The Respectfully Republican Conversation

Even if Obama meant the statement to be about McCain, does that make it okay?  He's calling his opponent a pig.  Yes it's a common expression - I've heard it in business meetings on more than one occasion - but in the context in which it was used (i.e. against his opponents), it was  pretty insulting and very much out of line, no matter who Obama was referring to.  And in typical Obama fashion, when criticized for his insulting and thoughtless comment, he tried to turn it around: 

The McCain-Palin campaign called the comments "offensive and disgraceful" and demanded an apology.  The Obama camp said the remark was not a dig at Mrs Palin and accused the Republicans of a "pathetic attempt to play the gender card".   Ah, so it's the McCain-Palin camp that's in the wrong here.  Yes, of course. 

When you see Obama talking on the campaign trail, there is this really unappealing arrogance about him.  His mannerisms, the way he speaks, his mocking tone, the way he smirks...   He obviously thinks he can say anything and get away with it.  Hopefully he loses the election and finds out just how wrong he is.   

Roctobermom, McCain is a republican.   I don't know the percentage of times he voted with Bush.  I know he voted against Bush's tax cuts.  How many times has Obama voted with Pelosi (ONE of my least favorite people)?  How MANY time has Obama flip-flopped. He now says that he won't raise taxes (YET) because of the economy.  He said it would be bad for the economy.  DUH! 

I do not think McCain would lead our country into a war UNLESS it was absolutely necessary.  He's fought in a war and, worse, has been a POW which we all know.  No, we're not going to get universal health care from McCain.  I feel he will unite the two parties (if he can keep Pelosi and Reid out of it) on energy independence.  I TRULY believe he'll cut out the pork.  Way too much money wasted.

Will we differ on some things with him?  Absolutely.  Would you rather have Obama as our president?  What "change" are you looking for?  I'l take my chances with McCain.

Shirley

You know what bugs me? The Obama speeches are often peppered with God references and his disciples (community organizer he is...just like JESUS!) don't bat an eye...then they dig up Palin's speech given at her church to young people and they label her a dangerous religious zealot! Yeah, I'm a Christian, but I fully support the idea of tolerance and everyone's right to decide for themselves.

And, the nit-picking about Palin's accent and "g-dropping"...good grief! I heard a 10 second Obama soundbite yesterday and he said "GONNA" at least 5 times! Of course, he was wearing his "ordinary guy" disguise at the time.

This presidential election I am less inclined to vote FOR someone than I am inclined to vote AGAINST Obama. It's sort of scary how many have drunk the kool-aid.

This thread is lively as ever.  I'm curious to know which of the books listed below that you don't want your children and grandchildren to read?  Which have you read?

Steinbeck is one of my favorites....still reading him.  I still have Mark Twain on my book shelf to read to children.

Does anyone remember a movie entitled "Fahrenheit 451"?

This information is taken from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library
Board. When the librarian refused Palin tried to get her fired as she did
with the Safety Director of the State who refused to fire a trooper who was
getting a vicious divorce from her sister

This is the list of books Palin tried to have banned. As many of you will
notice it is a hit parade for book burners.

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Blubber by Judy Blume
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Canterbury Tales by Chaucer
Carrie by Stephen King
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Christine by Stephen King
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Cujo by Stephen King
Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite
Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Decameron by Boccaccio
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by J ohn Cleland
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Forever by Judy Blume
Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
Have to Go by Robert Munsch
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Impressions edited by Jack Booth
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
Lysistrata by Aristophane s
More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
My House by Nikki Giovanni
My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara
Night Chills by Dean Koontz
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Ordinary People by Judith Guest
Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective
Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
Separate Peace by John Knowles
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
The Bastard by John Jakes
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
The Living Bible by William C. Bower
The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
The Pigman by Paul Zindel
The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
The Shining by Stephen King
The Witches by Roald Dahl
The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster
Editorial Staff
Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween
Symbols by Edna Barth

This list incorporates more than sound bites and rhetoric.  It's too important to ignore.

Can anyone tell me Why Mrs. Palin wanted these banned?

Marilyn,

You went to a lot of trouble with that list.  But I heard yesterday the story wasn't true.  There's been a lot of bogus stories out there from the far left nut jobs and the librarian story was just one of them. 

I'm not a fan of Palin's.  I do think she has a handle on the energy situation though.

I copied this from a fact-checker website.

Not a Book Burner

One false rumor accuses then-Mayor Palin of threatening to fire Wasilla's
librarian for refusing to ban books from the town library. Some versions of
the rumor come complete with a list of the books that Palin allegedly
attempted to ban. The story is false on several fronts: Palin never asked
that books be banned; the librarian continued to serve in that position; no
books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin
supposedly wanted to censor weren't even in print at the time, proving that
the list is a fabrication.

It's true that Palin did raise the issue with Mary Ellen Emmons, Wasilla's
librarian, on at least two occasions. Emmons flatly stated her opposition
both times. But, as the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman (Wasilla's local paper)
reported at the time, Palin asked general questions about what Emmons would
say if Palin requested that a book be banned. According to Emmons, Palin
"was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the
library." Emmons reported that Palin pressed the issue, asking whether
Emmons' position would change if residents were picketing the library.
Wasilla resident Anne Kilkenny, who was at the meeting, corroborates Emmons'
story, telling the Chicago Tribune that "Sarah said to Mary Ellen, 'What
would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the
collection?' "

Palin characterized the exchange differently, initially volunteering the
episode as an example of discussions with city employees about following her
administration's agenda. Palin described her questions to Emmons as
"rhetorical," noting that her questions "were asked in the context of
professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city."
Actually, true rhetorical questions have implied answers (e.g., "Who do you
think you are?"), so Palin probably meant to describe her questions as
hypothetical or theoretical. We can't read minds, so it is impossible for us
to know whether or not Palin may actually have wanted to ban books from the
library or whether she simply wanted to know how her new employees would
respond to an instruction from their boss. It is worth noting that, in an
update, the Frontiersman points out that no book was ever banned from the
library's shelves.

Moreover, although Palin fired Emmons as part of a "loyalty" purge, she
rehired Emmons the next day, and Emmons remained at her job for
two-and-a-half more years. Actually, Palin initially requested Emmons'
resignation in October 1996, four days before the public discussion of
censorship. That was at the same time she requested that all four of Wasilla's
department heads resign. Palin described the requests as a loyalty test and
allowed all four department heads to retain their positions. But on Jan. 30,
1997, three months after the censorship discussion, Palin informed Emmons
and Wasilla's police chief, Irv Stambaugh, that they would be fired.
According to the Chicago Tribune, Palin did not list censorship as a reason
for Emmons' firing. Palin rehired Emmons the following day. Emmons continued
to serve as librarian until August 1999, when the Chicago Tribune reports
that she resigned.

So what about that list of books targeted for banning, which according to
one widely e-mailed version was taken "from the official minutes of the
Wasilla Library Board"? If it was, the library board should take up fortune
telling. The list includes the first four Harry Potter books, none of which
had been published at the time of the Palin-Emmons conversations. The first
wasn't published until 1998. In fact, the list is a simple cut-and-paste
job, snatched (complete with typos and the occasional incorrect title) from
the Florida Institute of Technology library Web page, which presents the
list as "Books banned at one time or another in the United States."

Obama's dealings with Rezko buy a parcel of questions

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/121104,CST-NWS-brown02.article

Palin on books:  Whether she asked for specific books to be banned or was just speaking rhetorically, that she would even bring up the subject is disturbing. The long history of book burning (or banning) is such an ugly one (the Catholic Church, with respect to books on science and learning, the Nazi's, and so many others). I had read that the story was false and just assumed it was fully false, so I'm sorry to learn there was even a bit of truth in it.

Obama on lipstick:  Whether Obama meant to describe Palin, I find it hard to believe she wasn't in his mind when he made that remark.  He's so very very careful when he speaks, so it was either intentional (and has backfired) or it's something that's been eating at him and it slipped out.  The irony for me is that this is exactly how I view both Obama and Palin:  dressed up to look like presidents and neither with any credentials to assume that role.  At least she is in a secondary position.

Linda, your question is sincere so I will answer, as honestly as I can.  The most difficult part of declaring oneself an atheist is acknowledging the doubts that one has had for years--mine started at age ten. Very few people are actually raised as aethists or secularists (I believe Barack Obama is an exception and he went in the opposite direction to mine), so when one finally examines one's doubts and comes to the conclusion there is no God, one also acknowledges one's mortality. Most--not all--religious people believe they will continue to exist in another form after they die.  I don't have that comfort, so basically becoming an atheist is the letting go of ego.  So well before BC I knew I would die and cease to exist.  It's still difficult, however, when reality strikes as it did with BC. Believing in God gives one the comfort of knowing that even after death one continues to be.  In this sense to be an atheist requires courage--not suggesting that believers don't have courage, just a different kind--and there are certainly times I wish I could believe and take comfort from it, but I can't.  My comfort is that the world will continue and all the things I love in it will also continue (assuming we resolve global warming--needed to get in one of my political views) and that is a comfort. 

In his book, Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals (1971), Alinsky recommended "power tactics" to solve the kinds of problems that organizers and stewards often encounter. "Tactics are those consciously deliberate acts by which human beings live with each other and deal with the world around them," wrote Alinsky.

	1 )	Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.
	2 )	Never go outside the experience of your people. It may result in confusion, fear and retreat.
	3 )	Wherever possible go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear and retreat.
	4 )	Make the enemy live up to his/her own book of rules.
	5 )	Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.
	6 )	A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.
	7 )	A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.
	8 )	Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.
	9 )	The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.
	10 )	The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.
	11 )	If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside.
	12 )	The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.
	13 )	Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it and polarize it.

Palin has made positive change for her state of Alaska, starting out as a Mayor, and the majority of her residents back her 100% (but you cannot please everyone). 

Good morning girls...............I again am facing a busy day with Hurricane Ike headed our way but of course I have a few things to say so here I am...............CNN interviewed the blogger that started the majority of the rumors such as the book banning................his name is Bob and he said it took him about 30 minutes to make a bunch of stuff up..................anyway with that said the thing that bother me the most about Obama's speech yesterday (by the way when he gets off script is when he gets in trouble)...........when he made the pig comment I thought man is he in trouble but what really pissed me off was when he said when an old fish is wrapped up in newspaper it's still just an old fish...........not sure if he just got lucky or unlucky with the pig comment but I think that the fish comment was written for him to say and I found that to be very offensive.............and for the life of me I don't know why his speech writers are writing stuff like this.....he cannot carry off being a good ole boy.............his problem and the reason he is not connecting with the average person is because he dosn't know how........that's not who he is..............and never will be..............it always sounds like he is talking "down" to crowds........the hesitation in his speaking manner sounds like he is trying to think in his mind "how can I explain this to these stupid people?"...............oh and one more point...........now that the "World" has endorse Obama sure does relieve my mind that if Obama is elected that the rest of the world is going to be happy...........and LIKE US.............Shokk

See badboob you know what I am talking about...........has Paulette checked in?...........a bit worried about her..........I sure hope she has moved inland........Paulette if you are reading please post............Shokk

Suzy5 wrote this on the Obama thread:  If you are going to delve into her religion then I think it is only fair that we do the same for Senator Obama. I am much more concerned about his relationship with Rev Wright who he considered like a member of the family. Only denounced him when he became a political liability. From what I have read, she went to church but was not all that active in it - certainly did not consider the pastor as her spiritual adviser or a member of her family.

Now Queen Amy is telling her to get off their thread since she NEVER has posted anything positive about Obama.   Man that woman should shave her head and don some monk clothing and tatoo and O on her forehead ....  She sure doesn't want any discussion, just blind berating of Republicans and praise for Slo-bama.