Why do people die of this? Flipping out a little here

People die of breast cancer when it spreads to an organ or tissue that your body needs to survive and causes that organ to fail.  Breast cancer can metastasize to any other part of the body but is know for moving to the lungs, liver, bones and brain.  At that point it is considered stage 4.

There is no cure for breast cancer at any stage.  That does NOT mean that you can't live to be 99 and die in your sleep from something else, but it does mean that once you have had it you are a greater risk.

If the people who are telling you that "women don't die af breast cancer" are a part of your medical team, get a new team, because that is crap.  I can send them a list of my friends who have died. 

I don't me to give yo the impression that your situation means you are going to die of cancer.  Lots and LOTS of woman get their treatment and then go on with perfectly healthy lives.  the "no one dies of BC" thing is just a pet peeve of mine

Deb C

Amazing what and who are lying to BC pts in this day and age.  Yes, many die of other things.  They get BC mets to the lung and die of that, so the record says Lung cancer.  IT wasn't lung cancer, it was BC that metasticized ot the lung.  They get brain mets, it's still Breast cancer, just met's to the brain.  Or they get pneumonia, b/c the lung cancer has taken over the lung and the fluid causes it, but it's still BC that killed them, just not listed as that on a death certificate maybe more like pneumonia.  They did that with my dad.  20 years ago.  Lung cancer and then skin, then esophogeal.  They listed pneumonia as the cause of death!  HA!  Ya think maybe it was more the esoph cancer that did that?  He couldn't talk, barely drink and got pneumonia and never recovered.  Sad, but yes....in the end, they (some ) die from it or the complications from it.  Still, if they hadn't had the Breast cancer, they'd wouldn't have had the complications of mets that killed them...

Sounds like a petpeeve of many of us. 

I love your response Debbie to Therese. The positive attitude you have is encouraging to all who are going through this. I feel it is important to keep the internet search down to a minimum. Listen to what the health care providers are telling you. If you dig too deep, it will make you more anxious. Positive attitude is everything, it is 50% of the healing in my opinion. Mind over matter. This too shall pass! Everyone is different, and we all have our own story. Stick to the positives. I think this website is fantastic. You can't get any more real than here, and it is a positive site. Hang tough Therese!

Theresa - you need to take yourself to the library or bookstore and get a copy of Susan Love's Breast Book.  She is very mainstream and tells it like it is.  Do your best to get it read, at least the chapters that apply to you at the moment.

People in doctor's offices tell you all kinds of stuff.  Half the time they're just plain out of date, part of the time they want you to chill out so you'll get our of their space and they won't be late for the next appointment and can get home on time.  I'm an IT person, I tell my users' all kinds of half-truths when I suspect that they are clueless and I want them gone.  It's not diabolical, it's more that it's not my job to explain the world to people. 

Your best defense is to read up on it all, which is why I'm recommending Susan Love.  The more you know the better questions you can ask and the more informed you'll come across to various medical professionals.  If they think you have a clue they're much more likely not to put you off with some stupid-@ss answer.

Women do die from breast cancer, but you aren't dying right now, and if you study up a little you'll get the best care. 

 Breast cancer treatment for early, node negative disease is delivered with a curative intent.... and that intent exists because it is curable. Later stage cancer treatments are delivered with the intent to either control or only palliate

MarieKelly,

Although I understand the intent of your statement above, I do not necessarily agree with it.  Stage I through Stage III (localized and regionalized) are treated with a curative intent.  It is only stage IV that is considered not curable but treatable.  Many women with node positive disease are possibly cured along with those who are node negative.  The problem is that for all invasive breast cancer (stage 1 to stage III) the only way you know you are cured is if it doesn't come back.  The biology of the cancer is becoming more important than the size and lymph node status.  Just look at some of the results of the oncotype dx test that women on these boards have taken.  You sometimes see higher recurrence scores for women with small tumors and node negative than larger tumor and 1-3 positive nodes.   However, I do agree that the statement that breast cancer does not kill anyone anymore is a very reckless statement as we all sadly know that just isn't true.  

Interesting discussion, particularly with regard to the whole question of whether or not breast cancer can be cured.

I agree that there is no cure for breast cancer.  There is simply no treatment available that is guaranteed to cure all women who get breast cancer.  In fact, there is no treatment available that is guaranteed to cure any women who get breast cancer.  Some women who are diagnosed with BC will die from it.  However most women who get BC will survive and most women will never face a recurrence.  These women have been cured.  So breast cancer can be cured, even though there is no cure. 

The problem with BC is that you just never know if you are cured or not.  With the exception of those who are Stage IV, for the rest of us, our doctors believe that our BC cells were completely contained with the breast, or at most, had moved into the lymph nodes and never travelled further (except possibly for a few stray cells). Through surgery and other treatments, the objective is to remove and/or kill off all the cancer cells in the breast and the nodes, and for those who have chemo, to kill off any stray cancer cells that might have unknowingly escaped into the rest of the body.  If this is done successfully, then we are cured.  In most cases, that's the result. 

But there is that big "if".  If the cancer cells were all successfully removed and/or killed off.  Cancer cells are microscopic - while our doctors can be virtually certain that they are all gone, you can never be 100% sure.  A stubborn cell or two could remain and over time, multiply (as is the nature of cancer cells) and then one day show up as a recurrence, local or distant.  And because breast cancer cells can be very slow growing, if it's just a few cells that have survived the treatment, it could be years - 10 years, even 20 years - before these cells have multiplied enough to be found.  That's why none of us can ever consider ourselves cured, even though most of us are. 

So, once diagnosed, we all have to live with the uncertainty.  Personally I think the best approach is to assume that you've been cured rather than live in fear that you haven't been.  There's no point in worrying about something that hopefully will never happen.  At the same time, every BC patient should be aware that a recurrence could happen and should be diligent in their screening so that if it does happen, it's caught as quickly as possible.  I get so angry when I hear that women have been told by their doctors that they "never have to worry about BC again", leading these women to be less than diligent in their future screening.  That's dangerous and stupid.  Just like it's stupid for a medical professional to tell a patient that nobody dies from BC.  They might have been trying to be reassuring, but it was simply a dumb thing to say.

MarieKelly, here's how I understand the distinction (and someone, please, jump in and correct me if I'm wrong).  With some cancers, once you hit that magic five-year-disease-free milestone, the chance of recurrence pretty much disappears: you're no more likely to be diagnosed with that cancer again than someone who was never diagnosed in the first place.

For reasons that I don't understand, breast cancer isn't like that.  The risk remains.  It's a risk, not a certainty, and many/most of us will never have to confront it directly, but it's still there.

I agree that this whole discussion of what constitutes "cure" is really interesting.

Linda

I guess it's really all in the way you choose to look at it. To me, someone is cured of their breast cancer when there's been no evidence of it returning after 10,15, 20 years. Sure, they might get cancer again, and that risk is always going to be present for just about everyone, but I just don't associate the presence of lifetime risk to mean breast cancer should be considered a chronic illness and incurable. Another thing that I've always disagreed with in my 4+ years on this forum is when the prospect of cancer recurrence is refered to as a "crap shoot". I've read that here many times throughout the years, and I just don't think it's true at all...at least not in the way one thinks of the complete unpredictability that's inherent in a true crapshoot.  Breast cancer is a highly heterogeneous disease, which is exactly why there will never be one single treatment that will cure the cancer in everyone it's given to. But yet favorable and unfavorable prognostic factors are known and widely used to predict the liklihood of recurrence both distant and local as well as the probability of cure.  Obviously not with 100% accuracy, but a fairly good prediction is possible. 

And now with the advent of genomic testing, it's even more predictable than ever. There's even a few research groups who have been working on a gene expression grade index to replace histologic grade, particularly regarding histological grade 2 tumors, in which they can now more accurately predict things like recurrence and DFS by sub-categorizing these grade 2's into two separate subgroups - those that act much less aggressive and behave like a grade 1, and those that are more aggressive and behave like a grade 3.   Some are even suggesting that this gene expression index shows that there really are only two tumor grades, either a 1 or a 3, and that grading breast cancers this way would even further increase the predictability of their behavior. In my view, that sure goes a long way in countering the crap shoot theory.

Doctors, researchers, pathologists, surgeons, and others highly respected in the field of breast cancer have said to me that there is absolutely no way to predict who will or who will not relapse.  The idea of risk is just a mathematical model of trying to quantify and deal with this fact.  Also, there is no way of knowing who will and will not respond to treatment, or even if the response will save a life.  There is some headway being made in addressing this uncertainty, but there is a very long way to go before anyone could say the word "cured" with any kind of credibility. The idea of being more or less hopeful based on statistics, prognostic factors, etc. has kept me researching and looking for facts, when in reality it is time for me to be as proactive about my health as I can and then move on with my life.  Knowing this and doing it.... well, we'll see.

I choose hope .... peace .... and to learn all I can to be sure that I get the best treatment available.  None of us are God, including the doctors and nurses.  My first oncologist was a nightmare .... he started out okay but then he left the room and then proceeded to tell me that I was going to die because he did not think that I could survive the chemo and that my cancer was aggresive ... ya da ya da ... he took my hope ... he took a part of me that I am not sure I will recover.  When I talked to my social worker and told him what happened, he went to talk to the doctor and doc said "good, I was hoping that she would pick up on that."  Cruel monster jerk.

 I found a second oncologist who phooed phooed that doctor's statement.  He said that he has seen people who are in worse shape healthwise do just fine.  And, I did ... In fact, my second onco gave me one more treatment than what the first onco said he would do.  Point is ... I made it.  My t-shirt from him says ... "Forget cancer, I survived chemo." 

 I would rather someone tell me, "I don't know" if this cancer will kill you or not .... but for now, let's focus on what we can do -- let's kick butt.  I choose hope ... but honesty -- I don't know.  I am a Hospice Chaplain and I know that the patients I see want to know the truth and they want hope.

 I have 4 precious grandchildren who want their KK around for many years ... not to mention, my dtr, my husband and my dog Moses  .... and the people of the church I lead want to see me around for years to come.

 All any of us can do .... is educate, take care of ourselves, and to be aggresive in seeking treatments/tests. 

Everyone one of you are in my prayers.

Blessings,

Kay

I must say I too agree that breast cancer is NOT cured! I have just finished radiation, after a lumpectomy and reexcision in May. I started Arimidex this week and plan to keep a positive attitude, yet I still feel there is always that chance of it coming back! I did have the oncotype DX test which came back low risk for reoccurence, so did not have chemo, which I am thankful for, yet I wonder......!!??  I guess the best we can do is live life to the fullest, as none of know when or how we will die anyway! My husband died of a malignant brain tumor 9 years ago..he hated the word "terminal"..he said "Hell, we are all terminal" .

 IDC 1.1 cm Dx4-17-08 Grade I, stage II,ER/PR +,Her2-

I ended my frequent flyer points from the cancer hospital this year.  (Although I did attend appts much more in the first 5 years).  I was told I am now considered a cancer survivor.  However, the same oncologist told me the chance of my cancer recurring remained at 10% (when I asked the question 4 years out of treatment).  Triple negative cancers tend to be fast growing and grade 3, and likely do not take years to grow once they decide to.  My oncologist also told me in so many terms that I must be vigilant with check ups, and that she sometimes sees women back after discharge that have asked her "How could this happen?" stressing the point to me mammograms are equally important after dishcarge, and that dishcarge from a cancer hospital is not the infinite wave goodbye to the big C.  I was also told....though....that the longer you go without a recurrence, the better the chances are you will never recur....but there is always that 10% possibility.

I just looked in and thought this was such an appropriate post, because this morning on the radio, I heard that Christina Applegate has breast cancer , but that it's "not life-threatening". Since when is cancer of ANY kind Not life threatening?

Since my dx last year 2 ladies in my local support group has passed away after fighting this monster for over 5 yrs each and another good friend I grew up with is battling mets now, going for crainal gamma surgery Friday for the 2nd time this year. It is terrible that some of the 'professionals' we deal with try to gloss over the facts and say that no one dies from bc anymore.

Sheila

Yes, pure DCIS is not life-threatening.  With DCIS, the cancer cells are completely confined to the milk ducts and as such, cannot travel outside the breast.  So DCIS cannot become mets and therefore is not life threatening.

This doesn't mean however that someone diagnosed with DCIS is off the hook.  DCIS, if not properly treated, can have a very high recurrence rate.  And 50% of recurrences come in the form of IDC.  At that point, it is life-threatening, as all invasive cancers are.  So this is the dilemma for DCIS patients.  It's early stage, non-life threatening BC so you don't really want to over-treat it.  But on the other hand, you don't want to under-treat it either, since the risk of recurrence can be quite high.

One other thing to add:  Until someone has their 'final' surgery, you can't know for sure that all that's there is pure DCIS.  In about 10%-15% of DCIS cases, a microinvasion of IDC is found hidden in with the DCIS.  At that point, the staging changes to Stage 1 and mets, although unlikely, does become possible.  It's also believed that in up at about 10% of cases of DCIS, there may be an IDC microinvasion that is never found.  In that case, the patient believes that they are Stage 0, but in fact they are Stage 1.   Nothing about any of this is every clear cut!