How has the Pandemic affected you as a cancer patient/survivor

Anonymous

🤦🏻 Dying of COVID more than any other cause.

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/police-anti-vaccin...

ChiSandy

Know what BCO needs, across the board (no pun intended)? "ReactEmojis," like FB and NextDoor have. So many times I read a post and want to say "right on" or "wow," but by the time my reply posts it's several pages onward. Would save time and typing too.

Tonight was OSF Little Co. of Mary's annual Physician Dinner-Dance, first one since early Nov. 2019. It was at the Morton Arboretum, in the "White Pine Pavilion" ventilated tent--cocktails were in the tent & on the lawn, dinner in the tent. Sadly, attendance was sparse (I've had more people at my coffeehouse gigs)--people are still scared to gather indoors, and I guess they didn't realize the whole shebang would be alfresco. (So much for the mask I blinged-out DIY--I only wore it in the restroom). At first, I thought maybe the anti-vaxers refused to attend--but all the hospital staff are vaccinated. (Only the "plus ones" needed to show proof, because the hospital has doctors' vaccination records). Bob & I had a table for 8 all to ourselves. None of his colleagues we usually see at these dinners were there--some were on duty, others didn't feel like driving out to the west suburbs (they prefer the city landmarks like the museum campus), and we were probably the "oldest fartz" there--mostly Gen-Xers & millennials. Could be the older docs were staying home due to age & underlying conditions. Pity--the bar was free & open, the hors d'oeuvres plentiful (the waitstaff kept urging us to take as many as we wanted), and the steak & salmon spot-on. The usual society band was replaced by a hospital staffer doubling as DJ.

Chicago's positivity rate continues to drop, as do hospitalizations. Deaths remain steady, because they tend to lag 2-4 weeks past diagnoses (and 4 weeks ago transmission was much higher). CDPH had talked about easing the indoor mask mandate for fully-vaccinated people once the case rate drops below 11 per 100K people (the county is at 17 and the city at 13), but I hope they keep it--especially with flu season starting in a week or two. (Heck, I sometimes find myself masking outdoors in uncrowded settings--pollen & mold counts have been particularly brutal).

Speaking of venom extractor kits:

"Sister got bit by a copperhead snake in the woods behind the house. Nobody was home, so I grabbed her foot and I sucked that poison out. Sister got better in a month or two when the swelling it went down. But I'd started off my teenage years with a poison in my mouth."--Victoria Williams, "Summer of Drugs."

ChiSandy

Serenity, I'd read that statistic too--COVID is the leading cause of death for first responders: more than shootings, line-of-duty injuries & heart attacks combined. I'm not a fan of "de-funding" or abolishing the police despite the institution's racist slave-patrol origins (though I think it needs a gut rehab, from recruitment--to weed out the racists & power-trippers before they're admitted to the academy--to reallocating funds to mental health intervenors), but it doesn't surprise me in the least that those who think "protect & serve" means "occupy & rule" are similarly right-wing-wrongheaded about masks & vaccines too.

sbelizabeth

ChiSandy, my grandma was born in rural Arkansas in the 1880s. She told me my uncle got "snakebit" by a poisonous snake. They "socked his leg down in" a bucket of kerosene. She declared she saw the venom floating out into the kerosene, all green and deadly.

Antivaxxers, leave your kerosene buckets outside the vaccination clinics. You can sock your arm down in when your 15-minute observation period is up.

AliceBastable

DivineMrsM

Ain’t it the truth, Alice!!!!!!!

MinusTwo

sorry ChiSandy - I strongly disagree about the emojis. This in not Facebook or Next Door - thank goodness. If what we read is of some interest or value, it's worth taking the time to at least type HOORAY or SO SORRY.

Chowdog

Get your flu shot! swine flu case found in Ohio

https://fox8.com/news/ohio-reports-case-of-swine-f...

I also don't think the react emoji is good for BCO. I think it will just amp up unnecessary drama and create more divide.

Anonymous

I'm so dumb. I can do 6th grade math. After 18 months, I still rely on what the consensus of infectious disease specialists say.

Anonymous

I don't mind if COVID+ anti-vaxxers decide to self-medicate at home, but an anti-vaxxer shouldn't be allowed to into the hospital to do this. I don't think he was a relative.

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/joe-mccarron-cov...

exbrnxgrl

I do not delight in the sickness or passing of others, even when prevention was available, but I remain curious about the thoughts of those who became very sick or died from Covid, in an attempt, probably futile, to understand their thinking. I ran across a site, https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/desire-powell-53-administrative-assistant-anti-vaxxer-didn-t-desire-vaccine-died-of-covid , that chronicles the illness or death of anti-vaxxers. What really struck me was the number of people who truly believed that Covid19 wasn’t worse than the flu or that they were in such superior states of good health that they would never catch it! Quite a few also regretted being misinformed or unaware . What? Huh? These are the most baffling reasons for not wanting the vaccine. Where have these folks been for the last 18 months? I feel sympathy for their loved ones but how could anyone be “misinformed” at this point unless they simply choose to be?

Anonymous

Alberta needs a hard lockdown. They're doing the opposite.

DivineMrsM

exbrnxgrl, I have been following the sorryantivaxxer site (I think I mentioned it here as well) and I read some of the posts after these people get Covid who say, “wow, I didn't know it would be this bad, that I would get this sick.". Like you, I cannot comprehend how these people are not getting the message: Covid19 can be deadly and its Delta variant is even more lethal. There also seems to be a surprising number of health care workers listed on the site who were antivax and then died of Covid. To me it is even more mind boggling that some in the medical field choose not to protect themselves with a vaccine. Did they even ever trust in the medicine and health care they were providing? Or did they just go in to the field because of job availability and pay?

wrenn

I don't think any profession is immune to irrational thinking and I wonder how many in health care or in that line of work are in it for altruistic reasons? I worked in health care for many years and didn't come across that many who were true helpers no matter how good they wer at their job. There were also a lot of not so bright ones. 🤷🏼♀️

exbrnxgrl

Yes, the number of anti-vax nurses was surprising. There were also quite a few posts that described parents “who would do anything for their children” who have now left their children without one and sometimes, both parents. I still feel like a bit of a ghoul for viewing that site. It hasn’t furthered my understanding of why people are against the vaccine.

Anonymous

There are many levels of nursing education. It has a low barrier to entry.

No profession is immune to misinformation. Even an immunologist is involved in the COVID+ patient who was convinced to leave AMA by an anti-vaxxer. She was terminated recently from her university.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news...

exbrnxgrl

True about the different levels of nursing. Most, if not all, of those listed simply say “nurse" and make no distinction between the levels. I don't know about other nursing levels but in my area of CA, getting into some nursing programs, BSN specifically, is quite difficult so no low barrier there. I know you can also get an associates degree and an RN at some community colleges.It may be easier for LVNs.

ChiSandy

Minus, in lieu of a ReactEmoji, I'd definitely like to see a "comment" option here (like on Quora)--so that the "hooray," "I disagree," or "so sorry" typed reaction could be clearly shown to refer to the post in question--rather than showing up several pages forward after the thread has taken several turns in another direction. I suppose one could "comment" by identifying the poster and cutting/pasting a quote from the post--but that would be so cumbersome as to be counterproductive. Meaningful discourse requires clarity and (ideally) specificity. (Isn't meaningful discourse part of what this site is all about)?

Serenity, there's a folksinger-songwriter of mine who's digging herself an ever-deeper rabbit hole of vaccine disinformation--especially railing against the entire pharmaceutical industry and "allopathic medicine" community. (The latter a term invented by the alterna-woos). Even before the pandemic, I have felt dismayed that so many of my fellow creatives vehemently reject actual medicine in favor of homeopathy (which is scientifically ridiculous), "healthy lifestyle" (almost universally vegan) and "alternative" herbal remedies. I suppose it's a combination of an artistic lifestyle being less-than-lucrative, and a sense that one's superior talent makes them privy to information that "they" (Big Pharma & the AMA) don't want you to know because "they" can't patent and therefore profit off it. I nearly came to blows with someone in my former BC support group--which fell by the wayside after our facilitator died--kept railing against "AMA medicine." The AMA has no enforcement authority whatsoever--it publishes a medical journal, holds (or held, pre-pandemic) conventions, lobbies (prior to the OrangeJuliusCaesar administration, conservatively), provides affinity-group discounts on merch & services like insurance or car rentals, and levies outrageously expensive dues (the lobbying & dues being why my cardiologist husband has steadfastly refused to join).

And despite his usually liberal stance and generally quick wit, Bill Maher increasingly infuriates me when he steers every COVID panel discussion to obesity as the root of all medical problems, and eating meat and dairy as the cause of obesity. Even back in his late-'90s Politically Incorrect days he would insult non-slender people with whom he disagreed as "big fat pie wagons." (I'm a mildly overweight "petite pastry cart" by his definition, but I'm also allegedly dragging us all down the road to global perdition because I eat animal flesh, eggs & cheese).

I've tried repeatedly over the years to be vegan, but my metabolism can't handle the amount of starch necessary to make it palatable; and so the pounds piled on and my glucose & lipid levels soared. (And when it comes to those "nutritionists" like the former figure-skater PhD Joel Furman who does PBS pledge-week programs and says he happily exists on just green veggies, nuts and a tiny amount of olive oil...oy to the vey).

Sorry for inadvertently dissing any vegans here--but not sorry for dissing those trying to militantly shove veganism down my omnivorous throat.

wrenn

I knew many with low level education who were amazing.

Anyone could teach elementary schools back in the day and some of those were amazing teachers. Formal education doesn't equal intelligence or sound mental health.

ChiSandy

Two of the smartest people I know are autodidacts--one who dropped out of high school at 16 and didn't get his GED till he was 40; and another who spurned an acceptance by Harvard but dropped out of a small college/theological seminary after one semester. They both are incredibly well-read.

wrenn

I have 3 sisters who are nurses. The first became an RN when women were teachers or nurses. She was a good nurse if bossy. :-) Not really intelligent but a hard worker.

The second was a BsN and was a competitive narcissist who made everything about her and loved drama. She then became a nurse practitioner and is still a shitty caregiver. LOL

The younger one was an RN and was fantastic (flew 3000 miles to care for me after BMX)). Her patients and co-workers loved her. She was very intelligent but shone as a caring person who loved her patients and when above and beyond. She got her degree in her 50s because it was recommended and nothing changed about how she was as a nurse. Those are only 3 different examples but again I think we shouldn't expect health care workers to be any less crazy when it comes to covid than anyone else.

I have another sister who has 2 honours degrees and a very important job in a well known company in Michigan. She voted for Trump and believes all of the conspiracies. ALL of them. Her and her family got covid but apparently she did get vaccinated later. Oddly she is angry about anyone who says vaccines caused her daughter's autism. That's my life story.

Anonymous

Some nurses have 2 years of education while others have advanced degrees.

The level of education attained is related to intelligence, but opportunity is a factor, too. So, you get all kinds. Even an immunologist became an anti-vaxxer. Sound mental health is certainly not a requirement for higher education.

I only brought up the different levels of education because people are surprised to see nurses as anti-vaxxers. They may not see the suffering of COVID patients if they don't have the training to work in the COVID ward. Apparently even some who do still are anti-vaxxers. ???

In my extended family there are physicians, nurses, a pharmacist, and an EMT. All vaccinated. Some crazy.

Harley07

@wrenn - you made a great point with “we shouldn't expect health care workers to be any less crazy when it comes to Covid". I think that's true of health care workers with regard to anything. They are humans with diverse feelings, thoughts and experiences - just like any of us. They aren't perfect, some are great, some are awful and some are in between.

ChiSandy

My ocular onc, the city's top eye cancer and retina specialist, got the COVID vaccine because the university medical center (where my husband did his residency & fellowship) mandated it. Testing was not an option because it only reveals if you had a viral load at the time when that swab was stuck up your nose. It was the first vaccine he ever took. (Glad he's managing my ocular melanoma--and that he's not my PCP).

Anonymous

This pandemic seems to be a big deal. Not like the flu or a bad cold.

https://montrealgazette.com/pmn/health-pmn/19-pand...

AliceBastable

My dad used to say "Some people use all their brains on education and don't have anything left for life." This was in reference to my sister, who has a Master's but has spent most of her adult life walking into the very walls that she erected.

I'm not sure that education has much to do with someone being anti-vax, any more than the easy assumption that the MAGA bunch are ignorant hicks. It's just not true. Some are gullible and under-educated, but a lot are just arrogant and think they're superhuman. I watched the movie "Compulsion" the other day, the barely-fictionalized telling of the Leopold-Loeb case, and those two brilliant but disgusting young men reminded me of some of this country's current crop of the most cringe-worthy young politicians and their supporters. Some of them actually think they're so special that none of the laws of the country, nature, or science apply to them.

sbelizabeth

Entry-level registered nurses have either an associate's degree (ADN) from a community college or a bachelor's degree (BSN) from a university. In the old days, you could also become an RN with a diploma from a hospital-based program, but I don't believe you can find a diploma program anymore.

Many employers are phasing out hiring ADN nurses and encouraging their existing ADN nurses to get their bachelor's degree. If a nurse wants to advance beyond basic bedside nursing, into administration or management, a bachelor's degree is becoming increasingly mandatory.

In most states, licensed practical nurses (LPN), and in California, licensed vocational nurses (LVN) can legally take on more patient care tasks than a nursing assistant but fewer than an RN.

A nurse with a master's degree can be a manager, professor, administrator, researcher, and more. A master's degree is required for nurse practitioners.

Scholastic background aside, does the nurse care deeply about the well-being of her/his patients? Does she/he sense the patient's pain, anxiety, fear, despair, and want to help? Education can't teach compassion, and this is the fulcrum on which nurses must be weighed.

Cowgirl13

"Education can't teach compassion...". Thank you, sbelizabeth.

moth

just fyi, unlike in the US, Canadian RNs are all bachelor's degree of nursing holders. The programs are v competitive. many require 1-2 yrs of university level pre-req's to apply. My school admits on GPA of the uni pre-reqs & it's ~ A- to get in. lots of people try repeatedly to get in to the nursing programs & apply to schools all over trying to get in.

We have practical nurses too; they need an 18-24 mo college diploma.

ime, some of the most fluffy out to lunch nurses are the ones with masters or PhDs (as opposed to the NP programs). Lots of the curriculum here is about integrative practice & tolerance etc etc which is all lovely but then you get a nurse talking about how reiki would help an icu pt & your jaw drops....

wrenn

Moth, I wonder if people who got into nursing years ago were forced to upgrade their educations? My sister was an RN until about a decade ago when she got her degree. Her work paid for it I think (shite memory).

When I was in MSJ for BMX there was one RN (BsN) on duty to do meds and the rest were LPNs (or equivalent). Might have been a fluke but I was in for 4 days and all were really sweet people persons. Staffing might be different at different hospitals.

I hope you are recovering from your fall. I really am still mind blown that you had that piled on top of everything else. Hope it is improving quickly.

Edited to fix gender stereotyping.