to voice your twisted, hateful, miserable mindset because, "White Trash" Americans have defended, and many died for the freedoms available in their country, as well as yours! Hey Heather, go live in Afghanistan, Jordan, or Syria. Woman, you will have something to REALLY WHINE about then!Comment by Doreen Glennan - September 18, 2008 @ 20:27 pm what a dumb ass thing to say coming from a so called educated woman. she looks more like white trash than any other person i have ever saw. she needs to crawl back in her hole and be a good little canadian skank. if we need her advise we will be sure not to ask for it. got to hell heather!!!Comment by patriot man says - September 18, 2008 @ 20:59 pm Heather Mallick, no one cares what a canadian thunder**** thinks. By the way, get out of our country you stupid ****. Its obvious you are lashing out at a successful woman because you are a fat and ugly canadian.Comment by Shane - September 18, 2008 @ 21:11 pm Given the appearent familiarity of Ms. Mallick with pornography and the paleness of her photo, I guess it would be safe to assume that she has a very personal connection with "White Trash". Such wit from another fanatic liberal hate monger. I'm just so impressed. NOT!Comment by Bob - September 18, 2008 @ 23:07 pm As a Canadian, I'm not particularly proud of the fact that I stopped voting years ago. It's not that I'm too lazy or don't care, it's just that I finally just gave up on the never-ending supply of self-serving politicians who seem to appear with increasing regularity on the landscape of what I think is one of the greatest countries in the world. We as a people deserve better. We deserve the best. We deserve leaders who actually care about us and who mean what they say and who have the interests of the individual citizen at heart. As our great American neighbors to the South, you deserve no less, and I believe you have that opportunity staring you in the face in the person of Governor Sarah Palin. Sarah should be the next president of the United States and all of North America, and probably the world, would be the better for it. You know it, I know it, McCain knows it, and yes, even Obama knows it.I just happened to be channel surfing when I saw Governor Palin speak for the first time. My first thought was, "where has this woman been hiding? Who is she?" I was mesmerized not so much by her obvious beauty, but more by her confidence, her poise, the heart with which she spoke, and the common sense behind her words. What a gem. What a national treasure you have there.I prefer to not even discuss the reporter who is the subject of this forum. Suffice it to say that the world has people in it who seek attention and acceptance from others in severely misguided ways. She may have been beat about the head to much a child. One never knows. The best way to deal with this lack of class and professional demeanor is to ignore it and it will have no choice but to disappear and die a quiet death. It makes more sense to champion the cause of the person picked as a target. That would be taking the "high road."I just hope with all my heart that you don't feel for a minute this journalist is a representation of what most Canadians feel about Sarah Palin. I hope you realize the respect and love most Canadians have for the bond between out countries. Doreen put it into context in her statement, Americans have defended, and many died for the freedoms available in their country, as well as yours!" That's true Doreen and yesterday our city buried another of our young men who died defending that same freedom. Another vibrant, gallant young man who died on some dusty road in a far-off desert in the name of freedom for all of us.We feel your pain, our brothers and sisters to the South. We really do. Don't think for a moment you are in this battle alone. Don't judge us by the actions of the few. I suppose the best thing I could possibly say about Sarah Palin is that if she were running for the leadership of Canada, I would break my 20 year hiatus from voting and be first in line on election morning to cast my vote and ensure that this remarkable woman was speaking for me from the highest post in the country.I hope you do the same. Forget about man-woman, forget about Republican-Democrat. Instead vote with your heart for the future of all you hold sacred in your great country.I believe Governor Palin is destined for great things. Get her party into office and destiny will soon ensure that she will become your leader. Don't ask me how, but I believe it may already be written. Now make it happen....RAY-A PROUD CANADIANComment by RAY..Proud Canadian - September 20, 2008 @ 6:37 am Thanks to Ray the proud Canadian What a nice article from you. I am sure many agree with you and I know it would take much more than Mallick to destroy the bond between Canada and the Us.Comment by Larry - September 20, 2008 @ 17:35 pm RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI Leave a comment Name (required)Mail (will not be published) (required)WebsiteContributorsDavidC99 jake98

  • pinoideae
    pinoideae Member Posts: 1,271
    edited October 2008
  • Daffodil
    Daffodil Member Posts: 829
    edited October 2008

    Summer, how good of you to come back to our forum with this great post! I had tried to read Mallick's article and stopped after "proudly unlettered"~~~sheesh, would that more of us had Ivy League educations, from top prep school to MBA! And, no, you can't "buy" those degrees; many have tried and failed. Mallick needs to research the origins of the label "white trash"; she might be surprised.

  • FEB
    FEB Member Posts: 552
    edited October 2008

    Summer=glad to see you reconsidered. That was a great article. I am glad to hear so many people in Canada saw the damage this woman did, and came to the defense of us cousins to the south. Now what is Canada going to do about the CBC? Why are taxpayers continuing to subsidize such drivel? Oh yeah, I forgot we have PBS. Same story.

    IBC, I still cannot believe that Volker (Wolker?) is working with OBama. I thought this guy would want to abolish the UN after what he discovered, and it is obvious that Obama wants to strengthen it.

    Shirley, I saw the great link you put on the other line. I doubt that anyone on the other side will believe it, but at least you put the facts there for anyone to see. I am not going to get involved over there because I have no desire to be part of the inevitable debate that is coming, but it is great that you are letting them know the facts.

    Also Summer, that was very interesting about the jobless rate in Canada. People are complaining so much about our economy, but the fact is, most people have jobs. I know the French jobless rate is well over 10% and for those under 25, it is 25%. The press really overreacts to ours, obviously for political reasons.

    I hope you all will check out the "pray for Breast Cancer, Nov 1st" thread and start spreading the word. While we enjoy sparring and conversing with each other here, we cannot forget what has brought us together, and we need to have as many prayers as we can for our sisters sitll fighting this battle.

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited September 2008

    There is a big drawback in being ambiguous...................

    http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/09/baracks-interfe.html

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited September 2008
    This is from Factcheck.org
     
    Obama's Social Security Whopper
    September 20, 2008
    He tells Social Security recipients their money would now be in the stock market under McCain's plan. False.
    Summary
    In Daytona Beach, Obama said that "if my opponent had his way, the millions of Floridians who rely on it would've had their Social Security tied up in the stock market this week." He referred to "elderly women" at risk of poverty, and said families would be scrambling to support "grandmothers and grandfathers."

    That's not true. The plan proposed by President Bush and supported by McCain in 2005 would not have allowed anyone born before 1950 to invest any part of their Social Security taxes in private accounts. All current retirees would be covered by the same benefits they are now.

    Obama would have been correct to say that many workers under age 58 would have had some portion of their Social Security benefits affected by the current market turmoil – if they had chosen to participate. And market drops would be a worry for those who retire in future decades. But current retirees would not have been affected.
    Analysis
    In our "Scaring Seniors" article posted Sept. 19 we took apart a claim in an Obama-Biden ad that McCain somehow supported a 50 percent cut in Social Security benefits, which is simply false. Then, on Saturday Sept. 20, Sen. Barack Obama personally fed senior citizens another whopper, this one a highly distorted claim about the private Social Security accounts that McCain supports.

    What Obama Said

    In Daytona Beach, Florida, Obama said in prepared remarks released by the campaign:
    Obama, Sept. 20: And I'll protect Social Security, while John McCain wants to privatize it. Without Social Security half of elderly women would be living in poverty - half. But if my opponent had his way, the millions of Floridians who rely on it would've had their Social Security tied up in the stock market this week. Millions would've watched as the market tumbled and their nest egg disappeared before their eyes. Millions of families would've been scrambling to figure out how to give their mothers and fathers, their grandmothers and grandfathers, the secure retirement that every American deserves. So I know Senator McCain is talking about a "casino culture" on Wall Street - but the fact is, he's the one who wants to gamble with your life savings.
    That's untrue. All current retirees would be covered by exactly the same Social Security benefits they are now under what the Obama campaign likes to call the "Bush-McCain privatization plan," which Bush pushed for unsuccessfully in 2005.

    Who Would Have Been Affected

    As the White House spelled out at the time, on page 5 of the document titled "Strengthening Social Security for the 21st Century," released in February 2005:
    Bush Plan: Personal retirement accounts would be phased in. To ease the transition to a personal retirement account system, participation would be phased in according to the age of the worker. In the first year of implementation, workers currently between age 40 and 54 (born 1950 through 1965 inclusive) would have the option of establishing personal retirement accounts. In the second year, workers currently between age 26 and 54 (born 1950 through 1978 inclusive) would be given the option and by the end of the third year, all workers born in 1950 or later who want to participate in personal retirement accounts would be able to do so.
    Nobody born before Jan. 1, 1950 could have participated, and anyone born on that date would be 58 years old now. The earliest possible age for receiving Social Security retirement benefits is 62, for early retirement at reduced benefits. Full retirement age is currently 66, and scheduled to go up to age 67 in coming years.

    It is certainly true that the stock market carries risks, as recent events remind us. The Dow Jones Industrial Average is down nearly 17 percent for this year, for example, and despite gains in other years it is still barely above where it was at the start of 2000. But historically there have also been rewards for those who make diversified investments and hold for long periods. When Obama spoke, the Dow Jones average still stood 305 percent higher than it had at the start of the 1990's.

    Disappearing nest eggs?

    Also worth noting here:
    •  The private accounts would have been voluntary. Anybody fearful of the stock market's risk could simply stay in the current system.

    • Obama's reference to "casino culture," disappearing "nest eggs" and gambling with "your life savings" are also misleading exaggerations. Only a little over one-fourth of any workers' total Social Security taxes could have been invested (a maximum of 4 percent of taxable wages, out of the total 15.3 per cent now paid, split equally between worker and employer.)

    • Speculation in individual stocks would not have been permitted. Workers would have had a choice of a few, broadly diversified stock or bond funds.

    • While McCain has voted in favor creating private Social Security accounts in the past, and endorsed Bush's 2005 proposal (which never came to a vote in Congress), he is not making a strong push for them as part of his campaign. In fact, a search for the term "Social Security" on the McCain-Palin Web site brings up the following: "No documents were found."
    Footnote:  When we contacted the Obama campaign for comment, spokesman Tommy Vietor defended Obama's remarks as accurate:
    Vietor: You don’t have to be retired to rely on Social Security. Millions of people who will one day retire rely on Social Security as they plan their future. Senator Obama's bottom line is absolutely true. If McCain got his way and we had private accounts . . . people who are relying on that money for their retirement would be in a very difficult situation.
    We would grant Vietor a point if Obama had made any mention of workers being fearful of their future retirement (although this would apply only to those who had chosen to participate in private accounts, and not to everybody.) But Obama did not say that. Instead, he referred to "elderly women" in danger of poverty. He spoke of families "scrambling to figure out how to give their mothers and fathers, their grandmothers and grandfathers" a secure retirement – not to families worrying about their own retirement.  If Obama did not mean what he said to be a reference to current retirees, he could say so clearly and amend his words.

    -by Brooks Jackson
    Sources
    The White House, "Strengthening Social Security for the 21st Century," Feb 2005.

    Dow Jones & Co. "Dow Jones Industrial Average Historical Performance" Spreadsheet accessed 20 Sep 2008.
  • suzfive
    suzfive Member Posts: 456
    edited September 2008

    Susie - good article. When I heard Obama say that, I thought the only thing I heard McCain say was that everything would be on the table. I do think young people should have the CHOICE. At the rate Social Security is going now - they may have NOTHING when they reach retirement age. My dh is an economist and when we were younger whenever we had a little extra money he would put it in stocks or mutual funds - while the stock market has had its ups and downs - we are still a lot further ahead then we would have been if we had put that money in the bank or worse spent it. What is so wrong with investing in America????? My kids know a few of the stocks that we have and like to point it out when we are in the store. They will remind me to buy certain things because we have an investment in the company that makes them.

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited September 2008

    Ya gotta love it---which ever way you look at McCain he's not your run of the mill Republican...........LOL

    McCain would banish political office
    By: Mike Allen and Ben Smith
    September 21, 2008 08:57 PM EST

    After holding his tongue for eight years, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is getting his revenge on Karl Rove.

    McCain said in an interview broadcast Sunday night that he would abolish the White House political office, once part of Rove’s extensive empire, and would name Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, to regulate the nation’s markets.

    “I would move the political office out of the White House and into the Republican National Committee,” McCain said on CBS’ “60 Minutes.” “We've gotta have a White House that is without politics.”

    In the same hour-long special with the two nominees, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) said he’s “working harder” than McCain in the presidential campaign.

    McCain also told correspondent Scott Pelley in Wisconsin that he would name New York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, son of former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo and Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) under President Bill Clinton, as chairman of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

    “I've admired Andrew Cuomo,” McCain said. “I think he is somebody who could restore some credibility, lend some bipartisanship to this effort.”

    When McCain said he would abolish the White House Office of Political Affairs, Pelley followed up: “But the model of the last couple of administrations has been to have a political officer in the West Wing with the President, Karl Rove in the Bush administration, and to carry on a permanent campaign. The White House is always campaigning.”

    McCain replied: “It’s time to show the American people that politics will not be part of this massive effort we're going to have to go on to restore our nation's economy.”

    "It is inappropriate to comment because of our ongoing investigations into short-selling during last week's market turmoil, as well as other market investigations we are currently conducting in conjunction with the SEC," said a spokesman for Cuomo, Alex Detrick.

    Cuomo last week said he was launching a "wide-ranging investigation into short selling in the financial market" related to companies whose shares came under assault in the Wall Street crisis, including Lehman Brothers, American International Group, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs. Also last week, McCain attacked the SEC for failing to regulate short-selling, and the commission cracked down on some forms of the practice.

    The two startling statements, which McCain made on CBS News’ “60 Minutes,” are part of McCain’s effort to regain his image as a reformer and maverick, at a time when Obama is trying to paint him his offering a third Bush term.

    McCain acknowledged that he had been imprecise last week when he said that as president, he would have fired the current SEC chairman, former Republican congressman Chris Cox.

    “Technically he can't be, quote, fired,” McCain said. “But I'll tell you: When I'm President, if I want somebody to resign, they resign.”

    Pelley said: “I'm curious. If you wanna fire Chris Cox, the chairman of the SEC, who would you replace him with?”

    McCain: “This may sound a little— unusual, but I've admired— Andrew Cuomo …”

    Pelley: “He's a Democrat.”

    McCain: “Oh, yes.”

    Pelley: “He served in the cabinet of President Clinton.”

    McCain: “Yes. And he did a good job. And he has respect. And he has prestige.”

    Obama also was interviewed on the special.

    “John McCain actually said that if he’s President, he’ll take on and I quote , the ol’ boys network" in
    Washington,” Obama told correspondent Steve Kroft in Nevada. “I am not making this up. This is someone who’s been in Congress for 26 years. The ol’ boy network? In the McCain campaign, that’s called a staff meeting. Come on.”

    Asked about the political consequences of being the first African-American nominee for president, Obama said: “There is a historic aspect to this candidacy. There's no doubt about it. We haven't had an African-American nominee, much less president, before. So, you know, this is something new for America.”

    “The American people are good,” Obama continued. “They are judging me on my ideas and my vision my values, and not my skin color. Now are there going to be some people who don't vote for me because I'm black? Of course. There are probably some African-Americans who are voting for me because I'm black. Or maybe others who are just inspired by the idea of breaking new ground. And so I think all that's a wash.

    “The bottom line is am I viewed as somebody who's going to be a champion for the guy who's waking up every day, working hard for a paycheck. And I'm confident that if they think I can help them, that I've got a shot at getting their vote. And it may take a little more work on my part. But I don't mind working harder than the other guy.”

    © 2008 Capitol News Company, LLC
       
     

  • Daffodil
    Daffodil Member Posts: 829
    edited October 2008

    How annoying that Hollyweird just HAS to insert their views so cleverly into every appearance!

    Emmys were a drag, except for lovely Christina Applegate's turn at the podium. Same winners, year after year~~~and movie and mini-series I never heard of, although some references to John Adams were rather astute.

  • Blundin2005
    Blundin2005 Member Posts: 1,167
    edited September 2008

    About Social Security .... don't touch it.

    I have a private pension (small) that I had in the stock market ... lost 50% after 9/11 with everyone else ... regained .... and put it all into a Fund's money market last September after the credit crisis first broke.

     Now I want to protect it from disappearing completely (FDIC insured? as long as the FDIC survives now straining at the bit).  The point is that the management of my 401K is outside of SS.  The combination of both might help me to keep my head above water.   

    ....the financial system is in real crisis and needs to be fixed ... everyone agrees on this point.  Wall Street was never without risk.  The problem is that the bar of risk was raised higher than sound reason dictates. 

    ... as an administrator for a medical practice, we met with financial advisors for the pension.  These advisers (Wharton educated, private financial managers) never presented high risk assets within the pension.  If individuals wanted to risk more, then were advised to do so outside of the pension structure.  Sound advise.

    ... the adviser also agreed that Internet trading moved money management out of the hands of specialists and into the hands of people without accountability for their choices.  This increased volatility. 

    ... deregulation helped to heal the recession of the 80's (Carter/Regan) and helped to turn an enormous deficit (Bush Sr.) into a surplus (Clinton).  The surplus is now gone (GW Bush) and .... we know too well what now.

    .... chum was in the water and the sharks fed without shame or conscience....or brakes.

    If McCain had not voted along Bush lines for so much of the time I'd buy that he worn the badge of courage.  It's easy to say "I'm gona...." when in fact he didn't stand against the Bush votes.  I like him....I just don't trust him.

    And I don't see the wisdom in his choice of VP.

  • FEB
    FEB Member Posts: 552
    edited October 2008

    Blundin-I  do not understand why all the financial mess is blamed on the Republicans. While I will cede the fact that they had a lot to do with it, the Democrats rule wall street. The dems run Fanny and Freddy. In fact Obama hired one of their bigwigs to be on his committee to select a VP. The guy gave him a lot of great advice huh? BIDEN! Look at the Forbes list of the richest Americans and you will see mostly dems, Start at the top with Gates and Buffett, then there is the GOOGLE and Oracle guys. (sorry I am bad with remembering names). Look at the top entertainers and who do you see, Democrats (from Oprah to Madonna). Yeah I am pissed at Wall Street. The big wigs will still get their golden parachutes and us little guys who invested for our retirement will be the ones to take a hit. And whose campaign do they contribute to?? The democrats, and Obama is a major beneficiary. While he stands on his pulpit saying that he will not take money from lobbyists, he has no problem taking it from their wives, or having these special interests folks hold fundraisers for him. McCain is on record as trying to get Congress to do something about the Freddie/Fannie mess 2 years ago. He saw it coming, but no one in Congress was willing to go along with him because they were getting paid off by the execs, in the form of campaign contributions. Obama is great at hindsight. He tells everyone what the others guys did wrong and what he would have done. But he never tells us what he WILL do except change things. Change what? Tell us what you mean, and be specific! He sweet talks everyone with his fancy rhetoric and everyone carries on about how brilliant he is. Well tell me what has he done with his brilliance? Has he made anything better for the kids in chicago while a community organizer? Has he improved the hell hole schools these kids have to attend or gotten the guns off the street that are killing them? Has he done anything for those of us in Illinois while a legislator or a Senator. Illinois has a HUGE deficit because it is run by tax and spend democrats. Obama was part of this. Show me one thing that he has done for the people here? How can anyone think this guy will do anything for the counntry? Obsma is all talk!! As I said, if he does become president, at least I will not have him as my Senator anymore.

  • Blundin2005
    Blundin2005 Member Posts: 1,167
    edited September 2008

    Hi Linda,

    From what I've read and heard, most acknowledge that the fiscal and monetary policies of both parties brought us to where we are today starting with the Carter administration relative to deregulation that accelerated sharply during this last Administration.  

    The partisan economic ideals contrast sharply--trickle down vs. egalitarian approach to the distribution of wealth.   So as the design suggested, as elections move back and forth, both influences exert their influence in time and over time these influences find parity of purpose.

    Deficit spending is considered smart business when the risk factors are taken into consideration with the ability to recover and balance over time.  It is not intended to be a means in and of itself.  Budgets feel the pressure of systemic problems.  This makes it difficult for States to manage their way out of financial difficulty if the Federal government is not supportive of the efforts.  Virginia is a State that seems to have found a way regenerate itself--a possible model for others.  Each State faces different challenges due to economics specific to their tax basis, industry, and political will.

    No one person can accomplish these difficult tasks alone.  It's their influence that runs deep.  

    Sen. McCain was not alone to recognize the coming problems of the economy.  There's no doubt that the Beltway was awash with lobbyist and pork barrel legislation, dragging of feet and tags.  So frustrating.

    Sen. McCain's recent suggestion of Cuomo (a dem.) for SEC chair is equally impressive....although his reaction last week to Cox' delay to respond to short sellers was not helpful at such a crucial time.

       

       

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited September 2008

    From Bloomberg.com

    How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis: Kevin Hassett

    Commentary by Kevin Hassett
    Sept. 22 (Bloomberg) -- The financial crisis of the past year has provided a number of surprising twists and turns, and from Bear Stearns Cos. to American International Group Inc., ambiguity has been a big part of the story.

    Why did Bear Stearns fail, and how does that relate to AIG? It all seems so complex.

    But really, it isn't. Enough cards on this table have been turned over that the story is now clear. The economic history books will describe this episode in simple and understandable terms: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac exploded, and many bystanders were injured in the blast, some fatally.

    Fannie and Freddie did this by becoming a key enabler of the mortgage crisis. They fueled Wall Street's efforts to securitize subprime loans by becoming the primary customer of all AAA-rated subprime-mortgage pools. In addition, they held an enormous portfolio of mortgages themselves.

    In the times that Fannie and Freddie couldn't make the market, they became the market. Over the years, it added up to an enormous obligation. As of last June, Fannie alone owned or guaranteed more than $388 billion in high-risk mortgage investments. Their large presence created an environment within which even mortgage-backed securities assembled by others could find a ready home.

    The problem was that the trillions of dollars in play were only low-risk investments if real estate prices continued to rise. Once they began to fall, the entire house of cards came down with them.

    Turning Point

    Take away Fannie and Freddie, or regulate them more wisely, and it's hard to imagine how these highly liquid markets would ever have emerged. This whole mess would never have happened.

    It is easy to identify the historical turning point that marked the beginning of the end.

    Back in 2005, Fannie and Freddie were, after years of dominating Washington, on the ropes. They were enmeshed in accounting scandals that led to turnover at the top. At one telling moment in late 2004, captured in an article by my American Enterprise Institute colleague Peter Wallison, the Securities and Exchange Comiission's chief accountant told disgraced Fannie Mae chief Franklin Raines that Fannie's position on the relevant accounting issue was not even ``on the page'' of allowable interpretations.

    Then legislative momentum emerged for an attempt to create a ``world-class regulator'' that would oversee the pair more like banks, imposing strict requirements on their ability to take excessive risks. Politicians who previously had associated themselves proudly with the two accounting miscreants were less eager to be associated with them. The time was ripe.

    Greenspan's Warning

    The clear gravity of the situation pushed the legislation forward. Some might say the current mess couldn't be foreseen, yet in 2005 Alan Greenspan told Congress how urgent it was for it to act in the clearest possible terms: If Fannie and Freddie ``continue to grow, continue to have the low capital that they have, continue to engage in the dynamic hedging of their portfolios, which they need to do for interest rate risk aversion, they potentially create ever-growing potential systemic risk down the road,'' he said. ``We are placing the total financial system of the future at a substantial risk.''

    What happened next was extraordinary. For the first time in history, a serious Fannie and Freddie reform bill was passed by the Senate Banking Committee. The bill gave a regulator power to crack down, and would have required the companies to eliminate their investments in risky assets.

    Different World

    If that bill had become law, then the world today would be different. In 2005, 2006 and 2007, a blizzard of terrible mortgage paper fluttered out of the Fannie and Freddie clouds, burying many of our oldest and most venerable institutions. Without their checkbooks keeping the market liquid and buying up excess supply, the market would likely have not existed.

    But the bill didn't become law, for a simple reason: Democrats opposed it on a party-line vote in the committee, signaling that this would be a partisan issue. Republicans, tied in knots by the tight Democratic opposition, couldn't even get the Senate to vote on the matter.

    That such a reckless political stand could have been taken by the Democrats was obscene even then. Wallison wrote at the time: ``It is a classic case of socializing the risk while privatizing the profit. The Democrats and the few Republicans who oppose portfolio limitations could not possibly do so if their constituents understood what they were doing.''

    Mounds of Materials

    Now that the collapse has occurred, the roadblock built by Senate Democrats in 2005 is unforgivable. Many who opposed the bill doubtlessly did so for honorable reasons. Fannie and Freddie provided mounds of materials defending their practices. Perhaps some found their propaganda convincing.

    But we now know that many of the senators who protected Fannie and Freddie, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Christopher Dodd, have received mind-boggling levels of financial support from them over the years.

    Throughout his political career, Obama has gotten more than $125,000 in campaign contributions from employees and political action committees of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, second only to Dodd, the Senate Banking Committee chairman, who received more than $165,000.

    Clinton, the 12th-ranked recipient of Fannie and Freddie PAC and employee contributions, has received more than $75,000 from the two enterprises and their employees. The private profit found its way back to the senators who killed the fix.

    There has been a lot of talk about who is to blame for this crisis. A look back at the story of 2005 makes the answer pretty clear.

    Oh, and there is one little footnote to the story that's worth keeping in mind while Democrats point fingers between now and Nov. 4: Senator John McCain was one of the three cosponsors of S.190, the bill that would have averted this mess.

    (Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is a Bloomberg News columnist. He is an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. The opinions expressed are his own.)

    To contact the writer of this column: Kevin Hassett at khassett@aei.org
    Last Updated: September 22, 2008 00:04 EDT

     

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited September 2008

    What?  You mean its not appropriate to scare seniors to death? Especially, when you are trying to appeal to those little ole Florida Seniors...............

    Well finally someone is calling Sen Obama on it----From an unlikely source in the not exactly unbiased Washington Post........................

    --------------------

    Closing the Whopper Gap

    By Ruth Marcus
    Monday, September 22, 2008; A15

    The symmetry of sin is suddenly looking more equal. Last week, I flayed John McCain for dishonesty -- flagrant and repeated dishonesty -- about Barack Obama's proposals. Obama was by no means blameless, I argued, but his lapses were nowhere near as egregious as his opponent's. I stand by everything I wrote.

    But a series of new Obama attacks requires a rebalancing of the scales: Obama has descended to similarly scurrilous tactics on the stump and on the air. On immigration, Obama is running a Spanish-language ad that unfairly lumps McCain together with Rush Limbaugh -- and quotes Limbaugh out of context. On health care, Obama misleadingly accuses McCain of wanting to impose a $3.6 trillion tax hike on employer-provided insurance.

    Obama has been furthest out of line, however, on Social Security, stooping to the kind of scare tactics he once derided.

    "If my opponent had his way, the millions of Floridians who rely on it would have had their Social Security tied up in the stock market this week," Obama said Saturday as he campaigned in that retiree-heavy state. "Millions of families would've been scrambling to figure out how to give their mothers and fathers, their grandmothers and grandfathers, the secure retirement that every American deserves."

    This is simply false -- even leaving aside the incendiary language about "privatizing" Social Security. As the invaluable FactCheck.org noted, the private account plan suggested by President Bush and backed by McCain would not have applied to anyone born before 1950. It would not have changed benefits by a single penny for current retirees like the nice Florida folks that Obama was trying to rile up. The sensible notion was that workers at or near retirement age should be able to rely on promised benefits and should not be subject to the vicissitudes of short-term market fluctuations.

    There is a fair argument to be had about the wisdom of having workers invest part of their Social Security taxes in private accounts. This year's plunge buttresses the contention that such accounts are too risky to comprise even part of what was conceived, after all, to serve as a safety net.

    But Obama's cartoon version of private accounts is not what Bush suggested, and it certainly is not something being peddled by McCain now. Under Bush's plan, workers would have been able to invest less than a third of their Social Security taxes in private accounts. Unless they specifically chose a riskier course, workers, beginning at age 47, would have had their investments put in "life-cycle portfolios" that shifted from high-growth funds to more secure bonds as retirement approached.

    Obama's ads on Social Security are equally misleading. "Cutting benefits in half, risking Social Security on the stock market," it warns. "The Bush-McCain privatization plan. Can you really afford more of the same?"

    Cutting benefits in half? As FactCheck notes, "this is a rank misrepresentation." No one at or near retirement age would have been affected. Those retiring in the future would not have received benefits as big as what they have been promised under current law -- but those promises cannot be paid for under the current system or even through the payroll tax increase on the wealthy that Obama has proposed.

    The Bush plan would have limited benefits for some workers to growing at the rate of inflation rather than at the generally faster pace of wages. In other words, these workers would be getting benefits equal in real dollar value to those received by current retirees. But under the "progressive price indexing" approach endorsed by the president, lower-income workers would continue to receive all their promised benefits; medium-income workers would have their benefits reduced somewhat; and high-income workers would take the biggest hit.

    The Obama campaign stretches the truth beyond recognition when it says that this would cut benefits in half. Under progressive price indexing, the average-earning worker would see a 28 percent cut in promised benefits -- in 2075. In other words, trims of that magnitude would affect workers not yet born. Today's average-earning 25-year-old would experience much smaller reductions in promised benefits upon reaching retirement age -- more like 16 percent.

    And the only way the Obama campaign can inflate the supposed benefit cut to "half" is by assuming that the change in calculating benefit growth would be applied to all workers, not just the top tier. In that case, workers not yet born would get 49 percent of the benefits not yet promised to them by 2075. Doubt these numbers? They come from Jason Furman, now the Obama campaign's chief economic adviser.

    To Democrats who worry about whether their nominee is willing to do whatever it takes to win: You can calm down.

    marcusr@washpost.com

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited September 2008

    Thank you, Susie, for printing those very good articles.  All of this is getting downright nauseating.  I swear, I don't know how much more of these lies I can take.  I want to stand on my roof top (two stories) with a bull horn and yell....DON'T FALL FOR THE DEMOCRAT'S $HI+ 

    I hope you posted these on the "undecided."

    I was listening to Fox while getting ready to take my cat to the vet.  I heard that Biden won't release his earmarks.  And that Obama has asked for millions.  And McCain has asked for $0.00!  Remember, Fox IS fair and balanced!  I am so angry right now!  I'm TRYING to educate my liberal dd who WAS on the fence before her liberal friends talked her into voting for Obama.  Doesn't she know her mom knows best!  As an attorney and a young woman of the almost age of 39 she STILL comes to me for advice.  Why in the heck doesn't she listen to me!

    Sorry, just venting.

    I'm going to try to find some links about this housing crap.  I heard that Bush has been warning about this mess since 2001!  I need to find some truths.  I'm getting sick of hearing how horrible the republicans are...SICK, SICK SICK!

  • Daffodil
    Daffodil Member Posts: 829
    edited October 2008

    Shirley, try Mark Levin's web site!

    Anyone get the e-mail rumor re Biden's resigning in favor of Hillary? Snopes can't disprove it.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited September 2008

    Pansy, thanks.  I've been checking it out this morning.  However, I'm sure my dd won't listen.  she responded to the two emails I sent her, "They're all a bunch of near-liars... your  candidate is no different..." 

    I haven't heard anything about Biden resigning.  However, a funny nightmare.  LOL

    My brother called me one morning about a week ago...after the statement by Biden..Hillary would have been a better vp candidate..something like that.  I know you've heard about it.  My brother said he woke up about 4:30 AM and had an epiphany.  He said that he kept thinking about what Biden said..Hillary better pick.  He said he thought that Biden would back out and Hillary would be the vp candidate.  He said he COULD NOT get back to sleep.  LOL

    Who knows what's going to happen.  It wouldn't surprise me.  Remember Guiliani saying in his RNC speech..Biden better get in writing that he was Obama's VP.  Obama's definitely in favor of change -- changing his mind!  LOL

    Shirley

  • suzfive
    suzfive Member Posts: 456
    edited September 2008

    I got my Sarah! McCain Palin sign in the mail yesterday and already people are ringing my doorbell asking where I got it.

    I live in Wisconsin which is really close. Obama has an ad out now which is a complete lie. Basically it says that McCain is against stem cell research which is not true - he is for it. Don't know how it will play here though because McCain has been running ads about how he is for stem cell research for a few weeks now. Maybe it will just show people what a lier Obama is.

    This whole financial mess is the Democrats fault - now they are trying to blame it on the Republicans. If the Democrats had sponsored a bill two years ago to deal with this it would be all over the media, but no since McCain was a co-sponsor they are quiet about it.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited September 2008

    Well, Suzfive, don't go over to the thread for the "undecideds."  I hijacked it!  LOL  I posted that piece about McCain sponsoring that bill TWICE and said I'd continue to do so until someone responded. LOL  Well, I think Beesie sort of responded, but no LIBERAL Americans.  Seems like the poster thinks I hijack a lot of threads.  WTH?    I'm only trying to get the word out amongst those who are undecided.  I guess I'll keep my mouth shut (hands tied) when it comes to that thread.

  • SherriM
    SherriM Member Posts: 179
    edited September 2008

    I'm sorry, I really can't figure out why everyone, even republicans, thinks Obama should have picked Hillary....I mean there was a reason Obama's folks didn't vet her--she couldn't pass the vetting process with her scandal-ridden background!! 

    Sometimes I think the public has gotten so accustomed to the Clinton's being involved in scandal that no one pays attention anymore, and they continue to get away with their corruption.  We bought a DVD called "Hillary: The Movie".  Boy, was that an eye-opener.  It's just been one scandal after another, after another, after another with them, and it's not just Bill--it's her.  I think this is one of the reasons a large part of the Democratic machine turned on the Clintons and pushed Obama through--he was the only one who could beat her and they want to be rid of them--her and Bill both--and their scandal-ridden ways.  

    I guess if Obama is foolish enough to oust Biden and name Hillary, he'd be getting what he deserved....Bill hanging out at the White House, when he isn't hanging with a mistress or two!!!  Can't you just see the headlines?  

  • suzfive
    suzfive Member Posts: 456
    edited September 2008

    SherriM - Obama did not put Hillary on the ticket because she might take away some of his thunder. Everything with Obama is about himself. He chose Joe Biden who plagiarized twice and got away with it. This year the media would not have touched Hillary if she was on the Dems ticket. Heck, Obama has not been vetted! The media wants Obama to win so badly and that scares me - what is in it for them?

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited September 2008

    New type of politics Chicago style----This is still developing and who knows if the media will finally do their job?-- and of course Tommy Vietor - Mr Pinocchio for the Obama Campaign is working feverishly denying....   Something is rotten in the Utopia of Denmark...............

    http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194057.php

    http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/09/23/jawss-score-first-blood.php

    You heard it here first....................

    http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/23/tommy-can-you-hear-me/

    Could Obama have to throw Axelrod under the bus???

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