A place for progressive atheists.

Miriandra

Wrenn and SB, I'm so sorry for your losses. A friend of mine was murdered by a hitman (his life cost all of $2000), but that's the closest I've ever been to that flavor of evil. I hope you've found peace and closure after going through something like that.

(((((Hugs)))))

wanderweg

wrenn and Santabarbarian - my deepest condolences for our losses. And I agree with both of you that retribution murder by the state is not the answer. As humans, we should be better than that

santabarbarian

I kept thinking how the person who killed my brother might have a sister and how the death penalty would be putting her through the same loss... no good is done, with retribution.

WorryThePooh

santabarbarian, very sorry to hear what happened to your brother, I think that is a good way to think, and would take great strength of character from you to see things that way.

wanderweg

Anyone else tracking the impeachment hearings? I have to admit that I have gone back several times to watch Vindman correct Nunes on the appropriate way to address him. Hope the Republicans had some aloe handy for that burn.

And then Sondland deciding to tell the truth and implicate Trump. Wowza. Trump can't get away with calling his own appointee and financial backer a "Never Trumper." And better still, saying everyone knew it was a quid pro quo. Everyone includes that weasely “Christian” Pence. I can’t even say how much I’d like to see the immoral lot of them in prison.

Spookiesmom

President Pelosi has a nice sound!!!

wanderweg

Spookiesmom - It does, and there are others I'd also love to call President. But at this point, I just want NOT to have president in front of the name of that lying, cheating worm in office.

Miriandra

If the hearings weren't entertaining enough yet...

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2019/11/14/beyon...

xD

wanderweg

miriandra - That would certainly make it more lively!

Miriandra

"All the creeps and shadies! All the creeps and shadies."

LaurenInPHX

A little early, but too funny...hope everyone has a great secular, peaceful, and healthy holiday!

WorryThePooh

Haha that's a good one Lauren. I am not sure if you mean Thanksgiving when you say 'holiday'? We don't have Thanksgiving here but I'll take your lovely wish as being for Christmas in my case which we celebrate as all good atheists do, with plenty of food, drink and some new swimming pool toys.

Spookiesmom

Merry early Yule🎄🎄

Miriandra

These may be useful for some this Thanksgiving post-dinner debating.

https://www.facebook.com/Americans4TaxFairness/pho...

(I wish it were available on a platform other than FB, but it is what it is.)

JWoo

Hope everyone has a happy Thanksgiving!

Trishyla

This thread has been quiet for some time. Hope everyone is doing well.

I came across this quote on a Facebook post from a second cousin. Never met her, but I swear she's my sister from another Mister.

Apologies if it's already been posted on the Atheist's thread.

"A religious person will do what she is told - no matter what is right, whereas a spiritual person will do what is right, no matter what she is told."

Wren44

Good one. I like that.

Yogatyme

DH saw something on Twitter that said something to the effect that most of the people who follow the teachings of Jesus through their behaviors are Atheists. This led to a discussion of folks we know who are Atheists and agreed we really do try to be accepting, non-judgmental, helpful,genuinely kind, etc. Our Christian friends & family members are full of judgment and are always pushing their beliefs on others.

magiclight

A commentary by Peter Wehner in NYT on Christians:

"After all, they insist, Mr. Trump may be personally immoral, but he is also a viciously effective street fighter for their cause. He is also the only person preventing a takeover of America by the Democratic Party and progressives — and that, they insist, would produce a moral calamity nearly unmatched in American history....

Sohrab Ahmari — a convert to Catholicism who is both the op-ed editor of The New York Post and a contributor to the religious magazine First Things — was so outraged that drag queens were reading stories to children at a library in Sacramento that he has relegated civility to a secondary virtue while turning against modernity and classical liberalism.

Mr. Ahmari and those who share his worldview believe our traditions and way of life are under assault by an aggressive, ruthless adversary and that liberalism is a huge part of the problem... Whether these Christians will be able to walk back or not, the effects have been injurious. This apocalyptic moral mind-set has led to an alliance with a shockingly unethical figure, who embodies a mobster's mentality and an anti-Christian ethic. Mr. Trump, a skilled demagogue, has taken full advantage of this. There appears to be almost nothing he can say or do to break the bond that has developed, and virtually nothing that many of his Christian supporters will not excuse."

Oh my! I'm thinking that the PBS showing of Kinky Boots stage play is really an affront to their narrowmindedness.

wanderweg

Interesting post, magiclight. And not the point of it at all, but Kinky Boots is one of my all-time favorite movies

HikingLady

I appreciate this discussion thread---it does match my belief system.

To add to the discussion about whether 'Christians' are truly following Christian tenets, etc: I don't feel very attached to the word spiritual, but I am intensely committed to morality.

My moral compass and my belief systems about what's ethical and right are enormously important, and they shape my decisions and my interactions with others. These happen not to be attached to liturgies and stone tablets, but they are logical, and based on philosophical inquiry. Secular humanism. The so-called Religious Right has an extremely different morality code than mine.... Denying basic human rights, and on and on.... I feel quite like a foreigner in my country. Alas....

A friend of mine uses the word 'secular' to describe his non-attachment to religion. He explains that this word is a little less inflammatory than atheist, and he finds that in his (Jewish background, orthodox family) that word is more palatable and easier for people to take. I'm sticking with atheist, but I thought that his explanation of that was quite interesting.

magiclight

Hiking...The concept of morality is writ large in my conversations with the conservative Christians. When I bring up the term moral north in describing my position re: immigration, child endangerment, human trafficking, environment, income inequality, etc. etc. I also ask when the other person what there moral north is, the reply often has to do with the ends justify the means. Thus, they can back Trump knowing that he is (add your own descriptors) but that he will build walls to keep the 'other' our, appoint conservative Christian judges etc.etc.

santabarbarian

So much of "othering" goes back to early childhood, and the kind of "other" you had in your Mom. A good mother is a *safe, empathic* other. A good mother helps you understand and imagine the interior self of others because she understands and imagines her way into you. In early childhood and preverbal years this is conveyed through carrying, play, touch, eye-to-eye gazing, smiles and tickles, rocking, and other physically pleasurable things.

People who have mistrust and hatred of the other are very often reflecting their early life primary relationship.

The best thing we can do for a better world is to use our free time to be nurturing to small children who need to learn these things, encourage vulnerable moms, promote breastfeeding and attachment, etc. We have to plant trees as seedlings. Like Johnny Appleseed, we have to seed for the future.

magiclight

Santab...well stated.

Spookiesmom

This time, I have to say YAY CHURCH.

santabarbarian

Bravo

santabarbarian

this:

Vilma65

Makes sense...

santabarbarian

hahah this is horribly funny

MinusTwo

Oh Vilma. I agree with SantaBarbarian - 'horribly' funny.