Trip to Tijuana Mexico change my outlook forever

It's unfortunate that some people posting here have made up their minds about the Mexican clinics without having any contact or visiting experience. That's called "ignorance" or "prejudice."

And the notion of "if it was so good, the US would have it" shows a complete lack of understanding of how medical standard of care and research is run in this country.

I would ask that those who have not been to the clinics or read the books on them refrain from the "bar room generalism" opinions. It is very easy to put down something you have no experience with.

A reminder: this particular group is about exploring alternative and integrative therapies. If you came here to trash alternatives and say how great the mainstream cancer therapies are doing, you are on the wrong board.

We appreciate critiques of non-standard treatments but please show the courtesy to avoid cliche prejudice.

Well, I don't recall saying that the "mainstream therapies" are great.  They are inadequate in the respect that many women are still losing this battle.  I'm on this thread looking for the same thing you ladies are looking for-alternative therapies that help fill in that gap.  With that being said, at least I know that I can look at the data on FDA-approved therapies to see what I'm getting in the way of efficacy and side effects.  I'm just offering up my opinion that some of the alternative choices only have anecdotal evidence (this person is alive, that person is in remission, etc.).  I'm looking at all the options with a healthy dose of skepticism.  Believe me, if one of the alternative therapy choices is a miracle cure, I can come up with 20K.  I hope between mainstream and alternative therapy that we can come up with something really fast!

A friend of mine was dx with lungs mets in 1995.  She had the one lung nodule removed and then she went to Germany for tx.  I do not know which clinic she went to but she received the hyperthermia tx.  Unfortunately, even after this tx, the nodule came back rather quickly.  Then, feeling as though she really had no options left, she did the heavy duty chemo where they first removed some of her bone marrow, and then transplanted it back to her in order for her immune system to reboot.

Twelve years after the chemo/transplant, she is alive and well and cancer-free.  She tried the alternative tx but it did not work and really was the miracle child who seems to be cured of Stage IV BC with the conventional tx of that time.  We all admit, however, that we don't know whether the hyperthermia tx helped the chemo tx work.  It's impossible to say. 

I go to a CAM doctor and follow his instructions about supplements and diet (most of the time anyway).  He also believes in mainstream medicine, hence the "complementary" aspect of what he does.  While I was NED for three years following my dx with lung mets, even he admitted that it was impossible to know whether it was his advice or my taking Femara that was doing the trick. 

Now, I am out of remission and many of the newest conventional tx's have failed me.  Just to show how narrow minded so many doctors are... when I found a tx that is FDA approved for liver cancer but available for tx of any cancer now in the liver (which mine is), my consulting onc who is a very big shot in the BC world is shrugging his shoulders and saying he does not recommend it.  It is a procedure of targeted radiation to the cancer only in the liver (called Selective Internal Radiation Therapy) and some of the best hospitals in the US offer it and are doing trials to see if it will help non-liver cancer patients with metasteses to the liver.  I have an apppointment with the interventional radiologist a week from Tuesday and I had to find out about this on my own.

I do not know what the answer is.  I just tell this story to show how proprietary doctors are about their own specialties and if it isn't "done" at their hospital, then it just isn't done!!!  And this is within the USA concerning tx that IS FDA APPROVED!  We are all unfortunately left with the responsibility of checking things out for ourselves and making the best informed choices we can. 

There is no point in berating someone for trying something unorthodox but... I would be careful about being a lay person and giving advice.  I would not want giving advice that hurts someone on my shoulders.

Sorry for the long post!

Robin

So if you want to look at it as a business...explain how some of these clinics been open for 40+ years?  They can't advertise in the US and some other countries.   How many businesses can last that long without advertise? It called word of mouth and results.

I notice all the no-sayers are early stage bc patients.  I hope none of you have a recurrence and get to see what mainstream medicine has to offer you.  I hope some doctor never has to tell you that your life will be one chemo after another with less than 10% on average chance of helping you, or only six to eight months before resistant, this is along with major toxic side effects. Scientists are only looking for long term treatment options and not a cure.  Where is mainstream  medicine numbers that show great things for girls with mets.  The only major advancement in bc is earlier detection that let's them CUT the cancer out. For most of us with mets are lucky if you get three to five years on chemo. Are those the wonderfully numbers you think that make conventional medicine better?

Yes! We should be able to chose how and where we want to be treated.  I have meet many Stage IV ladies who would go to Mexico but the cost, because are insurance will not pay for it. That brings up cost...for 24 day program that will hopefully start you on a road to recovery with a laid out home program.  Cost $24,000... a thousand dollars a day for treatment, food and board. (the price also covers a guess who will stay with you.) Just one of my chemo treatments cost that much. (So why want the ins company not give me the money and let me do what I want?) They have a once a year follow up program that is free! So where is all the cost ? This about one chemo treatment and possible a additional $6,000 a year if you don't make remission to keep you disease under control. I want the right to pick my treatment options!

Flalady

each and everyone of us is different and i respect that- conventional for some- alternative for others or a combination of the two - it is all up to you- my friend had pancreatic cancer and had gone through all the standard treatments with no change in his condition so he chose to go to mexico for treatment - when he first arrived he was so full of hope and they had so many choices for him to make that he felt he actually had power against his disease again- something he had not felt in years- he did basically everything they offered and returned home with a clear mind and a hopeful heart- he was dead in 2 weeks- sadly all he did was feel guilty for spending so much money and wished he had spent his last days surrounded by his loved ones- just one story that did not have a good outcome but i'm sure there are some that do- FYI- suzanne somers is a big supporter of iscador as well as bioidentical hormones and she has remained cancer free for many years- keep the faith ladies-

Lindamemm...It all comes back down to money.....Why would the pharmaceutical companies want a cure when they are making so much money on treatment?    If we were given a cure then the pharmaceutical companies would lose BILLIONS........OR   the cost of the cure would be so astronimical that NO insurance company would be able to cover it even at a fraction......SO we are in a HUGE catch 22........If a cure is found you can bet your bottom dollar that WE would be charged outrageous dividends for this cure....I myself hope there is a cure found during my life time.....I already lost a sister and my mom to bc  and I and another sister are fighting it...my other sister had stage 2b........I honestly wish this Mexico thing was for real...I have a lot of trouble believing it is real.....You who believe it is real more power to you.......I really hope it works for you.......But like I said if there really is a cure  no one will tell cause there's too much money at stake......Just my humble opinion.......

LindaMemm,

Thank you for your prayers.  Our God is my big physician and that where I get my hope.

How sad anyone would compare a pancreatic cancer patient to others...they are only given two years by any doctor estimate. They are never used to measure cancer treatment. If that was so all cancer tx would be a complete disaster.  Again... most people who go to Mexico/Germany are late stage IV...so many it is too late to really treat and not just because of their cancer, but the toxic side effects have taken a toll on their bodies.

Patients who chose CAM do not have support network's like this site. (As you can see from the tone of this thread.) They must work independently with their doctor's, also they usually do not have support from all their family or friends.  How sad that we don't support everyone's choice.

Flalady

Hi everyone.  The first time I was introduced to Mangostein juice, was right here at bco - and we all thought the person was a Troll or quack.  The only reason I started drinking it was because my SIL decided to buy me a bottle and said what could it hurt.  So I started drinking a shot of it a day.  Its very expensive and probably would not buy it myself cause I couldnt afford it.  My SIL has taken me under her wing and has been giving me my supply.  I drink a shot of it in the morning.  I dont know that it cures cancer, but it sure makes me feel better.  She actually got it for me because I was getting colds every 6 weeks and thought it would help build up my immune system - and I think it has.

CAM - Im a nurse and just got my newletter from the INA - Illinois nurses association.  Had never heard of it before and there was a great article in there about how combining this with conventional treatment has become very popular.  I figure if the INA is telling me about it, then it must be good.

Nicki 

Wow!  All this is overwhelming!  I am for alternative, and conventional as well.  It is mind-boggeling when I try to put this all together.  There are some of you ladies that know your stuff.  I'm a metster and just want to live as long as I can.  Why don't we put together our own plan:  Do coffee enemas ourselves....  drink distilled water.....take peroxide baths....would a jacuzzi count as a whole body hyperthermia?.... find a doc to administer IV Vit C.....  I could go on and on....  Just know my God will be my healer and I am waiting faithfully.  God Bless you all!

You said it all LaindaMemm!

I'm with you...I going to beat this monster and spend the next twenty or so years fight for alternative treatments choice. 

Flalady

Liz, Thanks for the link...I guess I will have to to go with the cheaper antioxidents too.....If I don't like the taste of it I would be throwing a lot of money away.......Hugs!

I am also doing conventional treatment but trying to incorporate natural and eastern treatments.  I guess my theory is that conventional treatment can only do so much and after that it is up to me to make what I put in my body work for me and not against me.  I wanted to add my 2 cents to this thread for one reason really.  I work in the finance industry and am currently in serious danger of losing my job.  I am a good person who does a good job with the right intentions but have been lumped into the whole "greedy banking industry".  I have to think the same think about traditional medicine and pharmaceutical companies.  I absolutely hate the argument that all these people are evil and greedy and they just want cancer to continue so they can have a job.  It just isn't logically possible that this is the case.  Of course there is money in cancer treatments.  How many businesses do you know that survive if they don't make a profit?  None. 

Let's go with the idea that there are other options out there besides traditional western medicines but do we really have to use the argument that all of the pharms and doctors are evil, money grubbing quacks?  Can't it just be possible that these are regular people, doing thier job, trying to make a difference with the right intentions but not all the answers??

Please ladies watch out for this treatment..I live in San Diego across the border from TJ and we see all the unfortunate results of the "alternative" treatments there...

Quackwatch Home Page

Some Thoughts about the Klinik St. George

As a practising cancer specialist, I see many patients whose cancers are incurable, and the aim of any therapy -- whether chemotherapy, radiotherapy, or purely symptomatic care -- is to lessen their symptoms and thereby improve their quality of life. Once the options for active treatments have been exhausted, it is easy to understand why so many patients choose to pursue unorthodox therapies. The practitioners of these treatments usually promise patients far more than I can, and they offer hope to desperate people. My patients often justify seeking such treatment with, "I have nothing to lose." Regrettably, I am now well informed on how much they have to lose.

My wife's sister Robyn was 42 years old when she was diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer. Unfortunately, her disease was aggressive and responded only transiently or not at all to the various chemotherapeutic regimens her medical oncologist tried. Having reached the point where further chemotherapy was likely to offer her only toxicity with no realistic chance of benefit, she was informed by another patient of the Klinik St. Georg, in Bad Aibling, Germany, headed by a Dr Friedrich Douwes. Robyn had two children aged 9 and 7, and she was desperate to try anything that claimed to offer her the chance of seeing them grow up. In fact, she was not just offered a chance, but an 80% probability of cure. She went to Germany with her husband. My advice was neither sought nor offered. My wife and I had decided to say, if asked, that we supported whatever Robyn decided to do. Any opposition on our part would have been futile anyway, because she was absolutely committed to this course.

The Klinik St. Georg offers patients a smorgasbord of anti-cancer treatments, ranging from conventional chemotherapy (although at significantly lower dose than most cancer specialists would consider optimal) to the decidedly unconventional: Galvanic therapy, high-dose intravenous Vitamin C, hyperthermia, herbal therapy, "immune stimulants," reflexology, and more. Accompanied by her husband, Robyn spent three weeks in Germany receiving a combination of chemotherapy and hyperthermia before returning home. The uncomfortable side effects of the chemotherapy were more severe than she had experienced with any of her previous treatments; and she lost her hair. During the three weeks after her return from the Klinik, she developed new symptoms and her x-ray films revealed a large mass (metastatic tumor) in her right lung. Even to a layperson, logic would suggest that her recent treatment had been ineffective. Robyn also suspected that this was the case, and faxed the x-ray report to the Klinik St Georg. But despite several attempts, she was not able to speak to a doctor at the Klinik about the implications of the x-ray film. She was told by one of the Klinik's secretarial staff that if she heard nothing further she should keep her next appointment at the Klinik, due in a matter of days. It came as no surprise to me that she was not contacted. But, because she was desperate, she went back to Germany.

Robyn's health had deteriorated significantly when she arrived back at Klinik St Georg. She was too unwell for cancer treatment of any kind and was bedbound for the first week after her arrival. Her husband was told by Dr. Douwes to "start praying for a miracle," which probably reflected his opinion of the likelihood of any benefit resulting from his treatment. Yet Robyn was given more chemotherapy, this time consisting of a drug to which her cancer had already been proven resistant by her Australian oncologist. At no stage did Douwes suggest that she should return home to her children. He attributed her weakened condition to an infection acquired before she had returned to Germany, and he blamed her oncologist at home for not detecting and treating this properly. This undermining of her conventional oncologist had been a feature of Dr. Douwes' strategy and had involved outright criticism and condescension ("This treatment is accepted everywhere else in the world but Australia has been slow to accept it.") Actually, the cause of Robyn's decline was a condition called Superior Vena Caval Obstruction, in which the tumor in the right side of her chest had grown until it compressed the large vein returning blood to her heart from her head, arms, and upper body. This resulted in massive swelling of these parts of the body, including her brain, resulting in intermittent loss of consciousness. This is not a rare situation in the practice of cancer medicine and is a medical emergency. It is usually treated urgently with radiotherapy and steroid medication. However, Robyn's SVC obstruction went undiagnosed and untreated.

When her death seemed imminent, Robyn's children, parents, two sisters and brother flew from Australia to be by her side. They found the upper half of her body was grossly swollen. Douwes attributed this to "kidney impairment" that had supposedly resolved, but he was unable to explain why the swelling had persisted once the kidney impairment had recovered. The family also found Robyn in pain due to metastases in her spine, but she was given little or no pain relief by the inept nursing staff who did not even see it as their job to ensure a basic level of hygiene for their patient. It was left to the family to administer sponge baths. During this time, any contact with Douwes was by appointment only. During such appointments, the family found him arrogant and detached, and overtly aggressive if questioned about Robyn's treatment.

Robyn died on November 12, 2001. Dr. Douwes did not speak to her family just before or at any time after her death. Robyn's father commented that the most sympathetic person he encountered in the Klinik was the undertaker called after his daughter had died.

So, what did Robyn have to lose?

• Time with her family and friends. Approximately 7 of the last 10 weeks of her life were spent in a foreign country away from those she loved.
• Money. The cost of Robyn's treatment was exorbitant, exceeding 70,000 Australian dollars, most of it paid in advance. This money could have been better spent on her children's upbringing, which, ironically, was her chief concern.
• Quality of life. Robyn was made to endure chemotherapy side effects when there was no significant chance that the treatment would help her; and she had to suffer from the symptoms of a well-known complication of cancer because the Klinik doctor did not make the diagnosis.
• Faith in her original oncologist. Not surprisingly, the undermining of her Australian oncologist's care caused Robyn and her husband a degree of anguish. Had she not died in Germany, the relationship with her original doctor might have been destroyed just when she needed it most.
• The dignity of proper terminal care. Adequate pain relief and proper nursing care are every patient's right.
• Life. Most of all, Robyn lost what she most sought: to live. It is very likely that appropriate treatment of the superior vena caval obstruction would have prolonged her life significantly. Robyn died from a complication of her cancer rather than the cancer itself. It is inconceivable that this diagnosis would have been missed by her original oncologist or any other competent physician. On the day of her death she was given drugs to lower her blood pressure on the erroneous premise that her rapid heart rate was due to heart failure, despite the fact that she was profoundly shocked. These medications almost certainly hastened her death.

Robyn made her own decision to travel to Klinik St Georg, as she had every right to do. The tragedy is that her decision was based on misinformation and impossibly optimistic claims of treatment outcome. It is most unfortunate that people claiming to possess the cure for cancer are permitted to prey on desperate individuals like Robyn, whose only wish was to be there for her children. I think she lost a lot.

______________________

Dr. McIntosh is a cancer specialist in Hobart, Australia. His main focus is on gynecological cancer and palliative care.

Thank you, worriedhubby6!

Lisa  <- who also lives in San Diego and sees the misguided desperation that TJ services. I wouldn't even get my TEETH cleaned there, much less cancer treatment