Fibrosis or cording after radiation???

jessie123

I finished radiation a little over 4 months ago. It was not bad and I didn't have skin problems. However, I have 2 hard masses in my breast that have not gone away. Is that cording? What is cording? The mass on the side of my breast has hurt since the end of radiation as I get up out of bed in the morning, but the pain immediately goes away. There is a second one closer to the center of my breast. I've read about fibrosis -- sure hope it's not that!!! Has anyone had fibrosis?? I'm going to see my radiologist next week, but am hoping someone has had similar symptoms after radiation. Also my areola is still brown --- what's with that??? No one told me about these side effects when I was making my initial decision between BMX and lumpectomy. I am a little worried. Please tell me this is normal.

Ingerp

Cording is more like extending up into your armpit and really does feel like a cord. You likely have scar tissue where your surgery was. It feels hard. Allegedly massaging can help soften it up but most women don’t bother with it.

Spoonie77

I developed cording, fibrosis, rib dysfunction/broken ribs and lymphedema from RADs. I finished last year end of Oct, my RADs area is still tan, my nipple/aerola is still a much different color than my other. So as far as different coloring goes, sounds normal. Definitely bring up your concerns to your RO when you see them. It's totally possible to develop fibrosis and cording in the first year or so after RADs. Mine was hard, pebbly feeling, and in the larger areas felt like lumps and scared the crap outta me in the early days. Now I know that's just my SEs of RADs and it's my normal. I saw LE PT weekly in the beginning, then after a few months moved down to 2 x a month, then recently down to once a month. You'll figure out what your normal is as you go, until then ask questions and keep your team up to date when anything new pops up.

Keep us posted and let us know what you find out.

https://www.breastcancer.org/treatment/side_effects/aws

https://breast-cancer.ca/brosis-oid/

B-A-P

hi spoonie,

What did the lumps feel like ?

I have these ropy , movable lumps near my scar but there is one more prominent. It’s not rock hard , it is slightly soft. It freaked me out for a moment because I haven’t done an exam since my Mx in feb. had rads April-May so I feel at this time it’s probably scar tissue. My recent Ct was clear so I doubt it’s anything but , but ya know , it’s still freaky !

Just wondering if you had more input on what they felt like

TB90

Chording is painful. When you stretch the area, it hurts. When you press on the chord it hurts. I stretched out my chords even though it hurt. For me, it hurt in a good way. I know, crazy. Like wiggling a loose tooth as a child. Chords also exist in certain parts of the body. Arms and under breast down to abdomen. Should be easy to distinguish cording from other lumps or rope like breast tissue

SUPer52

I'm glad you started this thread, jessie123!

I did not get cording in my arm, but I did get some down my rib cage. About two months after I finished radiation, my rib cage felt very tight and no matter how much I stretched, I couldn't get it to loosen up. Eventually, a thin cord that ran from under the side of my breast down the side of my rib cage popped out. It was tight like a guitar string, and I could really only see it and feel it if I raised my arm over my head. My surgeon said it was a superficial thrombosis and that they can happen after rads and eventually go away on their own. I think it is called Mondor's cord? It went away fairly quickly, and when it did, the tightness in my rib cage went away also. I actually have been noticing some tightness and slight pain in my ribs again when I try to extend my arm to reach for something, so I wonder if I am getting another one. I do still have a seroma at the surgical site which feels both semi hard and semi squishy, a little swelling overall, and my areola is a little brown still too. It was very brown for quite some time, but eventually it did start to lighten up. It's not as light as the other one, but it's definitely improving. I do still get a little pain every now and then too. I find that when someone comes in for a hug that I am turning to the side to protect myself because a full-on frontal hug still hurts lol!

I had such minimal skin reaction during and immediately after radiation that I joked that maybe the machine wasn't working. Now the joke's on me haha because it is obvious I was radiated. I can't really complain too much, but like others here, I always wonder what's normal and what isn't. Neither my surgeon, medical oncologist, nor my radiation oncologist were concerned about anything when I had my follow up appointments with them. I go back to the MO in December and the RO in January, and I am hoping that things have returned at least closer to normal by then.

B-A-P, I wonder if the lump you are feeling is a seroma....your description sounds a little like what my seroma feels like.

TB90

Cording is called Mondors and is related to surgery more than radiation. It can follow breast enhancement or reduction surgery when no radiation occurred.

SUPer52

Thanks, TB90! Interesting!

B-A-P

Super52,

I had one in my axilla after surgery, and it was picked up on my last pet scan. The pet made no mention to one where I feel the current one. I feel like at this juncture it probably hasn’t formed this far after surgery but who knows

I do have similar lumps below my scar too. So I figure it’s gotta be normal. Unless multiple recurrences four months after rad and while on an AI is some cruel joke . My MT feels like it’s scar tissue. But man Is it ever hard to believe when you get the all clear.

Ingerp

I had cording show up several times, including over a year after surgery. It tended to be related to an increase in weightlifting on my part. The first time it happened, I called my BS's office and they said I could get a PT referral, or it would go away on its own. I never went to PT, and every time it went away on its own after several weeks.

jessie123

Thanks everyone - I'll see the radiologist next week. This morning it seemed a little better. I've been very weird since my surgery -- don't want to touch my breast - don't want to find anything. I know that is a bad idea, but I have no idea what lobular feels like since mine was a lump. So when I felt the breast yesterday because of pain I was surprised to find the thick places -- they may have been there the whole time. This morning it dawned on me that the pain might have been caused from physical therapy -- they were stretching my arms. I went to therapy because right after radiation ended my upper back, shoulders and neck got very stiff - no pain - just extreme tension. After a couple months it wasn't going away so I'm in therapy. My therapist said that radiation could have caused it, but I don't see how that could be. Does that seem plausible? My lymph nodes were not radiated. The months after treatment have been kind of stressful -- not as bad as treatment, but still stressful to me. I think I'm beginning to realize that I really did have cancer -- during treatment I was kind of like a zombie and really in la la land. All I could do then was read and read about ILC in hopes of making the correct decisions. Now I'm dealing with the reality of my diagnosis. Thanks again for your help. I'll let you know what the doctor says.

Spoonie77

it's extremely plausible IMO and in my experience. It truly doesn't matter where exactly in your chest area you are radiated, because those areas that recurve radiation all connect to other areas that then connect into the back and the neck and your shoulders causing tension, stiffness, and reduced range of motion. Radiated tissue shrinks and then pulls on and shortens anything else it is connected to.

My LE PT was the one who taught me that.

In the nine months that I've been in therapy since radiation to deal with cording, lymphedema, and fibrosis I've come to realize she's very accurate and very knowledgeable and usually right on the money.

I hope your Radiologist will have some good suggestions. And also I'll just say that I completely understand your reasoning for not wanting to touch your breasts. I felt the same way and I think that if I didn't have to touch my breasts twice a day to do my manual lymphatic drainage massage to manage my lymphedema I probably wouldn't have touched it more than I absolutely had to for fear of finding something else.

jessie123

Spoonie -- You have cording and fibrosis? Do they feel different? And to top it off you also have lymphedemia. Did you get that from the lymph node biopsy or the radiation? When we are making our decision about treatment they don't tell us the possible side effects which evidently are not that uncommon. I wouldn't mind having a BMX -- I was just too worried about 4 to 5 hours under general anesthesia -- thought that would be the most dangerous part of the surgery. Too risky !! So you think the radiation could have caused this stiffness. Before PT it was even radiating into my jaws at times -- like you're going to throw up but you're not sick to your stomach. It's a horrible feeling that I've never had before. How are you getting your insurance to pay for PT all year. My insurance book says it pays for only 14 PT treatments a year. I'm a retired state employee so my insurance has always been wonderful --- will have to look into this more as I'm sure I'm going to need more that 14 treatments. Noticed you're just 6 months behind me in this ordeal so we are kind of going through this early aftercare stage at the same time. Did you have the hypo fractionated radiation? I did. I still get tired spells, but that is probably mild depression. Wouldn't think it would still be from radiation.

Ingerp

jessie have you tried yoga? I definitely had restricted mobility in my shoulder on my surgery/rads side but I'm back to where I was pre-surgery thanks to gentle yoga several times a week.

jessie123

Ingerp --- I do want to start yoga -- a friend of mine started years ago and is limber as can be now. However, I'd rather start with an in home video. Do you know of a good "do it yourself" video? My physical therapist is doing mostly limbering type stuff and it has really helped. I should have been doing this even before BC.

Ingerp

I've always gone to a class but my husband does a video on Amazon Prime (although it's kind of high-level!). Really you can just look on youtube for "gentle yoga" or "morning yoga" or "restorative yoga" and find a video that's a length you like. Even 15-20 minutes several times a week will help. I'm not crazy into it but have been doing it for six years now and feel like it'll really help me as I age. I also really like the mental part--it absolutely helped me when I was going through testing/diagnosis/treatment. And my rads techs complimented me on my shoulder mobility when they were setting me up to get zapped!

jessie123

Thanks Ingerp --- I know that it will really help a lot --- When I was working I was much more agile --- since retirement I've been "not so active" I'll try you tube. Thanks again.

Ingerp

jessie I’d recommend you start out gently—just a few times a week—and vary the videos you’re doing. Every instructor has something a little different to share with you. And *do* try to make that time your own. Escaping whatever else is going on in your life is half the reason to do it.