I have decided NOT to do radiation...

Options

...and I'm looking for input.  My oncologist seems 'put out' with me...like she is taking it personally.  She didn't offer me the 'choice' to 'not' take the treatments...I just had no peace about taking them. 

 I had a lumpectomy 3 weeks ago, followed about 30 hours later by emergency re-sugery to stop pretty severe internal bleeding. 

I fight systemic lupus er. and have had a tough flair up with mouth sores and lots of swelling.  My body is NOT strong and I am not 'scared' of radiation...I just have no peace about doing it.  I think my diagnosis isn't one that would make my choice to dangerous.  Any input??  Thank you.

Comments

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2008

    So long as you are aware you are going against medical advice and are assuming a significant risk of recurrence, its certainly your right to make such a choice. 

  • ehall
    ehall Member Posts: 663
    edited August 2008

    I would urge you to seek out another medical opinion.  I believe the medical protocal for lump is radiation.  Buts it always your choice. 

  • CherylRubie
    CherylRubie Member Posts: 98
    edited August 2008

    If your tumor is less than 1 cm and you have no positive nodes, then you are Stage I, not Stage II.  However, if you are really Grade 2, this means you have a more aggressive tumor and radiation would definitely be indicated. Another step you can take is to get the OncotypeDx test, which will tell you your risk for recurrence so you can make a better decision.

    Good luck

    Cheryl

  • CherylRubie
    CherylRubie Member Posts: 98
    edited August 2008

    You can also consider one of the clinical trials, like accelerated partial breast irradiation.  That's what I did, and I had a total of 10 radiation treatments over the course of 5 days.  I had breast changes and pain in my breast, but no severe burns or peeling and no bad fatigue.  Mammosite is another possibility.

  • NatsFan
    NatsFan Member Posts: 3,745
    edited August 2008

    I second ehall's suggestion to get a second opinion.  You need to have a good relationship with your rad onc, whether or not you decide to accept a recommendation.  Your rad onc should be able to tell you in clear language the risks and benefits of radiation to you, given your special health circumstances.  While radiation may be generally indicated for lumpectomy patients, your special circumstances may make you the exception, or as others have said, you may be a candidate for Mammosite or other less-common radiation procedures. 

    You need to feel comfortable that the rad onc has taken into account your entire medical history and your personal feelings, not just the fact that you've had a lumpectomy.  Only you can determine how much risk you're willing to assume, but you need to know the facts about risks and benefits in your case. 

    For me, I declined radiation after visits to two rad oncs.  The first was like your rad onc and took it personally.  I was not comfortable with him at all and did not feel he'd analyzed my entire case, so I sought out a second opinion.  The second one was wonderful, and after reviewing my entire case, agreed that I was a true borderline case, and it was quite reasonable for me to decline radiation.

  • rubytuesday
    rubytuesday Member Posts: 2,248
    edited August 2008

    Get an actual copy of your surgery/pathology reports.  Find out if you have clean margins and how big they are.  That will make a lot of difference.  Do your research, possibly talk to another rad oncologist. Second opinions often raise questions that you hadn't thought of before.  Radiation is to prevent local recurrence.  The first words out of the first rad oncologist that I talked to were: "Radiation will do nothing to improve your longevity"...to which I responded "then what am I doing here??".   Depending on your pathology report, another option for you may be to have a mastectomy with or without reconstruction.  Best wishes with a difficult decision.

  • monee
    monee Member Posts: 91
    edited August 2008

    I too have decided not to have radiation. I did lumpectomy with rads on the left nine years ago.  Now I have bc on the right.  Although highly recommended, I declined radiation for two reasons. One, the radiation waiting room is a very sad place to be.  While my prognosis is excellent, others there are fighting for their lives.  I felt guilty and sad. Guilty because I had a chance to live and sad because I could not help them.  The second reason is because I have breast implants. The radiation caused severe capsular contracture on the left.  I had the implants replaced but my cosmetic result in my opionion is poor.  I have been living with these water balloons for nine years and I HATE IT. Having radiation on the right is going to cause even worse cosmetic consequences.

    I have been told many times that the reoccurance rate without radiation is 40 percent. I agree that is high.  But there is a 60 percent chance that I won't get it back.

    I have not had the nodes evaluated yet.  That happens in three weeks.  Positive nodes would make me reconsider my decision. But as of now, no radiation for me.

    We all can make our own decisions.

  • OrliNaaman
    OrliNaaman Member Posts: 40
    edited August 2008

    I have SO appreciated these replies!  I have my full reports (surgery, pathology etc) and it says there were wide clean margins guided by ultrasound.  It was graded at 2 despite the size of 9mm and 0/6 nodes.  I had a blood test this morning and my ESR was 80 (!) both hemoglobin and white blood cell counts remained low.  These problems are symptoms of lupus flair up.  I am too tired to get off the bed, and must go to work tomorrow at 6:30am.  There is only one place to receive the radiation and that is 1.5 hours from my work.  I feel that I MUST get some strength built up before I begin IF I do them.  I would like to return to the oncologist that I saw, as I likeher, and hope that I haven't blown it.  I deeply appreciate this forum!  Thank you all for taking the time. 

  • AnnNYC
    AnnNYC Member Posts: 4,484
    edited August 2008

    Orli,

    I'm surprised that your onc is so dismissive of your history of systemic lupus.  In everything I read about radiation recommendations, SLE and scleroderma are mentioned as possible reasons NOT to recommend radiation.

    I too am a little confused about your dx; as Cheryl Rubie said,  <1 cm with no affected nodes would appear to be Stage I.  Where I differ with CherylRubie is that I don't think Grade 2 automatically means you should have radiation.  As far as I know, Grade 2 is intermediate, Grade 3 would be more likely aggressive.

    Radiation has been standard with lumpectomy, but there are studies ongoing to evaluate results of lumpectomy without rads for early-stage BC.

    On the other hand, women with lupus who have more advanced BC have undergone rads successfully.

    RubyTuesday is right -- ask for all your pathology reports, and get a second opinion.  Also -- do you see a rheumatologist regularly for your lupus?  This might also be someone with experience and helpful opinions, who has seen other SLE patients treated for cancer, and might have a recommendation for an oncologist who "works and plays well" with your rheumatologist!

  • Rafaela
    Rafaela Member Posts: 48
    edited August 2008

    Me too - no rads for me.

    I had rads 20 years ago for head/neck cancer, right side and 6 months of chemo. From '04 - '06 had 4 malignant sarcomas in shoulder area - docs said most likely a post-rad effect. Had 3 surgeries over the course of 2 years.

    Not going to do the rads for the bc - my left side. With my past history, it would be my lousy luck to get complications to heart, lung, or chest wall. I've been for two opinions recently. Both docs are saying rads, then tamoxifen, BUT they can understand my decision not to do rads. With my dx, docs are saying reoccurance rate without rads is 20%.

    Yes, everyone is different and we do make our own decisions.

    Best wishes and good luck,

    Rafaela

  • Looneymom
    Looneymom Member Posts: 144
    edited August 2008

    Just look at your rate of re occurrence - then look at side effects to heart & other problems.  I have spent the last week researching  all of this (but for my dx) I had 2nd opin. oncol. 2 opin on rad. oncol. one said no - the other two spec. that got their hosp and cancer center  tumor boards to look at my close margins and I have a high grade , fast growing, etc...  cannot be treated with hormone treatment (er and pr neg.  large mass of DCIS tumor removed by lumpectomy  then mast)  Everyone is so different - get more that one opinion - learn from from us all.  Do not let one doctor make a guess, I have been injured, gotten sick from meds and employee mistakes at hospital too.  You have to take the time to do your homework on your indiv. dx and other health issues.  I have decided and 2 hosp tumor boards think I need rads, one doctor said no other treatment needed.  I do not want to have heart, lung, tissue damage to my expanders. So much to think about. But I am taking all this infor. and following my gut in stint and hope it goes to my advantage. I have long drive (1 hour) to and back to my rad for 6 weeks in Sept.   If it does not then there is plan B.  Good luck you will find many mentor and friends on this forum.  

  • meadows4
    meadows4 Member Posts: 170
    edited August 2008

    I know of a clinical study in which RFA can be performed instead of radiation but you have to be older than 50, have less than a gr 3 tumor, be hormone-receptor positive, and a non-lobular tumor.  I am in this clinical study.  Send me a private message if you want more information.

  • Hanna60978
    Hanna60978 Member Posts: 815
    edited December 2011
  • OrliNaaman
    OrliNaaman Member Posts: 40
    edited August 2008

    It was very good to get replies today as now I've added arimidex to treatments that I don't want.  Both with rads and hormonal treatments, the possible side effects are ALL in areas where I ALREADY have complications.  I am now laboriously seeking the input of each specialist who has helped me and knows these complications for their input. 

    My problem with other forms of treatment is that I don't live in North America am not in a situation where I can travel.  The treatment available here is excellent but perhaps not as varied.  Seeds are not an option.  As my lupus flair up retreats I feel more able to cope with making this decision, so I really appreciate all of the input. 

    I have had life long battles with extreme fatigue, depression, sensitivity to hormonal changes (like severe pms, menopausal problems etc), fragile bones, a body that doesn't heal (I have had more surgeries in my life then I care to remember and NONE of them have been without complication, usually a re-do, when I hear 'uh oh.  we have never seen this before'.)  So now I am hoping that with the input of these specialists who know me, maybe I can weigh the pros and cons better.

  • ICanDoThis
    ICanDoThis Member Posts: 1,473
    edited August 2008

    I know what you're talking about. I have severe asthma, to the point where my allergist and I have the "do I have asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)" every few years. And COPD contraindicates rads. Plus, the steroids and such I take for my lungs makes my bones more fragile than most.

    Most trials are done on healthy women, and I genuinely believe that our doctors do the best they can with those who present with difficult cases, but I do feel that they often try to shoehorn those of us with early-stage breast cancer, like you and me, into easy-to-manage compartments. I'm still struggling with lung problems 3 months after rads, and he says they aren't serious, but I find them scary. If I had it to do over again, I would insist on better answers than don't worry about it. But I didn't. And that was my choice.

    I did, however, get shirty about the arimidex. I'm on tamoxifen. The doctor couldn't give me answers that made me comfortable about the long term side effects it would have on me (because there is no data; it's still a new drug). And I'm already coping with too many complications.

    Good luck. 

  • Erica3681
    Erica3681 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited August 2008

    Rafaela,

    I can understand your reluctance to do radiation, given your history. I know a recently-diagnosed woman who had radiation for Hodgkins Disease years ago and isn't a candidate for breast radiation. Like you, she had early stage breast cancer. Since she couldn't have radiation, she opted for a mastectomy. This way, her chance of recurrence is very low. With only lumpectomy, the odds would be much greater that the cancer would recur. I'm someone who had a second breast cancer (in the other breast), and I can tell you that it's no fun to have to go through this twice. In your place, I'd do everything possible to prevent recurrence. If you don't want radiation, perhaps consider a mastectomy.

    monee,

    I had exactly the opposite reaction as you regarding the radiation waiting room. About a year after my first diagnosis of breast cancer (for which I had a lumpectomy and radiation), I found myself back at the radiation oncology center because a friend of mine needed whole brain radiation for breast cancer that had spread to her brain--she needed me to drive her to and from treatment. Seeing my friend and others receiving radiation for much more dire situations made me so glad that I'd done what I could to prevent a recurrence--which in my case meant having a full course of radiation.

    Ultimately, after DCIS was found in my other breast, I elected to have bilateral mastectomies. Again, I wanted to do whatever I could to prevent recurrence.

    Barbara

    BreastFree.org 

  • Celebris466
    Celebris466 Member Posts: 107
    edited August 2008

    I would agree to seek out a second opinion, however, I can also agree with your not wanting rad.  I had lumpectomy and rad back in 06 and then DCIS recurrence in 07.  Because I had radiation I had to have a lat flap in order to accommodate the radiated skin when I needed a mastectomy.  So I had radiation and had a recurrence and then my mastectomy was more complicated. 

     The only thing I would worry about with you is that if travel for radiation is difficult, is travel for more aggressive screening difficult. I would think that if you are opting out of rad you should really have screening twice a year at least MRI/Mammo. 

    I opted for No Tamox because I had a thickening of my uterin lining and didn't want to risk anything. 

  • OrliNaaman
    OrliNaaman Member Posts: 40
    edited August 2008

    ORLI HAS DECIDED TO GO AHEAD WITH TREATMENT.

    Ok...I thought I'd share with you;  After cancelling my radiation deciding against any further treatment...and incurring the wrath (or frustration) of my oncologist and surgeon...I began feeling better.  It's been a month since my lumpectomy and emergency repair and my lupus attack has, mercifully, backed off.  Yesterday I saw my family doctor and asked him to help me weigh all of the pros and cons.  He told me that the cancer that I'm fighting sends out microscopic cells, even if the nodes are all negative, and must be followed up with radiation and (because of blood clotting problems) arimidex.  He told me that, pending the rhumetoidolisgist (lupus specialist) ok on the 25th, he will reschedule radiation for me, and I should begin arimidex next Wed following the bone density test.  He told me that he would help me through any side effects.  I feel ok about this now... I have never participated in any sort of discussion board before.  I am really thankful for the encouragement that I receive here.  Thank you all. 

  • ICanDoThis
    ICanDoThis Member Posts: 1,473
    edited August 2008

    Yeah! I'm so glad you are getting the support you needed

  • OrliNaaman
    OrliNaaman Member Posts: 40
    edited August 2008

    Boy, what an AMAZING GROUP!  I really needed people to root for me like this.  Thank you SO much! 

  • GayleB
    GayleB Member Posts: 385
    edited August 2008

    Orli, I am so glad that your GP is helping you through this maze.  I, too, relied on my GP.  She is wonderful, and the only one of my multiple doctors who is looking at the "whole picture" rather than a specific part.  I wasn't a candidate for radation, and opted for bi-lateral mastectomy.  I declined chemo because of the potential damage to my heart.  It just wasn't worth an additional 3% benefit to me.  The Arimidex gives me an additional 12% of non-recurrence over 5 years.  Adding the chemo might have been a good thing, but it seemed to me and my husband that the risks to my heart muscle, which is already compromised, weren't worth it. 

    You are right, this is an amazing group of women.  And, the more information we have the better able we are to intelligently and realistically get on with our treatment and our lives.  Peace to all.

  • sunflower77
    sunflower77 Member Posts: 5
    edited January 2012

    Me too - no more rads for me again!

    I had rads to bone mets in the past and I interrupt my rads to brain mets.

  • apple
    apple Member Posts: 7,799
    edited January 2012

    Orli - I think you are making a good decision.. It is nice to have support here as well as a good medical team on your side.

    Best of luck to you as you continue to fight. this monster beast of a disease. 

  • burma
    burma Member Posts: 13
    edited January 2012

    Hello, Orilnaaman,

    Am so sorry you had the ER experience, but understand it can happen.   I, too, have decided against rads.   Have autoimmune low thyroid disease, celiac disease, and with all that autoimmunity as you have, just think I'll risk a return.

    My RadOnc was also rather "short" with me when I explained my reasons and there are many side effects that one MAY experience.     At 73 and reasonably healthy, prefer to keep my quality of life and lef the Universe be in charge.    Will eat properly, exercise by walking, and trust that will prevent.

    My wonderful surgeon was so pleased with path report and said it looks as though you won't need radiation.  That counts big time for me.

    Also, my head/heart kept saying, "Don't do it."   At my age have learned to listen to intuition.

    Some drs. use the Van Nuys scale for determining severity of cancer...........I am a 9, with 12 the highest, which is not great.    My surgery was beginning of Jan,  2012.   Am DCIS Stage 0, Grade 3, 4.4cm.........Will be aware, but not going to worry about a "come-back".      .

    Glad someone else feels as I do, that the side effects and how your body may respond is not worth the rads.    Many go through it just fine.  Am really happy they did.

    Here's to your decision!!

    Burma

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