Positive Obama thread

NoH8 · September 2008

McCain has said that he'll ask some members of his cabinet to work for no salary, which is fine if you have a wife who's a heiress. Does anyone know if McCain has been receiving a salary for his time in the senate? The one liners the speech writers have been writing for McCain and Palin aren't necessarily reflective of their records. Technically, Palin sold the state plane on ebay. She tried to, which was one of her running points for governor, but the plane never sold. One of Palin's political cronies ended up buying the plane, for a loss. She said she sold the plane for profit, yet it was for a loss... but it was a great one liner.

shokk · September 2008

Amy with all due respect............let me say this.............it is you calling a small town podunk is what makes us on the right think the left are elitist.............the majority of people do not live in large cities.............this country is made up of these small podunk towns and a tornado can completely wipe out an entire community...........and you better be scared of Palin............something else you guys should understand......she broke into government in a state that literally was run by the "Good Ole Boys"................she broke the glass ceiling in Alaska............I guarantee you that was not easy.........and let's face the left hates her for one reason and one reason only..........it all boils down to what you call her extreme social policies and it's her pro life position........I am not sure when the women's movement became about one main issue............something that is carried around as the holy grail of being political correct.........that what ever you believe is not as important as the one thing you must believe or you are not worthy of even being a woman and that is pro choice............jmo.............Shokk

NoH8 · September 2008

With all due respect, shokk-- what glass ceiling in Alaska? The state is only 50 years old. How many governors has the state had and how many women have tried and been defeated because of their gender? The term glass ceiling has been used throughout this campaign as a catchall for anything female related. Glass ceilings are real, I just don't think just because Sarah Palin is the first female gov of Alaska that she's broken any glass ceilings.

The women's movement has always been about giving women the same rights as men, including the right to their medical procedures and privacy. The women's movement was instrumental in the passage of Roe v Wade. If men were the ones who got pregnant, I believe abortion rights wouldn't be an issue.

You're right in that a lot of the reasons I dislike her are her extreme social policies, but there's a lot more. I don't like her lack of experience and her seemingly inability to understand the difference between governing a sparsely populated town and state vs. being president of the United States. There are her lies such as the ebay one. Sure that lie doesn't affect people's lives or livelihoods, but it's the same reason I was so tough on Bill Clinton's lies. I believe the American people deserve honest leaders, people they can trust to tell the truth, not just what technically isn't a lie.

I grew up in a lovely podunk town. I love small towns,even more than cities. I'd rather live in a small town that a big city. I've heard people from small towns call them podunk towns. I think the term elitist is also a misnomer. Don't the republicans think they're better than the democrats? Don't they think they have"better" values than democrats? When the democrats think they're got better ideas that's no more elitist than when the republicans do.

shokk · September 2008

Oh now come on Amy its all about being whether you are pro choice or pro life...............why isn't the left celebrating that fact for the first time ever the Republicans have but a woman on their ticket?...........Is it because we are doing it for the reasons that she secures the religious right?.......or is it that she is conservative and not liberal........that she is not the "right" kind of woman...........the only way you can break that glass ceiling is if you are a liberal woman..........why is she question about whether she can be a VP and a mother?.......isn't that what the left has been fighting for since the 60's?.............That she can be successful and be a good mother............or is it simply that she is pro life............that is what this is all about.............and Amy your degrees are in the Sciences, right?.........when does life begin?............and I am not talking about whether life can be sub stain or not............I am talking when does life begin?........as far as I can tell the left refuses to answer that one and simple question...........and as for as Alaska......statistically the odds were against her..........there are 7 men for every one one woman in Alaska and regardless of how "old" a state is it is remarkable that she became governor...............Shokk

suzfive · September 2008

In the Notable and Quotable from the Wall Street Journal yesterday:

From a New York Times editorial on July 3, 1984, on Geraldine Ferraro's nomination for vice president:

"Where is it written that only senators are qualified to become President?... Or where is it written that mere representatives aren't qualified, like Geraldine Ferraro of Queens?,,, Where is it written that governors and mayors, like Dianne Feinstein of San Francisco, are too local, too provincial?... Presidential candidates have always chosen their running mates for reasons of practical demography, not idealized democracy... What a splendid system, we say to ourselves, that takes little-known men, tests them in high office and permits them to grow into statesmen....Why shouldn't little-known women have the same opportunity to grow?"

This was in 1984 and the New York Times of all newspapers. I have three daughters and since the day they were born I have told them that they could do anything a man could do. Men can have families and have jobs, why can't a woman? Are we now saying that men can't stay at home and take care of their children? Or its a crime to put your children in daycare. Are mothers who CHOOSE to have jobs now bad mothers? My 19 year old dd is now questioning why she is getting a college degree if you can't hold a job and be a mother too (she plans to be a doctor and work in an underserved area AND she would like to someday get married and have a family). Looks like this country is going backwards instead of forward in regards to women's rights. I guess the Democrats feel you should only be able to choose to have an abortion but forget it if you want to choose work and family. I know a couple of women who have children with Down syndrome who work and their children are thriving.

I really think we need to focus more on the men at the top of the ticket - who is going to keep their promises?, who will bring change to Washington and not on whether Gov. Palin can take care of her children and be Vice President. No one is questioning whether Senator Obama can be a good father and be President of the United States.

Anonymous · September 2008

Well, I believe that a woman should have the choice of abortion in her first trimester. Being someone who was pregnant when we didnt have choice - many women ended up dying from doing underground abortions. Would I have an abortion? No. But I wouldnt question someone who made that difficult decision. I think after the first 3 months abortions should be off limits. JMO - doesnt say Im right or wrong. Im not a way left liberal. I have always been Independent - and right now Im not liking anyone.

Another thing Im noticing is all the talk about what Palin and Hillary were wearing, are wearing, cooridnation of outfits etc. Yet I've not seen any talk about which men are wearing the nicer suits. Do their ties match, what colors they have chosen, is ones shirt hanging out during a press conference, etc.

I do take pride that a woman is running for VP in the history of this great country. My question remains her ability to run this country if something happens to the president.

Palin and Hillary are still be scrutinized more than any male running for any public office. At least thats my take on it and I think its sad.

NoH8 · September 2008

shokk- if McCain had chosen a qualified woman, I would be glad that he chose a woman-- someone like Kay Bailey Hutchinson or Olympia Snow. Then I wouldn't think of her as him chosing a vagina. The idea of Palin running the country is frightening and I see it as an insult to the qualified women he could have chosen. To me that's not women moving forward, but using the fact she has a vagina rather than a penis as the reason to have her on the ticket, as if to say women will vote for her because she's a woman.

As to why she's questioned whether she can be a VP and a mother, she made being a mother part of her autobiography when she introduced herself. Now that her husband is taking a leave of absence to stay home with the kids, it's much less of an issue. Special needs kids are a lot of work and they have so many needs more than children without disabilities. VPs work under the president's agenda and schedule, not their own. The country has to come above family for the president and I have yet to hear her say that she's willing to do that. I'm glad for her children's sakes that her husband will become the primary caregiver. That works just as well as the mother being the primary caregiver in my opinion. Sarah needs to make it clear that the country's needs will come first and foremost because for the first or 2nd in command, that's the way it's gotta be. If she tries to talk about being a mother as the most important thing in the world, that's fine, but running the country is a more than full time job and she will have to make sacrifices. If Obama had 5 kids, one who was pregnant and he promised to support and a newborn with special needs, I would question how he could be a full time father and fill time president.

chemosb.- I wonder whether the McCain camp will give Palin an extreme makeover? Remember Hillary before and after Bill was elected? No more headbands for Hillary. The fact is that women have many more choices --- dresses, skirts, pants suits, etc. They have more variety in color and fabric. For men it's basically tie or no tie, jacket or no jacket. There was a lot of talk about hair during the VP stakes, bill Richardson said he was glad he wasn't chosen because he didn't want to shave his beard, one of the governors in the running went from a mullet to a more traditional hair cut and was teased by reporters. We must be watching different channels because I've heard a lot of talk about Obama needing to take off his suit and put on a pair of khakis and polo shirt.

I guess I don't see her becoming mayor or governor as being that remarkable, because no one has shown me that in Alaska women have been prevented from being governor because of their gender, although I'm always glad to have more women in office. Why should it be such a big deal that in a state where men outnumber women 7-1 a woman is elected? I think it just goes to show there wasn't a glass ceiling to begin with. Women entered the work force en masse a lot later than men did due to a lot of reasons, so they aren't going to have the history of being in public office as do many of their male counterparts so as a group it will take a few generations to get number equality. Sarah Palin said Hillary was whining when she complained about sexism so I think it's ironic that she's now benefitting from, what some people see as sexism.

I can see why you have your point of view, Shokk, I just disagree. She doesn't even support equal pay for equal work, I just don't see her as a friend to women's rights and women's issues. She is a friend to conservative women's issues, not all women.

Anonymous · September 2008

What I heard Palin say when she got rid of the airplane was, "I put it on Ebay." I didn't hear her say she "sold" it on Ebay. That's not considered a lie.

I have one more thing to say. My dd works and has two children. It's hard to both. However, her dh knows he had to step up and take care of them they're sick. Meaning, when one of the parents needs to say home they take turns. In Palin's case I'm sure her dh will be a full time father. Don't you believe that this had to be a discussion IF McCain chose her. She knew she was on his list. I'm sure they played the "what if" game. My dd and sil had those discussions about who would care for them when they weren't in school due to illness, etc.

I told myself I wouldn't post on this thread again. I just wanted to throw out something you guys may not have thought of.

Also, one more thought. Obama is not qualified to be prez..not enough experience. However, he has had some "on the job" training while campaigning. So, why all the gripe about the VP. She won't be running the country. I'm getting a little tired of hearing how old McCain is and his bout with cancer twice. I suppose we could go back to the old discriminatory practice and say he's too old or have had health problems, thererfore he cannot run for prez. And that he's too pale..looks to sickly. The man is not allowed to have one bit of sun on his body. I'm sure his exposed flesh has sunscreen slapped all over him. His 96 yo mom is fair skinned, but she looks great and has a good (probably better than mine) mind

Shirley

Anonymous · September 2008

Amy: I think they should be wearing black, navy, grey, or brown business suits. Its an executive position and JMO in my eyes that would look professional.

Shirley: It may have been me who mentioned the skin cance earlier - and I apologize for that as I dont think that is a health issue to be concerned with. Its his age I worry about 72 seems awfully old - especialy when many employees are forced to resign at 65. Pilots, policemen, firemen are some examples. And most of them could probably still be on the job - but retirement is mandatory.. I know - thats age discrimination, but it still is a concern for me. Yet I know that I plan on working past 65.

I believe that many of us right here on these boards raised children on your own. Worked full time, raising your kids, and going through treatment. So I agree, I wish they would stop talking about the "motherhood" issues. For me it has no bearing.

I do believe this is going to be an interesting election. History making already. Thank goodness Im going back to work tomorrow. Seeing all these news shows, fox, CNN, MSNBC - they are all making me crazy and confused.

Nicki

suzfive · September 2008

Nicki - McCain may be 72 but he is a very young 72. Did you see his mother who is 96? She could run circles around people a lot younger than she is and her mind is still razor sharp.

Anonymous · September 2008

Suz: Hahahaha I did see his mother and there is no way she looks 96! I should look so good at 58.

Nicki

Anonymous · September 2008

LOL, Suz, and Nicki. A friend asked me the other day if that was his mom. She said she looked better than her LOL. Good genes there.

Shirley

mke · September 2008

I just checked, his father's dates are 1911 to 1981 so that 50% of his genes aren't so great. But I admit if you go for the average, it's time enough. It's interesting to watch this sort of from the outside. I find the furor about Palin very entertaining although I'm apalled by most of her stances. There have been some pretty bad VPs that the US survived, anybody remember Spiro Agnew?

NoH8 · September 2008

Somewhere a cave is missing a few trolls.

Obama has been around here a lot, because we're a swing state even though he's polling up by over 50%. He's visiting some of the smaller areas where he didn't get a chance to go in the primaries, which can only help.

MKE, I remember both Quale and Agnew-- thankfully neither had to become president and that Agnew resigned before Nixon quit. The demcrats have done much better with their VP choices. As much as I dislike Bush, Cheney would have probably even been worse for the country than Bush.

Did anyone see Bob Woodward's interview on 60 minutes last night? His book comes out tomorrow and although this one is supposed to be more sympathetic to Bush, even though the facts and frightening. I wonder how many deep throats will come out after the new administration steps in 1/20/09.

Shokk, even though we disagree about most everything, I would be glad to have you in my home. I wouldn't let Palin or McCain in though.

LAphoenix · September 2008

I missed the Woodward interview. Bush certainly seems like old news now, though, doesn't he? I have this image of him on that big screen at the convention, hovering over the proceedings like the ghost of administrations past.

Today on the campaign trail . . . McPalin accuse Obama of excessive earmarks! This from a governor who has requested more earmarks per capita than any state in the union. This from a mayor who sent a lobbyist to D.C. to ask for $27 million for a town of 9,000, but who still managed to leave her town in huge debt. This from a candidate who doesn't know how Fannie and Freddie work (private, not funded by taxpayers as she said today). And McCain appears to be confused about how Social Security works. They're really following the accuse-your-opponent-of-your-own-weaknesses playbook.

Looking forward to Rachel Maddow's debut tonight.

NoH8 · September 2008

What did you think of Rachel's show? I thought it got off to a bit of a slow start, even though I enjoyed the show and loved Rachel. I watched Keith's interview with Obama right before that and didn't really need to see it redone on her show. I thought the pastor on Rachel's show had some interesting points, although I am completely uncomfortable with preachers telling their parishoners who they should vote for. I think Palin's religion should be off the table, unlike the republicans have done with Obama. I do think that if Palin's religion interferes with her political decisions-- like Huckabee wanted to make the constitution reflect what he considers to be god's laws, then that aspect of the religious/political life are in the public's interest.

LAphoenix · September 2008

Yeah, I hope Rachel doesn't rely too much on the MSNBC regulars. We get enough Keith and Uncle Pat. I liked the interview with the pastor. He brought a reasonable perspective to the debate. As the pastor said, her religious beliefs are relevant as far as reflecting her worldview and how she might govern, whether she believes in the separation of church and state. If Obama has to prove he's a Christian, then Palin has to prove she's not a religious extremist.

I think there's a growing sentiment that Obama needs to get down and dirty now, hire those 527s, and blast away. Keep the focus on McCain. Did you like the comment by McCain's campaign guy that the media can't interview Palin until they're properly "deferential." What is she, the queen?

Heard another reason to hate Palin . . . she hates cats!

NoH8 · September 2008

The comment about being "deferential" to Palin was a joke? Is that because she's a woman that the McCain camp thinks she should be treated as if she walks on water?

I don't agree that Palin should have to prove she's not an extremist, only that her extreme views won't get in the way of her governing. She believes that the Iraq war came from (her version of a) god-- how's that going to be for negotiating with Arabs or people of other faiths. She believes Jews are going to hell because they haven't been saved by her idea of christ-- what's that going to do to US/Israel relations and peace in the middle east?

I think if that religion shouldn't play a part in politics and just because the republicans have been using awful tactics to try to get people to believe Obama is an extremist doesn't mean that it's ok. I think once the dems do it then it's open season for the 2012 campaigns.

OMG but if she hates cats, well then that's worse than anything else except perhaps praying to turn gays straight.

LAphoenix · September 2008

"Deferential" was no joke. It's part of their ploy to make Palin out to be a victim of the press, even before they've asked her anything. Apparently she can shoot a moose, but she can't handle the those mean reporters.

Disagree with you totally on the extremist question. I think Bush has shown us that religious views do impact your decision-making and how you govern. He filled his administration with like-minded Christians and made religion part of his litmus test. I'm not sure that Palin is as extreme as her church is, but she needs to assure us that she isn't. As you point out, this is a church that advocates praying away homosexuality. Does she believe that? Wouldn't that impact how she handles gay issues? If her views on homosexuality, abortion, sex eduction, etc. come from her religion (and social views often do), her religion is not off the table IMO. It's completely relevant.

suzfive · September 2008

If you are going to delve into her religion then I think it is only fair that we do the same for Senator Obama. I am much more concerned about his relationship with Rev Wright who he considered like a member of the family. Only denounced him when he became a political liability. From what I have read, she went to church but was not all that active in it - certainly did not consider the pastor as her spiritual adviser or a member of her family.

LAphoenix · September 2008

I want to add that while I don't think religion itself should be called into question (i.e., Mormonism or Catholism, whateverl), how candidates might apply their religious beliefs to their public service is an important question to ask. In the end, you're looking at their stands on the issues, including whether they endorse the notion of separation of church and state and the role of religion in public service. Some of these fundamentalist churches advocate breaking down the separation and believe that the U.S. government should be controlled by fundamentalists (and I think Palin's church falls into this category). That's part of their stated mission.

ebann · September 2008

I am for Obama! I believe he is the right person for the job. He is a compromiser. He has a plan. Bush has done a poor job and we are suffering from it. Things are not going to change if McCain gets into office. And why does everyone make a big deal out of the abortion issue. Everyone acts like it is going to change or something. I mean this was decided in 1973! Has it changed? No!

That is just my thought on that one.

Blessings,Elizabeth

LAphoenix · September 2008

Welcome to the Obama thread, Elizabeth! You're right, we need some fresh, intelligent ideas and perspectives, youthful energy, and someone who's tempermentally right for compromise and unity. No more ideologues and men who would be king.

NoH8 · September 2008

Eliz, I think it has changed in that Bush put into law and it was upheld by the supremes that amount of weeks when a pregnancy had to be terminated by. It's the erosion of Roe v. Wade. Bush replaced two justices, the middle of the road/liberal O'Conner and Renquist who was at least fair, with two strongly conservative and right wingers, shifting the balance of power. I do think that since the next president will name at least 2 members to the courts, this is a very serious matter. McCain/Palin want to outlaw abortion, and they both have said that they do, an important step in doing so is changing the supreme court before getting a test case in the lower courts.

Suzfive-since you're obvioiusly not an obama supporter and have never contributed one even remotely positive thing to the discussion, I wonder why you continue to post on this thread, Don't you have enough negative Obama threads to post on?

LA, I know the deference was not said as a joke-- but it is a joke to me that the Mccain camp would even go there. Now that I understand what you're saying about religion, I agree where you're coming from. This is also important in terms of Education plans-- since she believes in teaching creationism in school.

CherrylH · September 2008

She doesn't like cats!!! She is the spawn of Satan. OMG, she's Karl Rove's sister Laughing

Felines (& lovers) unite to defeat this abomination!!!!!!

Cherryl

mke · September 2008

Well Amy has brought up the most important issue. Presidents come and go, VPs come into power now and again, but the Supreme Court justices we have for their lifetimes and there is piss all that can be done about it. If McCain is elected, and even worse if Palin becomes president my main fear is their court appointees. They aren't in the limelight, but they have a profound effect on daily life.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it the Supreme Court (with a couple of appointees by Bush senior) which really put Bush the younger in the White House although he lost the popular vote and wasn't the state in question the one that the other Bush the younger was governor of?

NoH8 · September 2008

MKE- You are correct about the Supremes disallowing the recount in FLA when there were numerous alleged irregularities in several counties. The vote was strictly on party lines. I know that Ruth Bader Ginsberg (sp?) has been wanting to retire for a while, the only female and most liberal. I can't remember who the other one is.

badboob67 · September 2008

"That's part of their stated mission"

Actually, there is nothing about church/state in Wasilla Bible Church's Statement of Faith:

Statement of Faith

1. We believe in the Bible as the only inspired inerrant Word of God authoritative for faith and practice.

2 Tim 3:16,17; Heb 6:12; 2 Pet 1:19,20

2. We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; Who is the creator and sustainer of all things and worthy of our worship and praise.

Mt 28:19; Gen 1:1,2; Jn 1:1-3; Col 1:15-17; Heb 1:1-3

3. We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death for our sins by His shed blood on the cross, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal visible return in power and glory.

Jn 1:1-18; Lk 1:26-35; Rom 3:24,25; 1 Pet 2:24; Jn 11:1-45; 14:1-3; Acts 1:11; Heb 6:14,15; 7:26; 9:11-14; Rev 19:11-16

4. We believe that based upon Christ's death for the salvation of lost and sinful people, regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential. We believe that all people are lost and without God in their natural state; but by the grace of God those who exercise genuine faith in the Lord Jesus Christ are saved - justified, baptized into his death and born again, from above, by the Holy Spirit.

Jn 1:12,13; 3:1-21; Rom 3:23,24; Eph 2:8,9; 1 Pet 1:23

5. We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit. By His indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a godly life, and is spiritually gifted for ministry to others.

Acts 2:1-4; 17-21 (cf.Joel 2:28-30); 1 Cor 6:19,20;12:7

6. We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; they that are saved unto the resurrection of life to be forever with God, and they that remain lost unto the resurrection of judgment and damnation.

Mt 25:31-46; 1 Thess 4:13-18; 2 Thess 1:4-10; Rev 20:11-15; Jn 3:17-19

7. We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ, having been baptized into one body by the Holy Spirit. We believe in the responsibility of all believers to love and minister to one another.

1 Cor 12:13; Jn 13:1-17; 17:20-26; Eph 1:13-18; 1 Jn 4:7-11,20-21

8. We believe in our responsibility to be disciples of Christ, to love all people and to fulfill the Commission of Christ to go and make disciples of all nations by bearing witness of Christ through life and word in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Lk 9:23-26; Mt 22:36-40; 28:18-20; Acts 1:8; Rom 1:16

Nor in their "Core Commitments"

Core Commitments

The Centrality of Christ

By God's grace everything in the life of this church will revolve around the reality of Jesus Christ - who He is, what He has done, what He is doing, and what He will do. In the words of the early Church "He is Lord" and will be recognized as such in this church with an absolute allegiance that lifts Him above all others in our hearts, in our homes, and in our congregation. It is His commands that we will obey, His warnings that we will heed, and His promises that we will hold. In every endeavor we will rely upon His power, cherish His presence, and honor His name. We will, in sum, love Him. (John 14:6)

The Authority of Scripture

In order to experience and enjoy the centrality of Christ in our congregational life, we will submit to the authority of the Scriptures. They will be the foundational source of information and direction guiding our exploration of Christ's reality. The Bible will be used to determine our doctrine, to shape our practice, and even, when needed to settle our differences with the conviction that it is the very Word of God. In all the confusion of varied opinions and above all the claims of religious authority we will hold to the scriptures as the Truth for both faith and practice. In them God has spoken and to them we will listen. (2 Timothy 3:16, 17)

The Priority of Prayer

We will devote ourselves to prayer. In everything we will turn our hearts God-ward and make our requests known with a bold confidence in our Lord's promise that "everyone who asks receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened." We will work with painstaking diligence and unrelenting perseverance at the full pursuit of that promise for God's good in our lives and in the lives of those around us. Because there is so much that we cannot do and so much that He will do we will meet every desperate need, every heavy burden, every anxious worry and every deep desire with prayer. In all things we take it that our first task for God is to ask God. (Colossians 4:2)

Authenticity in our Spiritual Life

We are not here to pretend. We desire a real and genuine relationship with God and we will settle for nothing less. We recognize that means that we must be real and genuine in all our life toward God. As Jesus put it, "true worshipers will worship in spirit and truth, for such people the Father seeks to be his worshipers." We are committed to being such people and will heed our Lord's call to guard ourselves against all forms of hypocrisy. For us it is a simple matter: we want to live the full reality Jesus made known and there is only one way to really do that - and that is to live it from the heart. At a time when it is extremely hard to live authenticity and yet very easy to look authentic, we choose the hard course. We will live the God-ward life without pretense or we will not live it at all. (John 4:24)

Community in our Congregational Life

We will serve Christ together. We will practice the "one anothers" of Christian Fellowship. We will pray for one another, we will encourage one another, we will serve one another, even, if need be, we will admonish one another, and above all we will love one another. We believe in the reality and mystery of the Church as Christ's body. We all are actually one with each of us individually and differently gifted for the good of all. We recognize that by God's purpose and design the only way for us to grow personally and congregationally is to grow together. The promise in that reality is that as each does their part we will all become more like Christ. Toward that end we will each do our part for the good of all. (John 13:34, 35)

LAphoenix · September 2008

Palin's belonged or associated herself with so many different churches and political movements in her life it's hard to figure out which ones represent her true beliefs. The Assemblies of God church, her church of many years and at which she spoke recently and whose conference she attended recently, has a more radical doctrine than the Baptist church. She needs to make clear that she doesn't subscribe to their doctrine, even though she still attends their public functions and speaks to their members. Same with the Alaska Independence Party. She's on video addressing them in glowing terms just this year. Does she denounce the anti-American statements made by the leaders of that party? Does she denounce the visiting pastor at the Baptist who made anti-Semitic remarks in her presence recently? We want to hear her say she denounces these people and their views. Fair's fair.

So, all you Republicans who insist on injecting yourselves into this conversation to defend your candidates . . . please defend McCain's latest "approved" message regarding Obama's vote on a widely supported bill that would help educate children about sexual predators. Even ABC and Time are condemning that one. I think the Dems should come out with their own ad showing a shot of McCain and a shot of playing children with the words, "John McCain, friend of pedophiles." And how about the fact that McCain used the "can't put lipstick on a pig" comment about Hillary a few years back? He can dish it out, but he can't take it? I think Obama should stick with the pig metaphor and apply it to Palin as a lover of pork barrel. She may have asked for less pork than her predecessor, but Alaska still gets more taxpayer money than any state in America.

So, Obama supporters, any thoughts on how Obama should proceed? I'm leaning towards getting down and dirty with McCain and not apologizing for anything from here on out. I think it's the only way to win.

badboob67 · September 2008

I don't think I've ever stated that I'm a republican so you surely couldn't be referring to me, could you?

I would be interested in seeing any church's statement of faith that includes destroying the separation between church and state. Do you have that information?

I do find it a bit confusing that the public is expected to NOT hold the Jeremiah Wright thing against Obama, but we're supposed to be very worried about the "so many churches" Palin has been connected with.

I will not post on this thread again unless there is a specific question/comment directed to me. I did feel it necessary to respond to laphoenix's statement that it is some Christian church's mission to destroy the separation of church and state with FACTS.

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